User talk:D4g0thur/WIP

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[edit] Purpose of this page

As it seems quite likely that this article will be deleted in its AfD, I have transferred the article's content over to here where it can be improved.

The main problems with the article as it stands are:

  1. A lack of information regarding the encyclopaedic value of the topic; and,
    • To solve this we need to find some research about the subject (which, I'm lead to believe) is available.
  2. A lack of references for the entries.
    • Easily solved - only add entries which you can find sources for.

If we can solve these two major issues then the article should be able to stand up against any AfD nominations in the future as most arguments against it are on the grounds of containing original research, failing verifiability or being unencyclopaedic.

If you want to look at the songs that used to be in the list, it is still in the history of this page (see here).

PS I've already found out that "Turning Japanese" by The Vapors is not about masturbation (see this interview with the band).

Thanks for your help. D4g0thur 16:48, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Update: The article will no longer be a list; it will be an exploration of masturbation in music with a short list as part of it. D4g0thur 16:01, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: "Turning Japanese"

Good sleuthing. I would say that it still deserves very prominent mention, as a "false positive", because of the very widespread belief that it is about masturbation. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 16:15, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

I had thought about this, and also about including Relax by Frankie Goes to Hollywood which apparently had some controversy related to this. D4g0thur 12:12, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A few more

Good idea, despite the AfD; needs expansion. Some additional entries to include are "Dancing with Myself" by Billy Idol and that Green Day song the title of which I misremember ("Bite my lip and close my eyes / Take me away to paradise"...), has "view" in the title I think. "My Sharona" by The Knack (which is about a man's penis) might contain relevant lines as well. Another one almost comes to mind (someone did it at karaoke last night), but I just woke up and my mind is a little fuzzy right now. One way to keep this away from AfD might be to remove entries that simply mention masturbation (and this might then exclude "My Sharona") and limit it to those that focus on wanking, like "I Touch Myself", "Dancing with Myself" and the Green Day song (which appears to be about pretty much nothing but some guy beating off all the time because he's bored in a boring town with nothing else to do). — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 15:59, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

PS: If mutual masturbation is included, "Don't Mess with My Toot-toot" would qualify. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 16:00, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes, definately don't include songs which only mention masturbation, but any that are about it are welcome (if we can find a source obviously). Thanks for your help, this will be a lot easier not having to do it all myself. D4g0thur 12:14, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sources

I think the principal AfD problem, with regard to the original version, is that while the current sources (some with questionable authority - citing the original album liner notes would be better) provide references for the lyrics, some are subtle enough that the WP article itself asserting that they are about masturbation is original research. It strikes me as very likely that magazine and newspapers, especially from the Tipper Gore/RIAA labelling debate era, are going to be good sources for the fact that the songs' content is sexual in nature. I do recall there being some mild controversy over "She Bop" and "I Touch Myself" for instance, though I think few on the Censorious Right side ever realized what "Dancing with Myself" was about. Anyway, the point being that 1980s print journalism sources are probably the best bet. The periodical index and microfiche collection at the local library may be of great help in this regard, though a few of such articles might actually be findable online in some way. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 16:07, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

The main problem in the AfD was that the article didn't have any sources. Now that there are sources for the songs being about masturbation, that shouldn't be a problem. You're probably right about citing for the lyrics, but I don't know where we could find a reliable source... most lyrics sites probably wouldn't be considered reliable. In regards to 80's articles, I do have access to my university's online databases which may well include something like that - I'll look into it. D4g0thur 12:10, 26 July 2007 (UTC)