Talk:Döner kebab
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Döner is a german invention. It was a young turkey in berlin who inveted the Döner Kebab. Normaly you ust say Döner ( Doener)
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Discussions here have repeatedly involved the same arguments and views.
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Please do not edit archived pages. If you want to react to a statement made in an archived discussion, please make a new header on THIS page. Baristarim 00:49, 22 November 2006 (UTC) Archives: |
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[edit] Comments
[edit] Doner Kebab is non-European?
the article states that: "Also of note is the fact that employees of döner kebab stands (along with those of Indian restaurants) are among the most visible non-Asian, non-European immigrants in Japan."
in the context of the current will-Turkey-join-the-debate this is intresting; Turkey is either in Europe, Asia or both. For sure it's not both non-European and non-Asian. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.194.87.163 (talk) 17:08, 11 January 2007 (UTC).
- Couldn't it be considered middle eastern instead ? The borders between Europe, Asia, Africa and the less defined areas where they meet vary depending on who you are talking to, and in which context. --86.144.20.95 (talk) 22:47, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] merge with "shawarma"?
Could this article be merged with the one entitled "shawarma"? I think these are basically two different terms for the same thing.
Maybe the other way round. The name doner kebap is much more well known that shawarma.
No. Merging is what is getting so many people confused about donairs. I am sick of telling people about halifax donairs and they say "oh, they are just the same as a gyro" which they arent. I dont need them confusing them with shwarmas when i am trying to explain what they are. Gyros and shwarmas look and taste completley different from a donair. Donairs deserve their own article. --Dallin Tanjo22 22:41, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
Shawermas, gyros and doner kebabs are most definitely not the same. I grew up eating shawermas in the Middle East (Gulf), have had plenty of gyros after having moved to the U.S., and doner kebabs a few times here too. Besides the fact that these three types of food really originate from, and are most prevalent in, distinct geographical areas (the Middle East/Arabian Gulf/Egypt, Greece and Turkey resp.), they also taste different. In the case of shawermas, tahina (sauce) is always added, and in the case of gyros, tzatziki (sauce)! Both of these sauces result in different tastes. I don't know if doner kebabs have any sauce on them. Plus, the bread that is used for shawermas (khubs) is completely different from that used for gyros.
In addition, it is exactly articles like these, on topics that might have some overlap yet have significant distinct aspects, that should have a place in encyclopedias, as specific details of each topic are disseminated, and of course discussed. We should leave these articles as they are. Idunno271828 05:56, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
Merging the articles for Doner kebab and Shawarma would make as much sense as merging the articles for Tzatziki and Raita... or Chop suey and Ragout... or Dog and Wolf. In other words, it would make no sense at all! Two similar things, even two literally related things, are not the same thing. Having a 'see also' in each article linking to the other is a much better idea than simply mashing the two articles together. -the Jack (not logged in) 69.183.237.60 23:48, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
Don't merge. These two items are (perhaps) related but most definitely quite different. It is surprising that anyone suggested they could be considered the same. If these two were combined, a whole host of other Greek, Turkish, Israeli and Middle-Eastern dishes would logically also have to feature on the same page. David-Freya (talk) 22:16, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
I grew up in Saudi and Ankara and I agree they aren't the same. However, the fact that both articles use the exact same picture probably doesn't help emphasize that fact. slatkin —Preceding comment was added at 00:48, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Rating for WPTR
Rated as start class becuase the article lacks inline citations, even though it is quite long in length A question to everyone who believes the articles in question should be merged...have you eaten an authentic lebanese shawarma,turkish doner kabab & greek gyro?? if you have you'll have the common sense & the taste buds to realize that they are NOT the same...the only thing vaguely similar about them is the way they're processed...the ingredients they use to marinate the meat is different,the pita/khubz(bread) they're wrapped/pocketed in is different,the spread they use on the bread is different & the accompaniements are different...so please give them their own articles like they rightly deserve...in case you're wondering,this from someone who's grown up eating lebanese shawarmas in the mid-east,turkish doner kebaps in the U.K & having tried greek gyros on the streets of n.y.c. 82.148.96.68 19:09, 16 July 2007 (UTC)82.148.96.68 19:11, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:D%C3%B6ner_kebab"
[edit] See also: Food poisoning?
