Template talk:Cyrillic alphabet navbox

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[edit] E-grave and I-grave

For some reason my browser does not display two letters - E_grave and I_grave. I wonder why only those two letters. Also I am just curious which Slavic languages use them. --rydel 13:05, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I think the default Windows installation is missing fonts that contain these characters. I have a Mac; does someone know better? The template specifies Lucida Grande, Arial Unicode MS and Lucida Sans Unicode fonts which should work. I think at least one of those gets installed with MS Office.
Download Code 2000 font. It's free, and includes characters a huge number of languages. Other good I18N font pointers are at Wood's site.
Which languages? Good question. If I can't find a reference, I'll remove these from the navbox.
—Michael Z. 13:54, 2004 Nov 15 (UTC)

Added these letters back because they already have their articles.--Octra Bond 08:13, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

I think the only reason that e-grave and i-grave have their own articles is that they were directly included in Unicode. There is no essential difference between these two and a-grave, o-grave and more than 30 other accented Cyrillic vowels used in Serbian, Church Slavonic, Russian (большáя часть = a large part, бóльшая часть = the largest part) etc. E-grave and i-grave are just the most frequent cases. -- Kcmamu 15:04, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Table formatting

I'm replacing class="toccolours" with inline styles. The combination of border-collapse plus padding, plus border made parts of the border disappear in Safari. I hope it still looks as intended in your browser. —Michael Z. 2005-02-1 17:44 Z

[edit] New additions

I came from Chinese wikipedia and I have added five alphabets, Әә, Өө, Үү, Һһ, Ӏ, in the navbox there. (See zh:Я) Would you like to add them into English wikipedia as well? Besides, I have uploaded Image:Cyrillic letter Schwa.png on Commons Wikipedia. Feel free to use.--Hello World! 06:38, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Placement of Gje and Kje in table

In the master image for this template, and in the Cyrillic alphabet article, and in the Macedonian alphabet article, Gje does not appear directly after Ge, and Kje does not appear directly after Ka. (In Macedonian, Gje is after De, and in the master Cyrillic list, it appears after Dje, which doesn't appear in Macedonian. For Kje, the preceding characters are Te and Tshe, respectively.) When I asked about this on the Talk:Macedonian_alphabet page, Bjankuloski06en responded with a note on my talk page confirming the order reported on the Macedonian and Cyrillic page, so I'm reporting the issue here. I'm hesitant to make the edit myself because a) I'm very much a newbie at Wikipedia markup, and b) I figured that altering a template, which will propagate across a wide variety of articles, is probably a reasonably major deal. In any case, if one of you who watches this item could either make the change (or reject it with an explanation as to why the table should remain inconsistent with the primary Cyrillic alphabet article) that would be much appreciated. Thanks! Rmharman 17:18, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kildin Sami language

Shouldn't the missing letters of the Kildin Sami language (such as Ҍ nd Ӭ) be added to this template? --190.48.98.19 15:14, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

All letters were added by me.--Octra Bond 08:11, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New characters from Unicode 5.1

There are some articles about letters that have been added in Unicode 5.1: Qa (Cyrillic), Lha (Cyrillic), El with Hook, Reversed Ze, Komi Nje, Ha with Hook, Ghe with Stroke and hook, Komi De. Also there are letters that have no articles about (you can see them in Cyrillic_characters_in_Unicode), but they are not represented in the Template. Shouldn't this letters be added into the Template? ОйЛ (OiL) (talk) 21:26, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Certainly many of the new characters should be added, and the table adjusted for the new recommendations in 5.1 (example, the usage of digraph and vertical uk). Red links are okay, since they will encourage new article creation. I would leave out the CS superscript letters, since they are formal variations of normal letters, and probably should be discussed in Early Cyrillic alphabet.
Note that to my knowledge there still isn't any font available which supports all of the new letters, nor are they fully supported in the Windows and Mac OS. (On the Mac they seem to display, but combining properties, etc. don't work.) I discourage changes which make anything worse in existing browsers and OS's. More info at wikt:Appendix:Old Cyrillic alphabet and wikt:Appendix talk:Old Cyrillic alphabet. —Michael Z. 2008-05-06 22:02 z


I am happy to have redlinks, but not characters that don't display. A template full of red question marks looks rather stupid. BalkanFever 00:51, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
Agreed, at least until there is free font support for most of the characters in question.
FYI: I see question marks for absent characters in Firefox, and just blanks in Safari. Once Apple updates the OS for Unicode 5.1, I should see the Last Resort font placeholder characters instead. —Michael Z. 2008-05-07 01:17 z
Ah, OK. If you look in the template history you'll see all the code points were added, but I made a blanket revert. If you think we should include the one's that show up (links and redlinks) then by all means go ahead. :) BalkanFever 01:48, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
I wasn't aware of that. I suppose if there is an article, we'd better be prepared to link to it from here.
I'd like to see some info about available fonts before too many of these get added (I can currently only see some of the letters in the articles linked above by ОйЛ). This information should be added somewhere convenient, and probably linked from the bottom of the template. —Michael Z. 2008-05-07 01:59 z
From this version, I can see everything above the "Mordvin letters" title, and everything below (including the Mordvin letter) is a question mark, whether it has an article or not. This is with Firefox and Vista. What about you? BalkanFever 02:09, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
The Cyrillic Extension-B A bloc have been already added in the last edition of Code2000 font. ОйЛ (OiL) (talk) 03:10, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
I updated my Code2000 font before I had a look, and I see all of the letters. Those are in Cyrillic Extended-A; I don't know of any font that supports Cyrillic Extended-B yet.
I'd prefer not to see the layout of the box fragmented into so many little sections, and it doesn't make sense to have separate sections for some languages but not others. However, just a single non-Slavic section is getting a bit bloated. Is there a sensible way of dividing it by language families? —Michael Z. 2008-05-07 21:36 z
Cyrillic alphabet variants and Languages using Cyrillic might help. BalkanFever 09:12, 8 May 2008 (UTC)