Talk:Cuba

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[edit] Resignation of Castro

Just a thought.. Should a current events tag go up?Cs302b (talk) 10:50, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, it still says he is the President/head of state. This obviously should be changed. --24.245.36.123 (talk) 23:56, 20 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Origin Of The Name? Found?

Not sure if I'm just being blind and missed it in the article... but when did the name change from Isla Juana (as Columbus named it) to Cuba? ie; What is the etymology of the word "Cuba"? -202.138.58.48 (talk) 09:45, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

OK, so with no answers here I operated on a hunch and found several published and online sources for possible etymology of the name; After a little searching on the Taino languages there were two distinct options;
1- (www.alfredcarrada.org/notes8.html)
CUBAO- CO/CU= terreno fertil(fertile land) BA= donde se encuentra, hay (where it is found, is) (A)O= abundancia (abundant)
2-(members.dandy.net/~orocobix/terms1.htm - but taken from "Clásicos de Puerto Rico, second edition, publisher, Ediciones Latinoamericanas. S.A., 1972" Compiled by Dr. Cayetano Coll y Toste of the "Real Academia de la Historia.")
COABANA - COA= place or site, BANA= great. (Shoulds also be noted that Sr Carrada has the Taino word Ku = sacred place)

I'm not sure how or where to put this information in, so thought I'd leave it here and anyone who is currently involved can place it where they see fit.58.179.175.155 (talk) 04:34, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Info Added211.26.245.142 (talk) 14:05, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Hey you morons! Well, first of all Cuba was never known in Europe by the name Santa Juana (Saint Johanne) in Spanish. Colombo gave that name to the island because he was suposedly in love by a woman calld Joana. Nameley D. Joana de Cuba, a Nobel Portuguese woman with a Spanish mother. She didn't love Colombo. And when Colombo returned from their expedition to the Americas, the woman in question was already married with an English nobel. The etymology of the word Cuba is even easier. Nobody knows the Nationality of Colombo but it is known that Colombo was a ilegitimate son of a Portuguese nobel from the Alentejo region. Nameley the count of the Alentejan city of Cuba. It is known that he live there as a child. Also, he went to the Portuguese crown ask permission to travel to India by the West. The Portuguese King, knowing the existance of the Americas, how far it is to travel to India even if there was a passage by the West, and especially knowing already it was easier to go to India surrounding Africa, The Portuguese King laugh at Colombo's idea. That's why Colombo went to sail to the Spanish King. Cuba, Alentejo, Portugal, the city of Colombo's childhood is the etymological root to Cuba in the Americans. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.180.163.30 (talk) 17:55, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Some problematic sentences in the Exodus section

I've removed this sentence fragment - ", which is primarily based on political dissent, coupled with the chronic failure of the present totalitarian regime to provide a minimum level of economic well-being, " describing the reasons for Cuban exodus, because the particular claims in it are somewhat opinionated. Is there a more neutral way we can write this or some information that can be added that would balance the picture? I've also removed the sentence " these escapes are often daring and most ingenious.[1][2]", as it wasn't supported by the references - they are news stories about specific attempts, and using them to support the idea of Cuban emigration as daring or ingenious constitutes synthesis. Natalie (talk) 03:02, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanx for the fix. I couldn't tell if it was vandalism or just real POV. Trekphiler (talk) 15:05, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Deletion of last paragraph in 'US-Cuba relations' section

I have deleted this paragraph for four reasons: 1) It is written in very poor English, such that I cannot properly understand it even after two read-throughs. 2) It is strongly POV. 3) It appears to be principally about music, and not US-Cuba relations. 4) The style is not appropriate to Wikipedia. Tobycek (talk) 00:14, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] pronunciation!?!?!?!

How are you suppose to pronounce this??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.113.157.145 (talk) 17:17, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

-uːbə. See Wiktionary:Cuba Nigholith (talk) 14:55, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] F.Castro's Resignation

Is Castro's resignation effective immediately? or only upon his successor's assumption of office? We should keep him listed as President until we're certain. GoodDay (talk) 14:07, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree. All the reports I've seen state that he has announced he will not seek re-appointment when his current term expires on February 24th. He is currently still President - and his brother has already been Acting President for quite some time. TharkunColl (talk) 15:57, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cuban Motto Translation...

