Talk:Dacha

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[edit] Some correctives should be made

1. Between "dacha" as a land given by tsar an dacha as a source of potato there was a period (approx. second half of 19 cent. and the beginning of 20 cent.) when dacha was summer vacation house (often leased, not posessed) for middle and upper-middle class. (For example, in Chekhov's Cherry garden, garden was chopped to build such dachas.)

2. Dachas in Soviet time as houses for officials, science and cultural figures appears in 1930s (or even 1920s) (in a well-known dachas place such as Nikolina Gora, Peredelkino, etc.). And that was NOT a potato field.

3. Don't be so focused on potato. I think that using of word "vegetables" are more correct (of course, most of them are potato, but also carrot, cabbage, sometimes onion or beet).

4. In 1960s-1970s dachniks are not only planting vegetables, but also fruit trees and bushes (apples, currants, cherries (in souther regions)) and some frame cultures (cucumbers, tomatoes sometimes paprika). Also norms and restrictions for buildings in dacha (e. g. size of the house limitations, second stage prohibitions) were slighly soften, so buildings on dachas were slightly growing, too.

5. Term May Day should be replaced with May holidays i. e. May Day (1st-2nd of May) and V-E day (9th of May).

6. Terms to go for potatoes and to go to fields can be used in sense named here only ironically. Really they were used to denote another activity: obligatory work of intellectuals (scientists, high school teachers (and students), clerks, also militia (police) and soldiers) on collective farms to crop vegetables. (M. Zadornov, the satirist, wrote that "kartoshka" is the time when farmers help scientists to crop potato.)

7. Another widespread term denoting dacha is "fazenda" (Russian: фазенда). It was adopted from soap opera Escrava Isaura (which was the first soap opera shown in the USSR). In Portuguese it means large farm, and russians used it for ironical nomination of their 600-square meters dachas.

8. I've never heard about such cellars (in Moscow). Really useful method for store sack of potato is on the balcony until outside temperature became negative, then near the balcony door (where the temperature is lower than in other places of flat. Of course, garages can be also used, but almost every of that time garages has no heating so they can't be used when temperature is really negative.

9. I have never heard phrase садоводческое общество. Really it is called садоводческое товарищество (Gardener's association).

10. When we wrote about post-Soviet dachas it's wrong to separate them into only two groups: oligarchs dachas (it is really their houses, not only summer houses) and dachas like the classic Soviet dachas are wrong. Because dachas are absolutely unprofitable for peoples who can go to dacha only on weekends and vacation (due to transport losses) i. e. for all full-time workers, 600m²-dachas (dachas of middle class especially) were used not for vegetables and fruits growing, but for pleasure. So, rows of vegetables are changed to lawn (very small and funny lawn with area like 35m²), flowers and other decorative plants; house is often enlarged or rebuilt with bricks or thick wood, so it can be used in May and September; and time for activities like planting, weeding and watering is diminished, but time for rest, sport, barbecue, or even celebration something with guests invited is increased.

You do know what you are talking about. Why not just add all this information to the article yourself? If someone disagrees with anything you add, they will surely let you know.—Ëzhiki (erinaceus amurensis) 01:45, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
A lot of this information is correct. I will be adding it. --GoOdCoNtEnT 22:56, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

""Because dachas are absolutely unprofitable for peoples who can go to dacha only on weekends and vacation (due to transport losses) i. e. for all full-time workers, 600m²-dachas (dachas of middle class especially) were used not for vegetables and fruits growing, but for pleasure.""

