Talk:Da Weasel
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Pc13, calling you out. Why did you not justify and just say 'Da Weasel rapcore? Please.'. At least I tried to convey my point and still do. Hear Rage Against the Machine and then hear tás na boa for example. It is obvious Da Weasel main influences (at least before Virgul came) were and still are rock and rap, not hip-hop...
- By your phrasing, I assume you're not aware that rapping is an integral part of hip-hop culture. You seem to believe that Da Weasel is a rapcore band on the basis of the radio singles, hence your mention of "Tás na Boa". However, if you listen to the entire albums Re-definições and Podes fugir...', you will find that most of the songs ("Sigue Sigue", "Mata-me de novo", "Entra e representa") do not feature elements from nu-metal or hard rock, but rely heavily on traditional hip-hop and Caribbean rhythms such as reggae, dub and ragga. Even going back to the older "Adivinha Quem Voltou", in Iniciação a uma Vida Banal, it is clear that they are a hip-hop band with rock influences, in the same vibe of Public Enemy or Run-DMC. Even 3.º Capítulo was a pure hip-hop album. However, in spite of the brief dabbling with a heavier guitar sound in some tracks of Podes fugir..., Re-definições shows that Da Weasel are evolving in the same direction North-American hip-hop is going, incorporating more elements from Jamaican music. You even admit that Virgul changed the band's overall sound. Not only that, after seeing your personal page, it becomes clear you just want to change the page so you can justify liking Da Weasel and disliking hip-hop. --Pc13 14:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
- I wont even refer to the last comment because it is totally disrespectufull. You dont know me, so dont act as if you do. Moving forward. Yes I do acknowledge that rap is one of the four elements of hip hop. Then waht do you have to say about Bomboca(Morde a Bala) which is indeed from the new album, Re-definições, and is pure rock music? I am positive there are more but I dont have the cd here now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by PALOL (talk • contribs)
- "Bomboca" is a 33-second interlude without any vocals, not an actual song (a problem that the album suffers a lot of). A better example would have been "Loja (Canção do Carocho)". But that's an exception, there are more predominant examples of afro-centric ("Re-tratamento", "Força" and "Despertar") and pop ("Casa" and "Bicho") elements, with traditional sample-based hip-hop reinforced by the presence of "GTA", "Baile" and "Joaninha". In rapcore, or numetal, rock guitar riffs are predominant, with hip-hop elements as secondary, while with Da Weasel, hip-hop is predominant (with rapping in nearly all tracks), and guitars are merely the instrument of choice in a few specific tracks. You may have noticed that Fred Durst, Kid Rock, Zack de la Rocha and Chaz Bennington either don't rap, or their rapping (which is closer to the screaming and screeching more associated with metal) doesn't have the smooth rhyming flow one would normally associate with traditional hip-hop, a flow which Pacman does use. Compare it to other Portuguese MCs, such as D-Mars (Micro), Fuse (Dealema), Sam The Kid or Presto (Mind Da Gap). And if you don't want me to criticize your motives, don't leave all those userboxes lying around. Because you don't like hip-hop, you're trying really hard to explain why Da Weasel aren't hip-hop. But you've admited Virgul changed the style of the band, and the article already mentions that they started out like a Portuguese version of Cypress Hill, and after Virgul joined, the band's direction moved into a different sound. So, to finish off, why are you insisting on the rapcore, when it is clear in their third, fifth and sixth albums, that they've departed into a different direction, incorporating a more diverse range of influences. --Pc13 23:20, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