Patria or Muerte should be translated as "Motherland" or Death , as it is a Femenine word... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Razvandj (talk • contribs) 16:07, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Merriam-Webster's Compact Spanish-English Dictionary translates "Patria" as "Native Land". I see your argument in that it is, indeed, a femenine noun. However, the spanish word is dervived from the identical Latin word, which in turn was derived from the Latin word "Pater", meaning father.68.191.11.28 (talk) 03:07, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
It's a pretty common misconception to assume that all Spanish words that end in "a" are feminine, but this is a gross oversimplification. And just because a word is feminine doesn't mean that it can't refer to a man, or a masculine concept. "La persona", a feminine word, does not only refer to women, for example. I sincerely doubt that any fluent Spanish speak would translate Patria as Motherland. Natalie (talk) 22:41, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

The misconception is not applicable in this case. Patria is LA patria. It's feminine. That said, I deferred to common usage and left "Fatherland or Death" alone. I did correct an error in that footnote, though. Albertod4 (talk) 03:58, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Uh, read all of my comment. I also noted that just because a word is feminine that means that it has to refer to a female or a feminine word in English. Numerous words that are classified as feminine in Spanish are classified either as masculine or neutral in English. The gender of the word doesn't reflect the gender of the subject in any way. Natalie (talk) 07:08, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

You moron! I only read the first guy. he is really stupid!!! A Pátria (Feminine). A Terra (The land. Also, feminine). A Pátria is just as feminine as a terra. But pátria derives from the Latin. It is the conjunction pater+ia=patria; Pater being Father and ia being land. So it can only be translated to English as THE FATHERLAND you moron! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.180.163.30 (talk) 18:43, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Incongruity in reporting of the Maine Incident

The following point seems to be wrong in one of two places.

"On 15 February the Maine was blown up in Havana harbour, killing 266 men. Forces in the U.S. blamed the Spanish for blowing up the Maine.

Those skeptical of the U.S. accusations were suspicious because the most important officers were at a party on shore. There were 81 foreigners and 82 black seamen among the 25 officers and 318 enlisted killed." Assuming one of the numbers is correct either 266 men were killed or 318 were killed; this quotation claims both. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.32.126.12 (talk) 12:10, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The return of El Jigue

EJ has made a couple of postings here today (which have since been deleted). Has his ban been lifted? GoodDay (talk) 16:57, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

No, his ban was permanent. However, because he uses an IP address instead of a user account, the IP address was not blocked indefinitely. I have reblocked it for six months, and if he returns when that block expires it will be blocked again. As a banned user, he is not allowed to participate in any way, which is why I reverted his edits. Natalie (talk) 16:59, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Just checking. GoodDay (talk) 17:28, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Actually, on that note I think I'm going to archive some of this old discussion. Anything that hasn't has a new comment for several months is probably dead. Natalie (talk) 17:32, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The Battleship Maine

"The U.S. battleship Maine, the largest Navy ship built in an American shipyard" Perhaps it should say "the largest Navy ship at the time"? Or perhaps the modern US battleships are smaller or being built in a shipyard outside the US? Just wondereing... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.167.96.195 (talk) 01:30, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] General POV Problems

Two major problems i have with the Cuba page are: the one-sidedness of the human rights section, it is clearly in support of the Cuban exiles in Miami. This is clearly reflecting an American stand-point that infers Cuba as a dictatorship with one collective will, that of the Castro brothers. Maybe too many Americans are confused between Cuba, the nation, and Guantanamo Bay, which is inside Cuba, and its human rights violations.

The second problem i find with the article is its general lack of description of positives found in Cuba, such as free and universal education. I do agree with the section about health care, except for the last segment claiming that doctors are fleeing the nation. Contrary to those three sources listed, the WHO released a report last year claiming that only 1-3% of Cuban doctors have in fact defected to other nations and none of which have defected to the United States. They predominately stay in countries that Cuban doctors serve as an outreach program for Cuban doctors to help third world countries. The reason why Cuba send their doctors abroad is because they have the highest doctor to patient ratio in the world, somewhere around 1 to 33. In terms of education, nothing is said about how Cuba transformed a nation that had a population of about one quarter illiterate, to a country within one year (1961-1962)able to report a literacy rate of 97%. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.15.66.174 (talk) 23:59, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree - there are a number of sections in this article that need a lot of improvement. I know that it is hard to find accurate information about Cuba, but quite frankly some of the stuff here is just US propaganda. I lived in Cuba for 12 months, and can attest that the current situation there is not accurately reflected by this article. In addition to the high quality health and education systems you mentioned, I would add their achievements with housing and food. There are no homeless or starving people in Cuba, sadly the same cannot be said of the US. Logicman1966 (talk) 01:30, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Fortunately, i was taught in Cuba because of the excellent medical program that is available to everybody in the world. If you have the desire to learn, you can go and become a doctor. Unfortunately, i did this program in the early 90s, obviously there is more red tape for this program currently. But according to one book by Jonathon Kozol, "Children of the Revolution", there is a illiteracy rate of roughly 2% in Cuba, whereas at the same time in 1976, the United States has a generous illiteracy rate of 6.9%, yet that is from an American census. The UNESCO reports it to be three times higher, around 20%. [3] 24.15.66.174 Though i find many problems with this article overall, i feel that it will never be completely unbiased and or rational towards Cuba. I just want people to know that the island is not an isle of evil on its own free will, but an oppressed island be WE oppress it. The entire ideal of Cuba was created to be an island that was free from oppression and the oppression they were seeking freedom was America.