- Yes It is right for Moscow ad other big sities such as S.-Petersburg, Omsk amd others there the people ownes "Datcha" quite far from their sity flat (in 50 - 70 km outside the sity) but complettly wrong if we speak about small townes and countryside. In the last areas the "datscha" is located not far than in 10 km from the place there the family is normally living - so the transportation costs are very small even they are coming down till the "zero" if the people are using bicycles or even the "datcha" is located in such a small distance from the town flat to be reached on foot. Other reason that the people in provinces are stilling to use the "datcha" for agricultural production (potato, vegetables) that the wages level in the most of Russia exept Moscow and some big Cities is very low so if the people could produce some food (in fact that 600 - 1000 sq. m "Datscha" area could provide such patato and vegetables quantity which is enough to provide with food the family of 3 - 5 persones) for their own they could save a lot of money in order to buy clothes or industrial goods or for childre's education. So the using of "Datscha" for agricultural production is stilling actual in Russia today. Even more some people of small towns are renting some land araes (from farmers and kolective farms) of 400 - 1000 sq. m (4 - 10 "sotka", "sotka" means 100 sq. m) for agricultural seasons in order to produce potato for own consumption (not for sale as the price for potato in the season is extrimely low in countryside ad small towns). There a lot of farmers in Russia regions which are specialized in the business based on a such rent-operations.
// With greetings Alexey Silakow, 23 October 2006, 14.08 Moscow time.

"The annual process of potato harvesting (and sometimes planting) is a significant..." Don't you think that the phrase in parenthesises is unneeded since harvesting cannot be done without planting, also it's been discussed a paragraph before when it was about cultivating the soil. I suggest to remove it. Efenstor

[edit] Some more additions need

As said above, another synonym of dacha is the fazenda. But I'd like to add one more thing: приусадебное хозяйство, pri'usadebnoye khozyajstvo, better translation is near-manor farm - as contrasting for collective farms. There was the soviet magazine with such name.

And... I think, it's need to say about confrontation (or may be... local war) between 'dachniks' and villagers. In most cases villagers are hate them (first of all because of... envy)

pri'usadebnoye khozyajstvo is not a dacha. It's small private farm (some rows of vegetables, chickens, several goats, sheep, maybe cow) ownen by villagers. This term is sometimes associated with dachas only because the mentioned magazine (with articles about e. g. beekeeping) is an only (and very popular by this cause) source of information on agriculture for dacniks.--213.247.213.207 16:26, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Neutrality

This page has to be corrected to become more neutral. At this point, this article uses false, and/or uncited information to overestimate the poverty in Russia.

Here are some examples that I found:

  • Most dachas are ill-equipped, having no bathroom facilities and indoor plumbing systems.
  • Due to poverty and the lack of good equipment, even relatively large plots of ground are often cultivated manually using a spade or a hayfork.
  • Russians still prefer to grow vegetables themselves because of the excessive use of agrochemicals and low quality of the vegetables sold through markets and stores.

Please change or at least cite this information. --GoOdCoNtEnT 21:18, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

The naivery of the user is so funny that even sad. `'mikka (t) 07:06, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

The neutrality warning was removed due to corrections. --GoOdCoNtEnT 16:47, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] False and confusing

This article has many false and confusing statements. Here are some:

  • The word sotka (Russian: сотка) is commonly used to express the size of a lot on which dacha is built.
  • The dacha plots (usually not more than 600 m²) are too small to grow the needed amount of vegetables.
  • During summer, and especially the planting and the harvest seasons, elektrichkas are often so filled with dachniks that it becomes hard to breathe inside the cars and even the cars' sliding doors can hardly be closed.

Some of these statements also disturb the neutrality of this article.

Please correct those statements. --GoOdCoNtEnT 21:22, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

The naivety of the user is so funny that even sad. `'mikka (t) 07:07, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

