Talk:Cypress Village, Oakland, California

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This article was nominated for deletion on 25 February 2008. The result of the discussion was Keep.

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[edit] Relevance of cypress structure / mandela parkway

The sources describe the impact of the cypress freeway on the neighborhood, and some on the cypress village housing complex specifically. The decision to re-route the freeway and construct the Mandela Parkway is a significant issue there, also sourced, in the context of "environmental racism" as it affects poor formerly segregated neighborhoods. Whether you call it a neighborhood or a housing division, it's a several square block project. Wikidemo (talk) 00:52, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm curious what you mean by "formerly segregated", and whether that is supposed to apply to this housing development. Hard to see where there was much change in that regard, from pre-earthquake to Mandela Parkway. How are things better now? Or did you actually mean "formerly separated"? The former Cypress structure did divide that neighborhood pretty decisively. +ILike2BeAnonymous (talk) 02:00, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Oh, probably a misguided attempt on my part to be PC. I didn't want to call it a "poor black" neighborhood because even if that's true, using the term is sometimes controversial. When it was built it was officially segregated. Only African Americans were supposed to live there, and they weren't supposed to live other places. Reading through some of the google books, there were lots of blacks moving into Oakland during and just after the war, and the city planners thought that mixed neighborhoods would cause strained race relations. Hence, several projects that were officially segregated. Some others, like the Acorn, were not segregated - at one time there were some poor whites too but I guess they moved out. When it came time to build the Cypress Freeway, no surprise that it was an ugly inconvenient structure (when viewed from underneath) that cut through the black part of town. The books also support what you say, that the physical separation from the freeway caused the two sides to drift apart, also that the noise and pollution drove everyone out who could get out. After the 1989 earthquake the initial idea was to rebuild all the destroyed freeways, but as happened elsewhere there was a move to replace them with more neighborhood-friendly surface streets. The jury's out on what good if any that did for the hood but it was a step forward that they tried, planting a park in the median. So I guess "formerly segregated" just means that people are trying to make things better, whether they succeed or not. Personally I know almost nothing about the subject. I drove down the Mandela Parkway a couple times just after it was finished, and it does look a little more cheerful than other places. But you could say that about Cypress Village too, physically it doesn't look bad driving by. I really can't get a handle on all this but somewhere in there is an interesting, encyclopedic story on race, culture, and urban development in West Oakland. After we get rid of all the sockpuppet weirdness in the articles we may find that it's best to have a merged article about all of these projects because they all tell a different aspect of that same story. Wikidemo (talk) 02:24, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Your ignorance of the history of that area is just astounding. All of West Oakland, including that little patch where this housing project is, was once the place where well-to-do white people (primarily Italian and German immigrants, with some other ethnicities as well) had their homes. Just another of many reasons why this "encyclopedia-that-any-idiot-can-edit" is doomed to failure. The neighborhood was segregated in exactly the opposite sense that you've stated above.

Since you apparently live in the Bay Area, a trip to the history room in the main Oakland public library might be in order, if you're truly interested in the history of this area. +ILike2BeAnonymous (talk) 04:14, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Attempted censorship of this page: I will consider any attempts to remove this discussion as vandalism, not subject to 3RR. Object to what is said here if you like, but do not censor this discussion. +ILike2BeAnonymous (talk) 06:50, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

You can consider it what you want but it's not up to you, and removing a personal attack is not vandalism. You have contentiously added a personal attack on me three times now, after a previous incivility and contentious editing in support of the sockpuppets. I have asked you to retract the above comment on your talk page here, and also mentioned it on the AN/I report here). Other than being uncivil, you are calling me "ignorant" and an "idiot" for saying something that matches the published sources cited in the article. Wikidemo (talk) 07:15, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

I stand by what I wrote. If you feel compelled to make this an administrative matter, be my guest (though I would say that this appears to be a misuse of that process, but hey, it's your call).

I'm just curious if you're prepared to address the substance of what I wrote regarding West Oakland history here, or if you intend to continue to make yourself out to be the victim of some vicious attack. For my part, I'd like to get back to the topic of this article. +ILike2BeAnonymous (talk) 17:56, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

There is no point discussing anything with someone who calls me an idiot. Since you would rather spew insults than look up the sources for my supposedly ignorant statement that when Cypress Village was built it was officially segregated: from The Second Gold Rush (cited in the article): "[in post-war era]...Oakland housing officials claimed that the influx of southern whites had necessitated segregated projects...In response, the housing authority opened four all-black projects in west Oakland, including Bayview Villa, Cypress Village, Magnolia Manor, and Willow Manor Dorms. Corresponding all-white projects..." Now will you please retract the statements that I am ignorant and an idiot, and be civil in the future? This is not the first time you have pulled this on this article. Wikidemo (talk) 19:42, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Suggested guide for inclusion of Oakland neighborhoods

Since there's an ongoing dispute over several articles about Oakland neighborhoods and whether these articles (mostly about very small areas, or in some cases about housing projects), I'd like to propose a guide for which entities should be considered valid for inclusion as neighborhoods.

The Oakland Museum of California has a very nice web page that lets one browse a map of the city and look at neighborhoods and districts. (Caution: requires Flash.) I'd like to suggest that since this map has been compiled by an eminently reputable source, the Museum, that it can serve as a pretty good guide to whether a neighborhood in Oakland actually exists and should be included here. +ILike2BeAnonymous (talk) 06:51, 28 February 2008 (UTC)