Am I the only person wondering about the link to an article about food poisoning in the links after the döner kebab article? I fail to see why kebabs and food poisoning are linked and why that link doesn't appear in other fast food articles of other origins. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.242.204.164 (talk) 22:31, 18 February 2007 (UTC).
- In popular culture in the UK, kebabs are heavily linked to food poisoning, but I have no idea if there is any statistical basis to it, or it is just an urban legend type thing. --86.144.20.95 (talk) 22:49, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
I am proud to admit that I have suffered food poisoning on at least 7 separate occasions after consuming a donner kebab at my local kebabary, Food Station. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.5.57.221 (talk) 21:17, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Denizz
Why are you removing information? Artaxiad 22:33, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
First, why do we need an Armenian name here, which probably means again something related to rotating. We get 5 google hits, 4 related to dance, one something from some Armenian forum. Google hits are not everything but getting just one hit is something, no need to even talk about that that hit comes from a forum/blog (?) of "a group of diasporan Armenians recording their experiences of life in Armenia", it appears in a message posted by Ara at. I wonder who Raffi K. is.
We have three articles on bout the same thing. Do you positively know that this khorovad is döner but not gyros or shawarma, or not something different from them? The part in the history section refers to the next sentence (your addition needs to be grammatically fixed as well). Does this Denham guy refer to it as khorovad? Please give references, and do not revert anymore. denizTC 03:48, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
- I reverted, that version sounds like this: "Doner kebap (donsdhfl etc) .. is the name given to an Armenian dish made of ..." - that doesn't sound right. This is the article about Doner kebab, not something else, people are free to start something else, like gyros or shwarma.. Baristarim 20:08, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
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- A quick Web check shows that khorovadz isn't döner at all; it is any roast meat on skewers, more like shish kebab. So you are right to remove it. On the other hand, I still think that döner kebab, shawarma, and gyros should be unified in one article: even the name shawarma (cevirme) is Turkish, and gyros is just a fairly recent calque of döner. But alas the Turkish chauvinists, the Arab chauvinists, the Greek chauvinists, et al. all agree they should be separate articles. Sigh. --Macrakis 20:55, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
I think the T, A, G chauvinists are not that much to blame there. In many towns in US, there are both shawarma and gyros restaurants, and the shawarma and gyros offered there are different, since they are done by different people, and these 'cook's are usually Greek, Turkish or Arab, and they prepare shawarma/gyros in a way similar to the other 'cook's from their country of origin. So, gyros' sandwiches are similar to other gyros sandwiches, likewise shawarmas are similar to other shawarmas. Gyros and shawarma differ from each other in US, and this is English wikipedia, 'invaded' by Americans. Doner is not so much known in US, I think. denizTC 15:12, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
- Yes, usually Greeks call the product "gyros", Arabs and Israelis call it "shawarma", and Turks call it "doner", and yes, there is quite a bit of variety in the preparation of the meat, the condiments used, and the type of bread. The basic similarity remains, and indeed the variants seem to have as much to do with local tastes as with the name; then there is free variation. So Muhammad's shawarma in Detroit may be more like Dimitri's gyros in Detroit and Orhan's doner in Lyon than it is like Fariq's shawarma in Cairo. --Macrakis 16:02, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Awful introducton
It is a bit strange to start with a comparison of doner with shawarma, gyros etc. Especially where there are pages dedicated to both. This awkward situation seems to be resulting from "Diasporic" edits.
"Döner Kebab around the world section" is another story. As soon as possible, I will introduce information about "tartiflette" around the world. "Tartiflette in Japan", "Tartiflette in Russia".. Or "sushi in Turkey", "sushi in England", "sushi in Luxembourg".
And what is this??? "Today, döner kebab is typically served as a kind of sandwich in pita (flat bread)(in Europe?! In its home country, it is served in bread (with tomato, onion, pepper) or with RICE). The döner kebab with salad and sauce served in pita, which is predominant in Germany and the rest of the world (following Turkey, I suppose), was invented in Berlin-Kreuzberg in 1971 (those who wrote this phrase here should have invented it!!!), because the original preparation was not appealing enough to the German taste (Germany went to a referandum and voted on the topic.."original preparation" (who knows what has been meant here) is not appealing to us! Oki doki). The döner has been the most popular fast food dish in Germany since the 1980s." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Z y (talk • contribs) 22:39, 30 April 2007 (UTC).