I am talking about how funny itis you find everyday Russian life of most Russian population unbelievable. Believe me, the article is all truth (although not whole truth). But I agree it is bad that the article is unreferenced. `'mikka (t) 18:51, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
I am Russian and I know a lot about the Russian life. However, some things are very exaggarated. The dacha plots aren't that small, many dachas do have bathroom facilities (although some rural ones do not), Russians prefer to grow vegetables as a hobby or because its cheaper rather because of the vegetables in the stores are of bad quality. Also, many Russians own tractors to plow a large portion of land. And wait, first the author said that "Russian dachas are very small" then he says that "Russians have to manually plow a huge piece of land." --GoOdCoNtEnT 00:56, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
I suggest you to try and manually plow 600sq.m. You may start from 50 sq.m. `'mikka (t) 22:40, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
What's wrong? It's hard, but doable. I've personally performed this excercise several times (50..200 sq.m.) and still alive. --jno 07:26, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
Can you imagine a real tractor operating on 600m2? While 400..600m2 is a normal size of soviet-times dacha lot (and, hence, nowaday too!). Well, motorized tools are becoming more common last years. But if you look outside the Moscow region, you may see even simpler dachas (of "saray" type) on manually handled land. Plus, "elektrichka" is often better than any car - just because of traffic jams in weekends. And I really cannot realize how these statements can disturb the neutrality... --jno 12:50, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
In some places of rural Russia, land is very cheap so people have very big areas for dachas. I am not arguing that elektrickas are not used; they are good method of transporation. However, I disagree that they are that crowded up. Sometimes, you have to stand instead of sit, but they tend to clear up fast. Then, the word sotka is used incorrectly in the context of this article. --GoOdCoNtEnT 02:13, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
Yes, there were places with cheap land (relative to the income of those population), and some people could got a big pices of land (and even more could take some land just illegaly - quite common practice). I have personal experience of using elektrichka for 8 years (living in suburbs). I was lucky enough to live near depot and being able to get to an empty train. But I'd insist on the level of filling of that trains (they are not all electrically driven, btw) in peak time! Sometimes people was unable even to get out of the train at the stop they need... Of course, the "fill level" depends on the season (summer is the worst time), day of week (weekend is "peak time"), time of day (morning and evening are obviously "peak time" too). The word "sotka" is used to measure dacha size (I cannot estimate its relevancy). --jno 11:53, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

I am removing the Neutrality warning from the page; but I will still edit the page a little to make it more balanced. --GoOdCoNtEnT 00:49, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dacha Image

To GoOdCoNtEnT: I believe the image of "a typical Russian rural wooden dacha" that you posted in this article is not dacha but rather a typical peasant's house that can be seen in villages throughout European Russia. There are instances when people intentionally purchase houses in villages and use them as dachas. These however are isolated cases. I suggest this image be replaced with something more appropriate for its caption. 75.3.27.253 15:04, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
Thanks, I have added that fact to the page. I have also changed the caption for the image. --GoOdCoNtEnT 16:46, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
Well, one may see my former dacha here :-)
Along with the whole set of another REAL dachas.
Well, these are my own photos, but building were not the objects of shot :-) --jno 14:16, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Conflicts?

Conflicts sometimes exist between villagers and dachnikis

Yes, they do. Just like conflicts between habitants of two neibour villages. Or between villagers and towners. Or whatever else... I aint sure we need this statement here. --jno 14:06, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Yes, they do. But they are still more frequent between temporary and permanent residents. The villagers believe that the dachnikis are "rich urban folk" and frequently dislike them for it. --GoOdCoNtEnT 15:33, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
You're right. But I still not sure to list this condition in the article. This does not directly relate to "dacha" itself. Moreover, in case of "pure dacha village" (which is the rule!), there are just no villagers to conflict :-) --jno 16:29, 12 July 2006 (UTC)


Some villages have been fully transformed into dacha settlements.

