Talk:Cymdeithas yr Iaith Gymraeg

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This is almost entirely ripped from the http://cymdeithas.com/ website as extremely biased towards Welsh nationalism - in my experience Welsh is at the most a secondary language and is not used day-to-day in most of Wales, bar a few communities. (unsigned comment from User:82.71.17.57)

in my experience Welsh is at the most a secondary language and is not used day-to-day in most of Wales, bar a few communities.
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Welsh_Language_Society"
The above is clearly a very ignorant comment to make - nowehere in the article is it claimed that Welsh is a majority language. However, to say it is spoken in 'just a few communities' is ignorant in the extreme. Clearly, you have little understanding of the subject, and Welsh IS used day-to-day in Wales, in communities, in the media, and in government. If you do not realise this you either are not from Wales, or live in a cave. (and I did not write the article by the way). (unsigned comment from 81.110.93.3)
It also depends where in Wales you are. I barely heard any Welsh being spoken when I was a student in Swansea, but I heard lots when I was on holiday around Caernarfon. Thryduulf 12:42, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
The author of the top comment is obviously very confused - CYIG (Cymdeithas Yr Iaith Gymraeg)is a movement that was formed to campaign for the WELSH LANGUAGE not for independence or any type of "nationalism". CYIG has no ties with any political party, and therefore cannot in any way be biased to "Welsh nationalism" as s/he suggests. I also agree with the rest of the comments made by Thryduulf. (unsigned comment from User:Niall7890)

I have added the names of the originators to the various comments and indented them because I was getting confused! --Telsa (talk) 17:17, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Copyvio

The first comment on this talk page is all too accurate in one respect: it is almost entirely ripped from the Cymdeithas site, specifically the What is Cymdeithas page, and there is no sign that we have any permission to do this. I don't think that changing "we" to "they" absolves us from this. Examples:

  • society's site: "...we believe in non-violent direct action, and in the course of our campaigns over a thousand people have appeared before the courts for their part in these campaigns, many serving prison sentences. These campaigns have resulted in many gains for the language, including two Welsh language acts, bilingual road signs, and the establishing of S4C, the Welsh language television channel. We are a voluntary movement entirely dependent on the support of our members and supporters to run our campaigns."
  • current article: "Cymdeithas yr Iaith believes in non-violent direct action and in the course of their campaigns over a thousand people have appeared before the courts for their part in various campaigns, many receiving prison sentences. These campaigns have resulted in many gains for the language, including two Welsh language acts, bilingual road signs, and the establishing of S4C, the Welsh language television channel. "Cymdeithas" is a voluntary movement entirely dependent on its members and supporters to run its campaigns. Two full-time members of staff are employed at their head office in Aberystwyth, Ceredigion.
  • society's site: "Cymdeithas yr Iaith Gymraeg are campaigning for the language in many fields: education, media and culture, planning, local authorities. At present we are calling for a new Welsh Language Act which covers the many fields ignored by previous legislation passed in 1993: e.g. the private sector."
  • current article: "Cymdeithas yr Iaith Gymraeg are campaigning for the language in many fields: education, media and culture, planning, local authorities. At present they are calling for a new Welsh Language Act which covers the many fields ignored by previous legislation passed in 1993: e.g. telecommunications, the private sector. They have on occasions littered windows of shops that do not have Welsh or bilingual signs."