- What is not obvious to me is why you keep insisting that you know me. You do not know if I do or do not like Da weasel. Just because I dont like some metal bands doesn't mean I don't like metal. Also, changing the definition of the band here would never influence me because this is just what people think they are, not what the actually are. My motives are to perfect wikipedia, while yours seem to be to win arguments by making stupid acusations. Then I propose it to change it to 'hip hop band with inicially mainly rock influences, and mainly ska and carribean music influences after virgul's coming to the band'.--PALOL
- Well, if you don't like Da Weasel, I don't know what you can expect to contribute to the article, nor your interest in pursuing a point that is easily refutable. I don't like Blind Zero, Madredeus or D'zrt, so I don't touch articles on these bands. The Da Weasel article already mentions the main influences in the introductory paragraph, and already establishes the style evolution concerning the entry of Virgul to the band and the adoption of afro-caribbean rhythms in the middle of the article. You're just cluttering the page with minutia, with your insistence that the importance of rock to the band's sound be stressed on prejudice of ska and reggae. --Pc13 11:32, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
- You are no less than unbelivable. So are articles only to be made by people that agree with the ideas, or that like the bands? Then, you must recognize that Wikipedia would stop being impartial ... On prejudice? Excuse me, if I want to be precise and inform readers that altough originally a rap rock band the band was gone to more ska and reggae rhytms(which are not even mentioned) since the coming of Virgul.--PALOL
- Don't be ridiculous, mate. If I don't like certain music, I don't listen to it. And if I don't listen to it, I don't know enough about it to be able to right about it. "Write what you know" is a rule every writer lives by, and since I get paid to write, I found out early on it's a very important rule. But your biggest problem doesn't seem to be writing, it seems to be reading. After all, you didn't even make it to the third paragraph, where it was written, "She was replaced by Virgul, a rapper/singer which introduced a few ragga and afro elements to the band's sound", or to the fifth paragraph, "Da Weasel's work now blended influences from hip-hop, heavy metal, reggae and african music". You also seem to be missing the point of an introduction, which is to synthesize information to a point where you get a short explanation on what the text is about, without going into too much detail. --Pc13 17:13, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
- Ridiculous? Maybe that's why you are so short-sighted. I dont agree with nazi ideals BUT I had to read about them before I could say I did not agree with them. I dont like many hip hop musicians, but I had to heard to them BEFORE I could say this. (I won't answer to your insults). So you are saying for us to sacrifice precision so we can have short introductions? Please explain to me why you are so keen on not writing 'hip hop band with inicially mainly rock influences, and mainly ska and carribean music influences after virgul's coming to the band'.--[[User:PALOL|PALOL]
- Thin skin, have we? Introductions are short. Precision is in the expanded article. The expanded article can't fit into the introduction. What you need to know is already there in the text, if you'd care to read it, which you still have to do. To be honest, the intro could stick to "they're a hip-hop band" period, and not even mention the influences at all. If you want to know about influences, keep reading. In order to write about Virgul in the intro, you have to explain who Virgul is, but then you're talking about Virgul without any context, and not giving a quick explanation on who Da Weasel are. --Pc13 19:33, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
- No, your just as unrespectuful as ignorant. No, it is not, else we would not be arguing.