Never heard of that ever hapenning...unless a village consists of a couple of houses. Totally unsupported claim. 75.3.27.110 16:55, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Yes, it happens. Smaller villages have their residents either die and emigrate, and dachnikis buy the no-longer occupated houses from their relatives. The village from where my ancestors were from is now 90%+ seasonal residents. --GoOdCoNtEnT 17:08, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
BTW, there are reversal processes too: some old, well established dasha settelments are now occupied all over the year. Partly, at least. --jno 07:38, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
You win this debate. Do the corrections as you wish. --GoOdCoNtEnT 15:33, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
Done :-) --jno 08:42, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What does "Sotka" means

My friends. The meaning of "sotka" is very simple. The word of "sotka" (Rus: "Сотка")is derivative of other Russian word of "Sotnya" (Rus: "Сотня") which means a hundred. So "sotka" is a hundred sq. m of area (1 sotka = 100 sq. m). A standard Datcha area is 6 "Sotka"s (Rus: "Шесть соток")which means 600 sq. m. So the Europian equivalent of "sotka" is Are. 1 "Sotka" = 1 Are = 100 sq. m.

//Alexey Silakov, 23 October 2006, 16:56 Moscow Time.

[edit] Strange Placement

That bit about the Dacha Band, does it really belong where it occurs? it really breaks the flow of the history section to have what appears to be a promo blurb for a not-so-well-known band appear. It doesn't fit in the place it appears, and, to be honest, seems to be given an exceptional prominence for what appears to me to be a relatively trivial detail. (Sorry if the Dacha Band is very well known to everyone but me and I am missing the historical import of this statement.) 128.164.107.161 17:49, 26 April 2007 (UTC)


To provide context for my post above:

The first dachas in Russia began to appear during the reign of Peter the Great. Initially they were small estates in the country, which were given to loyal vassals by the Tsar. In archaic Russian, the word dacha means something given.

Pioneering musicians from England have recently reclaimed the 'dacha' title. The Dacha Band are prolific musicians who create music as if it were a diary or a novel from their very own dacha in Leicestershire.

During the Age of Enlightenment, Russian aristocracy used their dachas for social and cultural gatherings, which were usually accompanied by masquerade balls and fireworks displays. The Industrial Revolution saw a rapid growth of the urban population and increasing desire of the urban residents to escape, at least temporarily, heavily polluted cities. By the end of the 19th century, the dacha became a favorite summer retreat for the upper and middle classes of the Russian society.

Does the Dacha Band really belong between Peter the Great and the Age of Enlightenment? And does it merit a paragraph of its own?

I would have figured it was simply a self-serving promo placed in the article by a band member, but it has survived several edits, so, apparently, others have not found a problem with it. But, even assuming they merit an entire paragraph, do they need to be mentioned in such a counterintuitive location?

128.164.107.161 17:53, 26 April 2007 (UTC)


Decided to be conservative. I moved the Dacha Band to the end of the history section, where at least it makes sense. I leave it to others to decide if the Dacha Band is of historical import enough to be retained. (My knowledge of current music is insufficient to judge their merit.) At least the new location makes more sense and the Dacha Band paragraph does not break up the flow of the article as much as it did previously. (Still sounds a bit grandiose for a band of which I have never heard, but, as I said, others can judge that.) 128.164.107.161 18:04, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

I have to agree that the Dacha Band paragraph and link is clearly an example of (self-)promotion/advertising — a violation of the WP:NOT#SOAPBOX policy. Based on article history it looks like it was first introduced 9 April 2007 by User:Ambanbury whose sole contributions seem to revolve around the very same subject. I'm afraid, based on these findings I find myself compelled to remove the fragment in question. --jibun≈παντα ρει≈ (keskustele!) 04:31, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Go for potatoes is partly wrong

The expression "to go for potatoes" appeared in Soviet times when city office workers by order had to help collective farmers with harvesting . This was unpleasant but memorable. With the end of this practice "dachniki" started to use the phrase ironically, but now it's getting obsolete, because only actually 45+ people remember about it.

I agree. I've never heard the term myself, and I'm very involved in my family's dacha.

[edit] This article could use a lot of help

I think a non-Russian would get a really bad image of a dacha from this article. Transportation isn't as terrible as it appears, and neither is the dacha always so far away. It also seems like potatos are the main, if not only, thing that is grown. The dacha that I so happily call my second home grows many things, from lilies to pears to cats. And I strongly recommend that a gallery be put in this article, it would help tremendously.