Talk:Culture of Finland

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Contents 1 Old talk:stereotypes 2 Culture of Finland. 3 The article is not about culture 4 Largely True But Superficial 5 Rewrite 6 Reliable sources for "Russian influences" 7 Cultural aspects section of culture of finland 8 Genetics 9 Literature and Music Sections Images

[edit] Old talk:stereotypes

This page needs to be edited to take out whole-country stereotypes. Some of the statements seem quite biased and not culturally-aware.

This page definitely needs to be edited. It's mostly based on travelling-guide-type of stereotypes, and doesn't really tell anything about the CULTURE. The links only are not informative enough.

Finnish people aren't made of stone. The stereotypes are all wrong.

As a person livining in Finland for 16 years I can say that the claims in the article are totally true.

-As a finn i would say exactly those things about ourselves I was the author of this article. Howewer, I concur that the standard is not up to Oxford-level: It seems a bit juvenile and edgy, but nonetheless quite true.

-This was terrible. Especially after reading through the page about Japanese Popular Culture (which was an excellent page with loads of information, links, references...), I feel completely embarrassed that this is the image that perhaps thousands of foreigners get of Finland. It's full of stereotypes as has been pointed out, and it hardly provides any information about the culture, only some generalizations about Finns. I sure hope someone re-writes this, I am appalled, and hope the whole article was a joke to begin with.

[edit] Culture of Finland.

It is a generalizing article but definitely accurate. As a Finn I totally agree with its contents. Maybe there could be more links to some scientific articles for the more specific readers?

[edit] The article is not about culture

This is by far the worst article I have seen for quite a while. It seems as if it was written by someone who has no idea what the word culture means; there is no information whatsoever on Finnish culture, just ridiculous cliches about Finnish melancholy, "sisu", alcohol use, etc. I think the best thing one could do is to delete and rewrite from scratch.--AAikio 06:30, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Largely True But Superficial

- I have lived in Finland for over a year and I think that what has been written is largely true, but of course these generalizations don't apply to everyone. This article is pretty superficial - it could go a lot deeper. For instance, it could discuss cultural aspects like modern design; Alvar Aalto; Sibelius; sauna culture; summer cottage traditions; holiday traditions; the impact on the culture of long days in the summer/short days in the winter; government spending to support and promote Finnish artists; impact of the welfare state on society/individuals; health care system, successful rapid development of Finland from agrarian based economy to industrial/high tech economy. Regarding people, the article could talk more about why Finns are reserved among strangers; xeonophobia and low immigration; how to approach social or business dealings with Finns as a foreigner; how Finns have the capacity to be very warm after you get to know them and show genuine interest (rather than superficial interest or socialization); reserved pride in Finnish culture; relationship with Russia and Russians; among other things.

I'm glad that someone else comments on this as well; it seems that no one has really been paying attention to this article. As you say it is very superficial. The topics you listed should be covered, among other things. But I can't agree with you on that "what has been written is largely true". The main problem with the current version is that it based on someone's subjective impressions and stereotypes of what Finns are supposedly like. My impressions are not similar. But most important, this kind of writing breaks the Wikipedia policy of verifiable sources. Subjective impressions are not verifiable sources. Because of this, I still think most of the text should be simply deleted. (And also, please sign your comments, so it is easier for others to figure out where one comment ends and the next one starts) --AAikio 08:49, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rewrite

I gave the page a full rewrite, because I think we can all agree that the previous version essentially sucked. Now it's more or less in line with the way Culture of Sweden is. This one probably still could use some expansion, but at least now it's something that could conceivably be expanded.

[edit] Reliable sources for "Russian influences"

In travel guides and even in this article, there's the idea that Finnish culture is somehow a mixture of Swedish and Russian cultures. Obviously all are originally North European and as such, similar to each other, but this doesn't mean it's a mixture. It is not disputed that Finnish culture is indigenous and strongly affected by Swedish culture, but list the Russian influences and elaborate on them why they're Russian, not of Finnish origin. I want to see reliable sources (not travel guides or something else produced by Stetson's method, i.e. by pulling out of hat). (Also, please leave the "national identity" issue out. Nationalism as we know it wasn't even invented before the 1800's, so referring to the allegiances of the Finnish people toward pre-nationalist imperial monarchs is pointless. Finnish culture existed before and during the Swedish rule, starting from the fact that Finnish language was retained.) --Vuo 13:46, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

I hope I will not assault your clearly patriotic sentiments but I cannot refrain myself from commenting. The eastern Slavic and later Russian influences in Finland are clear and old and thorough although they should not be overly exaggerated. They start from e.g. the old capital's very name Turgu (Slavic for a market place) through the presence of a nationally recognized form of Christendom (the Orthodox Church) and end in e.g. the central architecture of the current capital (empire, in the style of St. Petersburg). To claim that mainland Finland somehow remained isolated from Slavic influeces seem a coarse denial of the situation. There's nothing special or wrong in foreign influences within current independent countries, every country has them. In Russia, the influeces are French, German, Greek (alphabet, religion), Finno-Ugric etc.etc. and there's nothing wrong with these. Finnish culture is of course fundamentally just that: It's first and foremost uniquely Finnish. People should really start feeling confident enough about this to allow a discussion from a wider perspective including a critical analysis without going in defence and denial modes. Clarifer 08:30, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cultural aspects section of culture of finland

I made major changes to this section to include historical facts. I would appreciate feedback on the content and format and welcome any suggestions. --spirit (talk) 06:51, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Do you mean the paragraph "historical aspects"? I changed some of the wordings and added {{Fact}}'s. Some of the content is way too straightforward and definitive. Combining China and Finns in one sentence seems truly naive. Silly isn't only to combine a 10000-20000 year old mutation with a contemporary ethnic group, silly is also to draw too direct lines between haplogroups and geography. Alone the point mutation giving haplogroup N seems to have occurred on 4 different occasions therefore rendering the origin of N3 far from explained. I think there's no need to duplicate a history of Finland as this is already part of the articles history of Finland, Finland and Finns for example. If a pararaph on history is needed it should concentrate on culture history and kept as short as is possible. Clarifer (talk) 19:55, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Genetics

Regarding this revert, if you see this [1] it is apparent that Kittles does not argue that Finns are "Eastern". --Vuo (talk) 19:08, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Literature and Music Sections Images

Hi there. Why was the Värttinä photo removed from the music section and the Johanna Sinisalo photo removed from the literature section? The edits summary states simply "duplicates" (see edit: 00:32, 18 April 2008 Turkuun). Peer Gynt (talk) 23:30, 27 May 2008 (UTC)