This article has had a problematic history, mostly due to one POV pushing editor. You are all welcome to expand or balance the article, provided you have reliable sources (of course). If you'd like to get some background on the contentious history, the last talk archive includes conversations with this one particular person and will give you a sense of where these issues have come from. Natalie (talk) 14:35, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
Natalie, if it is El Jigue you are referring to I think that your view of the page's history is rather narrow. There is a 'problem' maintaining a stable and NPOV page about a contemporary and utterly polarised subject. El Jigue is simply one of the most trenchant asserters of the truth of the antiCastro perspective. There are plenty of others on both sides of the divide. It isn't as if 'reliable sources' can be taken as a sign of legitimacy, the argument simply moves to what constitutes a reliable source. The anti Castro crew will disparage the CIA factbook when the evidence supports Cuban claims. Revolution supporters will question the reliance on US periodicals especially those with connections to the Miami Cubans...
As long as the ideological war continues between the Cuban and US governments this page will continue to be a battleground, and there is nothing wrong with that. Objectivity of knowledge is a mythical destination Wikipedians can aim for, and in some cases, of which Cuba is an excellent example, the attempts to produce an NPOV page consist mainly of competition and negotiation between opposed perspectives, and anything approaching objectivity is unlikely to survive in the crossfire. The archives of the Cuban talk pages is a good source of information about the ideological battles which the subject generates. MichaelW (talk) 21:23, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
True, my view of this page's history is basically restricted to the last six months or so. I am also responding to the specific issues raised by these people, who are commenting on the more rightward slant of the article. If the opening post had been complaining of the leftward slant my response would have been different. However, I think that particular editor's influence was quite strong, just by virtue of his willingness to edit constantly and completely refuse to discuss.
That said, your points about the polarization of this particular topic and the arguments about sources are good ones. However, I think cooler heads are involved and so, hopefully, there won't be so many arguments about including facts (sans editorializing) that may cast a good or bad light on the country. Natalie (talk) 22:52, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

As long as the ideological war continues between the Cuban and US governments - Polish liberals continue an ideological war against Cuban censorship and political persecutions. Does it mean that Polish liberals are US spies?

There are different types of illiteracy, one of them is accepting any written text.

high quality health and education systems - what is the source of drugs? They aren't able to produce all of them and aren't able to buy. education system - either the system is effective and produces zombies or it produces free people, which means is uneffective. Cuba claims 99.8% literacy (List of countries by literacy rate), which is very suspicious, less than Georgian 100%, but still hard to believe. There are more than 0.2% of handicapped people in any society. Xx236 (talk) 13:38, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] WW I Correction

I have eliminated the erroneous statement that Cubans flew in the Lafayette Escadrille. According to www.theaerodrome.com/forum only two Cubans are known to have flown in France, neither with Escadrille N.124, which was staffed wholly with French and Americans. —Preceding unsigned comment added by BTillman (talk • contribs) 22:40, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Protection

I went ahead and indef semi protected this article because of extreme anon vandalism that is continually accruing even after multiple other protections, and directly after the last protection expired. Feel free to request un-protection when you feel it is time. Tiptoety talk 16:06, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Deaths on the Maine

The number of deaths listed for the Maine Incident is inconsistent:

"On 15 February the Maine blew up in Havana harbour, killing 266 men." "There were 81 foreigners and 82 black seamen among the 25 officers and 318 enlisted killed."

Someone should find the accepted death toll and erase the incorrect one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.130.173.68 (talk) 08:30, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Independence Day holiday

Why is the Cuban Independence Day holiday not listed in this article? Badagnani (talk) 21:27, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Demographics

The last sentence of the first paragraph under the Demographics section reads as follows:

"It should be noted that the vast majority of the ones who are considered white actually have some degree of Amerindian ancestry."

This is a grossly inaccurate/unsubstantiated statement which should be deleted, not to mention poorly written. It would also seem to violate at least two of Wikipedia's article policies.

It should be noted? Why? Who wrote this? Readers can be directed to "note" all they want. They won't find many "degree(s) of Amerindian ancestry" in the overwhelming majority of Cubans, *most* of whom are descendants of Spanish settlers, West African slaves, or varying degrees of the two (see data provided in article, or the CIA World Factbook, or the Cuban Government's own statistics).