Ouch. I don't really want to list this on the copyvios page: the whole procedure is a hassle. But it definitely needs fixing. Or someone to get permission from the society, I suppose... --Telsa (talk) 17:17, 28 February 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Article title

The society refers to itself as "Cymdeithas yr Iaith Gymraeg" in English. If no one protests, I will move the article. --MacRusgail 22:36, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Strongly Object- Please read WP:NC which state that "article naming should give priority to what the majority of English speakers would most easily recognize, with a minimum level of ambiguity, while making linking easy and second nature". I heavily doubt that any monolingual native English speaker Without any prior knowledge of Welsh (Which make up the bulk of the English Wikipedia) would find this name "easily recognizable" and "second nature". --William Howard Hart 22:51, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Certain sections, particularly the one quoted below, read as if there is some deliberate defense of the society either by itself or by its members:

"The actions of the members are completely on their own accord and are in no way forced. The society shows determined actions against what they see is the criminal damage non-bilingual organizations are doing against the language and culture of Wales"

It reads like a press release or political statement. W gant 22:54, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Have worked on it a bit, removing some obviously biased stuff, and rephrasing some other bits as "they claim". Still not brilliantly happy with it, as the "they claim" bits are not generally sourced, though I didn't quite have the courage to just delete them entirely. — Alan✉ 13:57, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
Is this now enough to remove the POV tag? (Cleanup tag should almost certainly stay.) — Alan✉ 14:10, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
Even after your work, Alan, the explanation for the "this doesn't look neutral" complaints is that lots of the Wikipedia page is a WP:COPYVIO: it's still the Cymdeithas webpage, only with all the "we"s swapped to "they".
  • society website: "Cymdeithas yr Iaith Gymraeg (the Welsh Language Society) is a pressure group campaigning for the future of the Welsh language."
  • Wikipedia article: "Cymdeithas yr Iaith Gymraeg (The Welsh Language Society), often abbreviated to Cymdeithas or Cymdeithas yr Iaith) is a pressure group in Wales campaigning for the future of the Welsh language."
  • society website: "we believe in non-violent direct action, and in the course of our campaigns over a thousand people have appeared before the courts for their part in these campaigns, many serving prison sentences."
  • Wikipedia article: "Cymdeithas yr Iaith believes in non-violent direct action and in the course of their campaigns over a thousand people have appeared before the courts for their part in various campaigns, many receiving prison sentences."
  • society website: "The Welsh Language Act of 1993 declared that Welsh should be treated on the basis of equality with English. However this falls short of what is needed and we are calling for Welsh and English to be declared official languages in Wales. The lack of official status means that the Welsh language misses out on many crucial European grants."
  • Wikipedia article:"The Welsh Language Act of 1993 declared that Welsh should be treated on an equal basis with English, but Cymdeithas yr Iaith argue that this falls short of what is needed, and that the lack of official status means that the Welsh language misses out on many crucial European grants. They are calling for Welsh and English to be declared official languages in Wales."
This has been the case for - ahem - two years. According to the copyvio policy page, I should simply have deleted them on sight, or listed the whole page for deletion. It's also Wikipedia policy to delete anything unsourced, although, looking at most of Wikipedia, I realise that this is hard to credit :). So, Alan, you are quite within your rights to delete what you can't verify. Anyway, I shall try and help with the article in a week or two. Or rope in someone more knowledgeable to do it instead :)
Telsa (talk) 08:30, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, that would be great. — Alan✉ 16:33, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
This has the potential to be a really interesting article, and I'm surprised no one from Cymdeithas itself hasn't had a better crack at it (it's no better on the Welsh wiki either). I've tried adding some more text and a few references to what existed already, but I'm not that great at digging things up + appart from BBC and icWales articles covering a demo that's taken place, not a lot has been written in English about CYIG.--Rhyswynne (talk) 16:57, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
Don't see why we can't rely on sources in Welsh if needs be. — Alan✉ 13:05, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Dragons tongue?

Looks more like a mushroom to me. - 83.104.99.209 10:41, 3 August 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Unreferenced statement

This was an incorrect statement, with a fact flag since February. It could have been deleted then. The true figure is 14%, but it's irrelevant to the article. I also put in a citation for Tynged yr Iaith. . . .LinguisticDemographer 14:42, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Neutrality

Having read this article today 7/6/2008, I do belive that the Neutrality question has been solved. the recent corrections in my opinion have taken out any biast opinion.

If no one objects, then I shall remove the Neutrality Banner on August 1st.