Talk:Crystal Castles (band)

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Contents

[edit] Intro

Hi! Personally, I really love the intro, very well written, but it sounds a little like advertising/a review. Can someone clean it up a little? I'm not really sure where to go on it.
--Seraphim Whipp 14:15, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Yeah. I'm new in wikipedia editing, and now that i read it: sounds like advertising. Since your corrections came out great and it's quite good at the moment, you should watch out my modifications because my english fails a bit. right now i'm going to polish some things.
iwakami 0:15(GMT), 10 March 2007
ok, now that i polished... maybe it should shortened. There is to much description about their music and should be moved to another topic... hum... maybe "sound description" or "style" or something. Dunno what would be best from now.
iwakami 9:15(GMT), 10 March 2007
That seems like a great idea! It maybe needs a little more sourcing and referencing? It's tough, they're still quite new. They've grabbed the attention of a number of people but googling doesn't provide great numbers of stuff because of the name confusion with Crystal Castles the game. I'll see what I can find.
Seraphim Whipp 12:48, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
The information regarding the band's style- was this from a website or was it handwritten? Don't want it to be copyvio...
Seraphim Whipp 13:17, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, i wrote that while listening to their music. About the lack of info… not only they are new, also they don’t talk much. Now they’re touring with a lot of songs that are asking for a recording. We may see an EP soon and then we might get more answers. I think we should wait while juicing those interviews to an "history" or "band name" topic. They are short-worded and that requires drastic interpretative methods.
iwakami 21:09, 10 March 2007
Hey, I was wondering if Bitpop should be listed as one of this band's genres. Judging by the wiki entry for bitpop and what I've heard of the band it seems appropriate, but, as I don't know that much about either, I thought it best to ask someone who is slightly better informed than me to make the call.
82.10.101.241 18:49, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
yeah. i think your correct about that bitpop definition... either bitpop or gamewave. In essence they're a Pop band that mixes a lot of stuff so i don't know if it would be correct to roll down an enourmous list of genres either... dunno what would be best either.
Iwakami 01:24, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
Bitpop pretty much sums em up! Yay! Lol.
Seraphim Whipp 08:53, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
I would say that they also incorporate (at least in style, if not music) electroclash elements. But as it is more a style thing and an arguable one at that, i don't know whether or not it would be worth mentioning.
70.54.8.237 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 03:52, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] recent protection for 1 week

The site claims the page was vandalized, but reviewing the recent page changes, all the new information was sourced, including quotes from the band's management, articles form magazines, etc.. and was formateed properly. So how was it vandalism? Check the revision history and see what is supposed to be vandalism? The claims made by the changes are corroborated and sourced, including the reaction of the band's management. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.95.148.98 (talk) 23:53, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

I concur that all this information was verified and should in no way be considered vandalism. None of the changes contained biased information - all of this is completely true, happened, and had sources to confirm. 990master (talk) 00:43, 4 May 2008 (UTC)


One of the changes removed irrelevant information actually. In the discography it mentioned that one album sold out in 4 days or whatever. That's not relevant to a discography section, that is relevant to another section, perhaps history. Discography is titles, release dates, etc.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.95.148.98 (talk) 01:02, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
Sorry I think that was me. I have accidentally deleted all the references. I dont know how i did it :S —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.159.120.166 (talk) 21:51, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
It wasn't you. That protection had long since passed; that's how you were able to edit the article :). Don't worry, fixed now :). Seraphim♥Whipp 21:58, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] A link

I would like to find a way to add this into the article as part of the touring section although I don't know anything about this particular tour. [1]
Seraphim Whipp 23:15, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Am I overdoing it with the referencing? :-)
Seraphim Whipp 01:18, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
well... no, if we consider the cop surveillance (MUT****, he just chopped all the text out). you're really doing an excellent job with this - really cool references. i can see here "http://www.nowtoronto.com/issues/2007-01-18/music_vibes.php" a reference to "Claudio Schiffer". i begin to wonder, ain't the name ethin incorrect?... or... he might just be Claudio Ethin Schiffer... or something... i'll try to check that out.
Iwakami 08:14, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Releases

Uhmmm, They didn't release on Kitsune... This is a mistake! I don't know how to fix it myself, so I just post that info here!! Cheers, Philipp 22-04-2007 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 89.245.123.233 (talk) 12:02, 22 April 2007 (UTC).