Unlike Mexico, Central, and South America, with their larger, more mountainous hinterlands and territories, the decimation of Cuba's pre-colonial indigenous population and its culture was far more complete, resembling more a total genocide (hence the Spaniard's introduction of slave-labor from West Africa). As a result, in modern-day Cuban society, culture, and national demographics, there is relatively little trace of pre-colonial "Amerindian ancestry" to be found. The statement in question is as absurd as saying, 'It should be noted that the vast majority of Americans who are considered white actually have some degree of Native American ancestry.'. Simply absurd and unfounded. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.245.75.194 (talk) 22:12, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Per Carpio et al., Genetic structure of a Cuban population..., DOI 10.1007/s00414-005-0522-3, which states "The autochthonous aborigines present at the time of the discovery (1492) were exterminated in a relatively short period of time. Their presence in the contemporary Cuban genetic background is believed to be very small.", I have removed the sentence. Franamax (talk) 04:26, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
In the info box it states that 65 percent of Cuba of Spanish descent. That is basically the whole white population. But history tells us that Italian, Portuguese, Germans and even Polish persons emigrated to Cuba. Galati (talk) 03:49, 24 May 2008 (UTC)Galati
My guess is that intermarriage has blurred the bloodline distinctions—The child of an Italian person by a person whose parents are a Spanish/Polish couple is of (at least) Spanish, Polish, and Italian descent. That child's great-grandchild more than likely carries other bloodlines as well. In any case, the source figures reported in the infobox should be cited. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 05:01, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
Demographics of Cuba reflects the edit Galati has made here, if references are found, they should be put in that article too. I agree with BB about the blurring (which is true everywhere in the world), perhaps the better wording would be just "primarily Spanish", then the reader can choose to go to the Demographics article to get the precise details. Franamax (talk) 05:09, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Operation Northwoods

Operation Northwoods, or Northwoods, was a U.S false flag plan from 1962 as a "preliminary submission suitable for planning purposes" for the agenda of generating U.S. public support for military action against the Cuban government of Fidel Castro. The plan says, "The desired resultant from the execution of this plan would be to place the United States in the apparent position of suffering defensible grievances from a rash and irresponsible government of Cuba and to develop an international image of a Cuban threat to peace in the Western Hemisphere." Operation Northwoods was drafted by the Joint Chiefs of Staff and signed by the Chairman Lyman Lemnitzer, to the Secretary of Defense.

Several proposals were listed. One was to "develop a Communist Cuban terror campaign" against the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington. Others were real or simulated actions against various U.S military and civilian targets. Operation Northwoods was part of the U.S. government's Operation Mongoose anti-Castro initiative. It was never officially accepted or executed.

For more information see article Operation Northwoods . —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.67.225.63 (talk) 02:43, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] End of the Castro brothers

If Fidel and Raul Castro were killed in an airplane crash, how would the Cuban people react? 68.4.61.237 (talk) 03:53, 30 May 2008 (UTC) Vahe Demirjian 29 May 2007 If Fidel and RAul Castro were killed in an airplane crash, some people in Cuba would be happy, some other would be sad, and some other wouldnt care, but nothing would change in the socio-political aspect since this is a goverment supported by the great majority of the people in Cuba and their deaths wouldnt really affect their socio-political life, sorry for the spelling but english is not my first languate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.151.196.10 (talk) 16:40, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wrong historic information

Cuba was actually first discovered by Cristopher Colombus on the 28th of October 1492. Falcon-eagle2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.192.246.56 (talk) 21:17, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Prostitution

Since the fall of the Soviet Union when Cuba was obliged to open it itself to international tourism there has been a lot of prostution in Cuba. With comparitively wealthy tourists and bored young women (and some pretty young men) wanting the little luxuries that the planned economy cannot provide this was inevitable. This is not such an inditement of the Cuban system as it might appear. The young women are not starving nor are their children - if they have them - in need of medical care, they are just bored and want some nice things. They are just as likely to run off with a tourist's fat wallet as have sex with him. The Cubans have a special word for these young women 'Jineteras'. Maybe this is worthy of it's own Wiki article? What do people think? Anyway I think that the article should have some mention of this as it very obvious to any visitor pretty much as soon as you get to Havana.  SmokeyTheCat  •TALK• 11:17, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Since writing the above I see that the article already exists.  SmokeyTheCat  •TALK• 11:19, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 1905 Cuba book on the internet

The 1905 book Standard Guide to Cuba: A New and Complete Guide to the Island of Cuba is available in its entirety on the internet and has some great public domain photos and text. Bebestbe (talk) 23:52, 14 June 2008 (UTC)