Talk:Cut-up technique

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[edit] Literacy of hiphoppers

"Some have suggested these practices are a form of cut-ups, but most such musicians are probably unaware of Tzara, Burroughs or Gysin (DJ Spooky being an exception)." DJ Spooky is likely not the only literate and historically knowlegeable person in hip-hop or electronic music. Consider revision. unsigned comment by User:84.222.71.200, way back on 07:16, 14 February 2005

The implication is not that hip-hoppers are illiterate, but that their technique is derived from musical precedents (e.g. Jamaican sound systems & toasting, which had made their way to the Bronx by the late '70s), rather than from literary techniques. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 16:33, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

"Some have suggested these practices are a form of cut-ups, but most such musicians are probably unaware of Tzara, Burroughs or Gysin (DJ Spooky being an exception)." WTF wikipedia.... source this with existing or original research and it can stay, otherwise this serves only as a great example of the glib and unprofessional nature of many wikipedia articles.

[edit] Found poetry

Does 'found poetry' merit a definition of its own? It differs specifically from cut-up in that the material in the latter may be exclusively generated by the producer of the new work, whilst in the former it is more generally a manipulation of the original work of other artists.

[edit] Being for the Benefit of Mr. Kite

Would the solo from The Beatles' "Being for the Benefit of Mr. Kite" fit into this category, or does it have to do only with words (they cut recordings of the instrument into irregular lengths, threw them into the air, and taped them back together at random, not even checking to see if they were forwards or backwards)?

An interesting idea. I see no reason why cut-up technique or its originators would have frowned on such a process, so add a mention if you feel up for it. sjc
More likely that The Beatles and/or George Martin were influenced by musique concrete which has been around almost as long as tape recorders have been available. For all I know, musique concrete was influenced by Tzara's earlier methods, but doesn't necessarily have anything to do with beat generation cut-up technique. On the other hand, the practitioners of musique concrete and cut-ups may have been fully aware of each other. But it seems simpler to to trace such developments in psychedelic music, electronic music, hip-hop, etc. to earlier musical experiments (e.g. musique concrete) moreso than literary experiments. Gyrofrog

[edit] Computerized randomization

I've read "compositions" by computer programs that formed random sentences, based on existing texts. The program developers (and some reviewers) said that the results had a flavor similar to (or at least amusingly reminiscent of) the originals. Can we mention this in the article, or link to a new article describing the computer technique? --Ed Poor

The article is still fairly short, so more material isn't a problem. computer-generated cut-ups are extensions of the original premise perhaps. Is Mr Kite cut-up, or Cubomania? For that matter, is Cubomania a type of cut-up? - Tarquin 07:04 Jul 31, 2002 (PDT)
I'm not sure how to answer this question. In cubomania, an image is cut into a number of equal-sized squares, which are then rearragned, automatically or at random, into the same size as the original image. But I don't know if it would be defined as a "cut-up" or no. --Daniel C. Boyer 15:48, 6 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Markov chaining is one of the programmable techniques used to produce the type of compositions mentioned. So far as I understand it, this involves recording the frequency of different word (or character) adjacencies and then randomly reproducing a text with the same or similar frequencies.
More or less. It uses the frequencies of word adjacencies and then randomly selects words based on the preceding word using the recorded frequencies as probabilities. The results can be pretty funny. — Gwalla | Talk 23:01, 6 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Record stores

"DJs may spend hours in record stores [...]"

The way to find unique music, just like with clothes, is thrift stores. I remember an interview with buck65 where he mentioned not wanting to re-release his old shit since he liked that feeling of being in a thrift-store, flipping through dusty lp's, and finding something really underground. I would also say finding cool stuff to add to your music/wuddeva occurs more just from intaking loads and loads of art, (it's only possible for those that live and breath it). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Seas (talk • contribs) 08:19, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] this page should be renamed cut-up method as was the term used by its originators

[edit] Claims Tzara incited a riot

The article claims "Tristan Tzara offered to create a poem on the spot by pulling words at random from a hat. A riot ensued and André Breton expelled Tzara from the movement." Is there any citation for this? The claim was made by Burroughs several times but, while Tzara was involved in several riots, I've not seen any evidence that Tzara's random poetry was the cause of any of them. Thanks!

[edit] Why WPVA

Why is this article considered "within the scope of WikiProject Visual art?" "Cut-up technique" seems to involve literature and music, not Visual art. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bus stop (talk • contribs).

The bot probably did all the techniques in the Surrealist techniques category. --sparkitTALK 23:10, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
Yup, that's a good explanation. I'm removing the tag. Planetneutral 23:27, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
The Cut Up is visual . correctopiumjones 23 (talk) 01:38, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Literary Influences

Is now blank~............... needs some work re Burroughs novels and other writers. Who will help?

porridge moved correctly to music


opiumjones 23 (talk) 01:10, 15 December 2007 (UTC)