Their future releases will be on Young Cubs; Forcefield; Summer Lovers Unlimited; Trouble; and also Kitsune (http://www.myspace.com/crystalcastles). Alice Practice on Merok was their only release to date. Insecticon on Forcefield is in pre-order mode (http://www.myspace.com/forcefieldrecords). Maybe all the other labels should be included.
Iwakami 15:24, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] To the person who claims to be friends with the band

On wikipedia, we deal with verifiability. All the statements used are verified by reliable sources.

If the band want the page any different, they should do more interviews. I, like all the other editors, am only working from what there is available.

Seraphim Whipp 01:10, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Remixes

I think the recent change to the remixes paragraph is a negative change, as all there is now, is just a list. Lists are sloppy and they are mostly avoided on wikipedia. I'm going to re-format the article back the the original way and I'll include all the recent additions made. If anyone disagrees, post back here- revert wars aren't constructive, discussion is.

Seraphim Whipp 17:45, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

EDIT: Scrap that, the original looked sloppy too. I'm going to change the remixes list into a paragraph...I think it will look better than a list.
Seraphim Whipp 17:52, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
Cleaned up the list. I removed entries from the list by including them in a new passage of prose called "Remixes". Though it needs to have more prose about background and reaction...
Seraphim Whipp 23:19, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] POV

I think that there was a strong POV in this article. I love the group as much as the rest, but I have made some changes to make the language a little more neutral. Also, my most recent edit has removed some information which I consider a little over-kill at the moment... sometimes less is more.24.68.249.197 22:18, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

I have reverted the changes you made. To my knowledge, there is no opinion or bias in the article. Your changes just removed valid information. If the "less is more" principle applied to wikipedia then no one would bother expanding the articles. The mention of remixes in the lead section was reduced already. The information you removed detracted from the notability which does derive from the fact that they remix songs. Also, I apologise if I sound curt.
Seraphim Whipp 22:44, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
I accept your assertion that the POV is not as strong as I orignally thought. The part of the introdution I removed seemed to be valid, in my eyes, as the aticle is about Crystal Castles, the duo, and the remixes are credited solely to Ethen. I don't know enough about the remixes to say with certainty who they should be credited to, but I accept the articles word on it as it states they are Ethen's remixes. If that is the case, they would be better served in an article dedicated to him (wether that is warranted or not is another question)... but I don't feel they really belong in a Crystal Castles article, unless they are a Crystal Castles production. Also, I have made some slight grammer changes, as Crystal Castles is plural (ie: a duo) the use of 'are' instead of 'is' is proper. I have left the remixes in the introduction for now, and welcome more feedback to resolve the issue. 24.68.249.197 23:52, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
Concerning who the remixes should be credited to, from all that I've read, the remixes should be credited to the band as a duo as opposed to just Ethen. I'm not entirely sure when it crept into the article that they were produced solely by Ethen- that must be fixed. I'm guessing someone else or myself must have wrote that based on the fact that he is the instrumentalist...I would check in the history but I am chronically lazy about that sort of thing...I'll fix the article now.
Seraphim Whipp 00:01, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for clarifying that... that is what I thought as well. Sorry for the hassle over this, which in retrospect, may have been largely unneccessary. I still think there is a POV in the intro, in particular the quote that describes the band as 'a perfect blend of spontaneity and inspiration'. The word 'perfect' is just to subjective to me to be valid in an encylopaedia. This may be too nit picky for now though, and it is sourced so maybe it should stand. If I ever find a quote stating the band as 'a blend of spontaneity and inspiration' I may be tempted to look for support in using it in the intro instead of the aforementioned one. Short of me writing that quote, and crediting myself though, I don't think it's gonna happen. :)24.68.249.197 00:23, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
No problem. Although...we can just remove the word "perfect"... :P...the quote will still be correct...Whaddya think?
Seraphim Whipp 00:28, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
I like your style... I think the intro gives due justice. Cheers. 24.68.249.197 02:28, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New Rave??

