Talk:Cumberland Plateau

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[edit] comment

Is there any reason for not including {{Kentucky}} template on this article -- Obradović Goran (talk 9 July 2005 19:13 (UTC)

The Cumberland Plateau is a multi-state region, spanning Kentucky, Tennessee, and West Virginia. In my opinion, it is actively harmful to include {{Kentucky}}, {{Tennessee}}, and {{West Virginia}} in this article. How likely is a reader who is browsing here at the Cumberland Plateau will want to go to Shelby County, Kentucky? The state template wastes a lot of space to enable someone to do this in one click. As the article stands now, if someone wants to browse to another Kentucky article, they can go to Category:Kentucky geography and click from there.
Given that each state's template is just as large as the rest of the article, I believe that it is silly to have multiple state templates on this article.
--hike395 00:45, July 10, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] mostly V-shaped valleys

  • Inhabitants of eastern Kentucky and western West Virginia mostly live in very narrow V-shaped valleys with little bottom land. Buildings and roads built along the bottom of the valley are susceptible to floods, while any structures on the steep slopes are subject to slumping. Roads are serious engineering challenges, and expensive to maintain. There are few locations available for agriculture; most people make their livelihoods from mining, timbering, or services.

What is the source of this section? From my own experience in both of these areas I would say it is not true. -Crunchy Numbers 16:53, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't know where you were, but the only bottom land will be found in larger river valleys. Go to Google, chose "Maps" then search for Bluefield, West Virginia which is at the dividing line between the ridge and valley Appalachians and the Cumberland Plateau. Select hybred view so you can see the landforms. Use your curser to pull the image to the right (ie. scroll westward into the Plateau). You'll find nothing but v-shaped valleys and ridges, forests and coal mines. You won't find farm land in any quantity at all until you are far enough west to be off the Plateau in Kentucky. Pollinator 01:08, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
FYI: The phrase "I don’t know what you __, but –my opposing opinion stated as fact—" is usually an effective way to escalate a discussion into an argument.
Lets keep this polite and professional. The reason I questioned this section is it is in my opinion vague generalizations and most of all does not match what I have seen during years of driving, hiking, berry picking, hunting, canoeing, rock climbing, camping, etc. in the creek and river bottoms and highland pastures of Eastern Kentucky.
The Google maps link you mention with satellite photos shows that there are lots of wooded hills between the towns and farms. Saying that most people live in the narrow V-shaped valleys is the same as saying --most people in Indiana live on farms-- because most of Indiana is covered by huge farms. And in Nevada most people live out in the scrub brush covered dessert.
Satellite photos aren't the same as topographical maps and aren't the same as being there.
    • Inhabitants of eastern Kentucky and western West Virginia mostly live in very narrow V-shaped valleys with little bottom land.
Does mostly mean more than 51%? Where did you get this information? How many acres are considered little bottom land?
Agriculture refers to more than just huge farms run by corporations. I have seen a lot of pastures on sloping land in Eastern Kentucky that produce hay and are either cut and bailed or grazed by cattle. I have seen 5 to 200+ acre tobacco plots. I have seen corn fields along the many small river and creek bottoms. I have seen apple orchards. I have seen fields of millet and sorghum. Wouldn't the Department of Agriculture be a trusted source for this sort of thing?
    • Buildings and roads built along the bottom of the valley are susceptible to floods, while any structures on the steep slopes are subject to slumping.
This implies that all buildings are either susceptible to floods or slumping. Not true.
    • Roads are serious engineering challenges...
Some roads where extensive excavation or bridges are needed are expensive but certainly not a serious engineering challenge with the exception of The New River Gorge Bridge. There are trouble spots in some roads in the mountains where the hill tends to slip. You make it sound like 95% of the road surface is that way. Less than 1% would be my guess. Again, what is the source of your claims?
    • I don't know where you were...
Perhaps first you should explain where you were.
-Crunchy Numbers 20:30, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

--Removed the following from article due to lack of accuracy.

Though the plateau is not composed of true mountains (although that is the local name for them), and nowhere is very high, it has some of the most rugged terrain in the eastern United States. Inhabitants of eastern Kentucky and western West Virginia mostly live in very narrow V-shaped valleys with little bottom land. Buildings and roads built along the bottom of the valley are susceptible to floods, while any structures on the steep slopes are subject to slumping. Roads are serious engineering challenges, and expensive to maintain. There are few locations available for agriculture; most people make their livelihoods from mining, timbering, or services.

According to the article about mountains in the US if the base to summit height is over 1000 ft then it is a mountain. Black Mountain (Kentucky) is over 2500 ft from base to summit.-Crunchy Numbers 15:39, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
I agree that that paragraph is problematic. First, there's not really a strict standard as to what is or is not a mountain. Second, while that Cumberland Plateau does contain many steep and narrow (V-shaped) valleys, and few "bottomlands", it does have some large relatively flat areas on top. For example, Crossville and Jamestown, in Tennessee, are on top of the plateau on relatively flat land. Third, the region is not well suited for agriculture not just because of its sometimes rugged terrain, but also its relatively poor soil. Pfly 18:53, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] conventional vice totally formal?

  • Portions of the Allegheny Plateau illogically not included in the Cumberland are those along the same latitudes of the parts of West Virginia in Ohio, thus the term is imprecise and conventional vice totally formal and well defined—as is further evidenced by inclusion of West Virginia by both terms.
Does anyone know what this is supposed to mean? The word illogically as used here seems critical and not neutral. -Crunchy Numbers 20:33, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
And "..conventional vice formal.." -- had to think about that for a while before realizing it should be "versus", I think. The idea, I think, is that the "Cumberland Plateau" is not objectively different from the "Allegheny Plateau" and line dividing them is informal and based on popular usage rather than some obvious geological feature. I'll see if I can change it to say something to that effect. Pfly 00:01, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
Ok, tried a quick rewording.. out of time, will try to take a look later.. Pfly 00:13, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
Looks much, much better. What does it mean for a river to dominate a region? It seems like what you are trying to say is it is related to the region or it is the watershed area or drainage basin of the river.-Crunchy Numbers 03:11, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
Heh, I don't know.. couldn't think of a better word. Tried "centered on", but that's not really true. I guess I was just trying to say the rivers were relatively large and historically important.. but there are other rivers and watersheds in each region. I might say the plateaus were named for the rivers, but I don't know if that's true. So... "related to the region", somehow! Pfly 04:39, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Unreferenced tag

I did a little copyediting, putting the text into a couple more sections, and moved the unreferenced tag to the Geology section, as it seems to be the only part that it applies to. The rest of the article, as far as I can see, can be verified by the existing references links or by looking at any decent map. Myself, I don't know much about geology and wouldn't know how to reference the geologic claims. Pfly 21:21, 30 November 2006 (UTC)