A few minutes ago, I learnt that shish taouk is a Syrian/Lebanese Kebap..I should go and sleep..We are in Wikipedia. Everything is possible here :) --Z y 22:55, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Kebap is not Doner
In the intro, it says "Döner Kebab (as döner kebap in Turkish and often simply kebap, döner, doner or donner)". However, 'kebap' in Turkish is not the same as Doner. It refers to a wide range of dishes, including Doner.
- Yes, but people incorrectly refer to this as kebab as well. Why, just the other day, I ordered the completely wrong thing at an unfamiliar shop just yesterday. 66.109.195.106 19:18, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
A question to everyone who believes the articles in question should be merged...have you eaten an authentic lebanese shawarma,turkish doner kabab & greek gyro?? if you have you'll have the common sense & the taste buds to realize that they are NOT the same...the only thing vaguely similar about them is the way they're processed...the ingredients they use to marinate the meat is different,the pita/khubz(bread) they're wrapped/pocketed in is different,the spread they use on the bread is different & the accompaniements are different...so please give them their own articles like they rightly deserve...in case you're wondering,this from someone who's grown up eating lebanese shawarmas in the mid-east,turkish doner kebaps in the U.K & having tried greek gyros on the streets of n.y.c. 82.148.96.68 19:09, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Halifax Donair
A Donair and a doner-kebab are two ENTIRELY different things. I simply can't understand why "Donair" or "Halifax Donair" redirects me to this article. At the moment, I have absolutely no interest in doner-kebabs or gyros... I am specifically looking for information pertaining to Donairs. PLEASE, give the Halifax Donair it's own article, and just leave it be.
142.68.48.17 09:15, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
- Agreed. While similar, a donair is definitely not a 'döner kebab', and it is lost in the pointless largeness of this article. Anyone in Canada or the US trying to find out what a donair is would be very confused after reading this article (despite this article's claims, donair is hard to find outside of Nova Scotia. Very few people outside of this province have ever heard of it). It's like clumping 'pizza' into the 'pie' article. Please create a Halifax Donair article. --Marshmello 00:58, 27 August 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Marshmello (talk • contribs)
[edit] merger and a new article?
Should we create a new article about Doner in different countries? That section is quite unstable, it occupies a big space, and it is not particularly necessary here (a summary with {{main}} to the actual article should be enough). Also is there anyone here who is against the merger? I am in favor of merging, but I don't mind so much keeping them separate. DenizTC 20:37, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
- Any thoughts? DenizTC 23:30, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
- Anyone against this? DenizTC 21:09, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
The merger mentioned above was about merging döner kebab, gyros and shawarma. DenizTC 16:30, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Citation needed?
"The meat used for making döner kebabs may be lamb, beef, veal or chicken, but never pork[citation needed]" Why is a citation needed? If it's about the pork then it's simply because Muslims (e.g. Turks) may not eat pork.217.232.248.78 (talk) 16:22, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
- Turks may eat pork, but muslims not. And because nearly every turk is a muslim..
- In Turkey and Germany there are even food laws wich define what can be called döner. In both lands it states that you can never use any Pork in it. But.... there are several cases of Döner stands in Germany using pork and beef mixed... and those where run by turks. But well.. you will find as***les everywhere, right? --78.51.65.38 (talk) 02:32, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
- I can't say I'm a big fan of pork döner. Jared Preston (talk) 22:51, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Doner kebab around the world
Doner kebab is one of those dishes that is available EVERYWHERE and varies from region to region due to regional tastes. A previous version of the article reflected this, whereas this current article focuses on the German variant, with little more than a footnote to the original Turkish version.
Doner is a very popular dish in the UK, and in my experience tastes notably different from the also-delicious German doner kebab. The chilli sauce served with a British doner is different, as well.
I can second that comment. Not only is the meat different (with more texture and a different taste) but so is the surrounding bread. Exile (talk)
Also... the diaresis (umlaut)... whilst this is required for the correct pronunciation in German, in the English language wikipedia it should only be used when discussing the German variant, and should not be in the article title. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.107.182.109 (talk) 22:47, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