- Thin skin, have we? Introductions are short. Precision is in the expanded article. The expanded article can't fit into the introduction. What you need to know is already there in the text, if you'd care to read it, which you still have to do. To be honest, the intro could stick to "they're a hip-hop band" period, and not even mention the influences at all. If you want to know about influences, keep reading. In order to write about Virgul in the intro, you have to explain who Virgul is, but then you're talking about Virgul without any context, and not giving a quick explanation on who Da Weasel are. --Pc13 19:33, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
- Ridiculous? Maybe that's why you are so short-sighted. I dont agree with nazi ideals BUT I had to read about them before I could say I did not agree with them. I dont like many hip hop musicians, but I had to heard to them BEFORE I could say this. (I won't answer to your insults). So you are saying for us to sacrifice precision so we can have short introductions? Please explain to me why you are so keen on not writing 'hip hop band with inicially mainly rock influences, and mainly ska and carribean music influences after virgul's coming to the band'.--[[User:PALOL|PALOL]
- Don't be ridiculous, mate. If I don't like certain music, I don't listen to it. And if I don't listen to it, I don't know enough about it to be able to right about it. "Write what you know" is a rule every writer lives by, and since I get paid to write, I found out early on it's a very important rule. But your biggest problem doesn't seem to be writing, it seems to be reading. After all, you didn't even make it to the third paragraph, where it was written, "She was replaced by Virgul, a rapper/singer which introduced a few ragga and afro elements to the band's sound", or to the fifth paragraph, "Da Weasel's work now blended influences from hip-hop, heavy metal, reggae and african music". You also seem to be missing the point of an introduction, which is to synthesize information to a point where you get a short explanation on what the text is about, without going into too much detail. --Pc13 17:13, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
- You are no less than unbelivable. So are articles only to be made by people that agree with the ideas, or that like the bands? Then, you must recognize that Wikipedia would stop being impartial ... On prejudice? Excuse me, if I want to be precise and inform readers that altough originally a rap rock band the band was gone to more ska and reggae rhytms(which are not even mentioned) since the coming of Virgul.--PALOL
- Well, if you don't like Da Weasel, I don't know what you can expect to contribute to the article, nor your interest in pursuing a point that is easily refutable. I don't like Blind Zero, Madredeus or D'zrt, so I don't touch articles on these bands. The Da Weasel article already mentions the main influences in the introductory paragraph, and already establishes the style evolution concerning the entry of Virgul to the band and the adoption of afro-caribbean rhythms in the middle of the article. You're just cluttering the page with minutia, with your insistence that the importance of rock to the band's sound be stressed on prejudice of ska and reggae. --Pc13 11:32, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
- What is not obvious to me is why you keep insisting that you know me. You do not know if I do or do not like Da weasel. Just because I dont like some metal bands doesn't mean I don't like metal. Also, changing the definition of the band here would never influence me because this is just what people think they are, not what the actually are. My motives are to perfect wikipedia, while yours seem to be to win arguments by making stupid acusations. Then I propose it to change it to 'hip hop band with inicially mainly rock influences, and mainly ska and carribean music influences after virgul's coming to the band'.--PALOL
- "Bomboca" is a 33-second interlude without any vocals, not an actual song (a problem that the album suffers a lot of). A better example would have been "Loja (Canção do Carocho)". But that's an exception, there are more predominant examples of afro-centric ("Re-tratamento", "Força" and "Despertar") and pop ("Casa" and "Bicho") elements, with traditional sample-based hip-hop reinforced by the presence of "GTA", "Baile" and "Joaninha". In rapcore, or numetal, rock guitar riffs are predominant, with hip-hop elements as secondary, while with Da Weasel, hip-hop is predominant (with rapping in nearly all tracks), and guitars are merely the instrument of choice in a few specific tracks. You may have noticed that Fred Durst, Kid Rock, Zack de la Rocha and Chaz Bennington either don't rap, or their rapping (which is closer to the screaming and screeching more associated with metal) doesn't have the smooth rhyming flow one would normally associate with traditional hip-hop, a flow which Pacman does use. Compare it to other Portuguese MCs, such as D-Mars (Micro), Fuse (Dealema), Sam The Kid or Presto (Mind Da Gap). And if you don't want me to criticize your motives, don't leave all those userboxes lying around. Because you don't like hip-hop, you're trying really hard to explain why Da Weasel aren't hip-hop. But you've admited Virgul changed the style of the band, and the article already mentions that they started out like a Portuguese version of Cypress Hill, and after Virgul joined, the band's direction moved into a different sound. So, to finish off, why are you insisting on the rapcore, when it is clear in their third, fifth and sixth albums, that they've departed into a different direction, incorporating a more diverse range of influences. --Pc13 23:20, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
- I wont even refer to the last comment because it is totally disrespectufull. You dont know me, so dont act as if you do. Moving forward. Yes I do acknowledge that rap is one of the four elements of hip hop. Then waht do you have to say about Bomboca(Morde a Bala) which is indeed from the new album, Re-definições, and is pure rock music? I am positive there are more but I dont have the cd here now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by PALOL (talk • contribs)
