Talk:Current senior Australian Defence Organisation personnel
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This article was nominated for deletion on 26 May 2008. The result of the discussion was keep. |
[edit] Title
The title of this article is a bit vauge and doesn't make it clear what the article is about. I'd suggest that it be moved to something like List of current senior Australian Defence Organisation personnel or similar. Thoughts? --Nick Dowling (talk) 10:32, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
- Jeez, that's a bugger. I thought it was clear from the opening sentences. Obviously not!!!
- Now you're making me think.
- Obviously you're (at least) partially correct - that's not in dispute.
- So, the issues are: a) What else is the article doing / trying to do that isn't covered by "List of current senior Australian Defence Organisation personnel", and b) What does "Australian Defence Leaders" mean?
- Regarding a):
- Well, first of all, I had in mind to extend it to include "immediate past" and "already announced future" people, (but you wouldn't have known that!!)
- Second, Australian Defence Leaders is sort-of stolen from the Defence website page name, (viz: "Defence leaders: high profile senior personnel")
- Third, I don't like a page name that starts with "List of ... ", and this page is more than just a "list of"; the list is just one of the currently 9 secions.
- Regarding b): On reflection, yes, you're right, it is vague.
- So, if you want to change it to Current senior Australian Defence Organisation personnel or similar, I can live with that, but I have to admit I would prefer Current Australian Defence Leaders (but I'm not about to "die in a ditch" about it.)
- Hope that's useful. Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 11:08, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
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- Current senior Australian Defence Organisation personnel looks good to me, and you are right about this being more than a list. 'Defence leaders' strikes me as being jargon, and I've only ever seen the term used on Defence's website: everyone else talks about 'personnel' and the use of 'Defence' for both the ADF and DoD is confusing - the term is used differently by the media (who normally use 'Defence' to describe the department and 'Defence Force' for the uniformed military). I'll make the move. --Nick Dowling (talk) 11:26, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Missing positions
Where are the divisional commanders? Should be at least two more two-stars... Buckshot06 (talk) 12:08, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
- Yes, at least.
- The "Defence Leaders" page is far from comprehensive. (e.g. Matt Tripovich only got put up last week.)
- Feel free to add whatever you wish.
- BTW: Which divisional commanders did you have in mind? Pdfpdf (talk) 13:36, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
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- Presumably the commanders of the Army's two divisions - the 1st Division/Deployable Joint Force Headquarters (the Army's main deployable headquarters which oversees major operations and commands most the the regular Army during peacetime) and the 2nd Division (which commands most of the Army reserve, but isn't a deployable headquarters). The Navy and Air Force have some roughly comparable HQs. The Australian Government directory is a potentially good source for the current holders of these positions - Major General Ash Power CSC is the current commander of the DJFHQ [1] but the commander of the 2nd Div isn't listed at present. --Nick Dowling (talk) 12:15, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
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- Thanks Nick. (BTW: DJFHQ doesn't exist by that name any more.) Pdfpdf (talk) 13:56, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
- That's exactly the two two-stars I was thinking of. Pdfpdf, what is the new name for DJFHQ-L? Buckshot06 (talk) 06:12, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
- Thanks Nick. (BTW: DJFHQ doesn't exist by that name any more.) Pdfpdf (talk) 13:56, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
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I think I've got all the uniformed 3 stars, and with DEPSEC IS&IR, I think I now have all the SES Band 3 (except for the 3 general managers in DMO). But there are a number of 2 stars missing (e.g. Mark Evans (general), though he'll soon be a 3 star, and a number of unifomed people in DMO) and there are a heap of SES Band 2 missing. (I find it mildly amusing the "glamour girl" Liz Cosson is there, but almost none of her Defence Support Group 2 star colleagues!) Pdfpdf (talk) 14:15, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] DJFHQ
Thanks Nick. (BTW: DJFHQ doesn't exist by that name any more.) Pdfpdf (talk) 13:56, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
- That's exactly the two two-stars I was thinking of. Pdfpdf, what is the new name for DJFHQ-L? Buckshot06 (talk) 06:12, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
- I knew someone would ask! ;-) I'll check on Monday and post it on Monday night. Pdfpdf (talk) 12:12, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
- Are you sure? It's still listed as DJFHQ on the Government online directory: [2], but that's not always kept up to date. Nick Dowling (talk) 03:20, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
- One way or another, I will be on Monday night. :) There have been all sorts of goings on in Brisbane over the last year or so since they opened the new facility. Being some thousands of km from there, I haven't been keeping a close eye on the detail. I'll check it out tomorrow. Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 09:09, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
- Are you sure? It's still listed as DJFHQ on the Government online directory: [2], but that's not always kept up to date. Nick Dowling (talk) 03:20, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
- I knew someone would ask! ;-) I'll check on Monday and post it on Monday night. Pdfpdf (talk) 12:12, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
Well, well, well! The story is even more complicated than I realised.
DJFHQ does not belong to the single services; it belongs to HQJOC. (Pretty obvious when pointed out?) So we have DJFHQ-M, DJFHQ-L, & DJFHQ-A, which are HQJOC's deployed/deployable JOINT HQ for, as appropriate, predominately M, L or A operations.
HQ 1 Div is responsible for the RTS (raise, train, sustain) of 1 Div. However, in the days of HQAST and the early days of HQJOC, they had ONE (and only one) operational duty - when "requested" by HQJOC, they were responsible for standing up a DJFHQ for an operation that was predominately Land based.
Then, along came MAJGEN Richard Wilson and "the Wilson review", which recommended the formation of a co-located Joint HQ at (of all places) Bungendore, affectionately known as HQJOC(B). The path from HQJOC to HQJOC(B) was to be via HQJOC(T), the Transitional distributed HQ. When HQJOC(T) was stood up (in 1 Jan 2007 I think?), HQJOC(T) became responsible for standing up the DJFHQ, and HQ 1 Div went back to its purely RTS role. (Presumably the other single services were similarly affected.)
In theory, a great idea. In practice, it didn't work, because HQJOC(T) didn't have control of any resources with which to stand up a DJFHQ!!
Who had control of the resources? Well, the single services, didn't they!!
So guess what?
MAJGEN Richard Wilson is now in command of HQ 1 Div, and quite recently, HQ 1 Div once again have ONE (and only one) operational duty - when "requested" by HQJOC(T) [and presumably HQJOC(B) when stood up?], they are responsible for standing up a DJFHQ for any operation that is predominately Land based.
(I think the French have captured it nicely: "Plus ça change, plus le même chose".)
So, I have misled you. DJFHQ didn't change its name. The change was that the component commands were no longer responsible for standing up Deployable Joint Force HQs. But don't worry - it seems that everything is now "back to normal".
And "the Government online directory" seems to be very out-of-date.