I think classifing CC as new rave is a bit of a stretch in the classic sense. Any objections to removing this classifier? 24.68.249.197 22:21, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

I have thought this over, and they are definately not New Rave. I have removed this label accordingly. 24.68.249.197 22:31, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Deleted

Last change, Crystal Castles have not cancelled their Australian tour.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.209.20.162 (talk • contribs)

[edit] album

My friend got info from the band itself, that the release of what they refered to as album is set to february 2008. However, I'm not sure whether this is a complete new release or Untrust Us EP. Krzyyy 18:40, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New source; misquote?

Personally, I find Kieron Gillen to be a very respected journalist. This makes it very difficult for me to believe that a whole paragraph was misquoted, especially when it says, as clear as day, "We’re not meant to be a band. Crystal Castles is an accident." I have incorporated the new source and tried to create a neutral portrayal of the situation. Seraphim Whipp 16:22, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

I am going to re-write the controversy section, so the reader can decide for themself. Both quotes can be placed in the article. It's neutral and unbiased, offering all sides of the information to the reader. It doesn't "prove" anything. As I wrote above, I find the very idea that a whole paragraph, that was a clear as the one in that article, to have been fully misquoted, unusual and personally, I remain sceptical about the reliability of that particular source.
Seraphim Whipp 01:44, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Touring details

For such an underground band, all the information provided is used because it establishes notability. This band fail part of our notability guideline anyway because they haven't released two albums, however, all the information used in this article establishes notability, as do the multiple sources. Some people might argue that Crystal Castles are not a "credible band". At wikipedia, credibility and notability is established through sources. These bands have multiple mentions in the media but in different types of publications. I may improve the Metric article tomorrow.

Seraphim Whipp 21:29, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

The Metric tour has not been cancelled and there is no proof of this. There is however, proof that they have done a concert with Metric...I think the photographs sufficiently prove this http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/article/news/45826-photos-metric-crystal-castles-new-york-ny-092107 .
I have already made it specifically clear the reasons why tour information is so important. Recently, one specific IP insists on removing chunks of content with no references. The link provided in the edit summary did not specifically link to the article they were referring to. I use the blog's search bar, which provided nothing. Regardless, the IP was also insisting that CMJ had been cancelled when it hadn't, only Crystal Castles date. I'm not sure the IP will get my message if I post to their talk page since it changes, so I will say here, that rudeness is unwarranted and persistent incivilty can be met with short blocks.
Seraphim Whipp 12:54, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
I think the new recent additions are much better. I'm glad that you (99.233.36.106) have such a new positive attitude; this article is improving.
Seraphim Whipp 11:23, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Crystal Castles.jpg

Image:Crystal Castles.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 18:46, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ataricore? Bitpunk?

Do these genres even exsist or is someone mucking around? Thundermaster367 15:40, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

There are many many genres out there and genres like those are floating about, so yes I guess they do exist. Personally, I prefer the genres that were listed in the article before as they didn't pigoeon hole the band too much.
Seraphim Whipp 16:05, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Still, we have no sources for them, they sound stupid and they are only used on this article. So I say we get rid of them. ''I Am The Master Of All Thunder'' (talk) 12:11, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bitpunk Ataricore

They have no sources and are only on this article. Therefore, I will remove them now. Please don't bring them back without a source. ThundermasterThundermaster's Talk 16:32, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sound / general question

I've removed the trivia section and I notice that a lot of the information there is uncited. If anyone can come along and add citations, it would be a great help.

Also, the Sound section currently only consists of a single quote from a review and should probably be either bulked up or integrated into another section of the article. Ams1230 (talk) 00:59, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure if you are only referring to the trivia section but the article, as a whole, has 28 sources. I noticed you removed a quote which described the sound; if I add that back in, the style section may be a little more fleshed out. I can sort through the sources and find many varied quotes about their music though. The trivia section was mostly unreferenced. I did add two sourced, pieces of trivia to that list a while back, which I was planning on intergrating into the article, but someone removed them both. I'll go through the history and see if I can intergrate any of it. I'll give the article some love at the weekend :). Seraphim Whipp 02:34, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Yes, I was referring to the trivia section as well as the line that you ended up taking out because I didn't have any sources for it. It probably doesn't even need all 28 sources because tour dates aren't contested information. Thanks! Ams1230 (talk) 18:04, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Location

Crystal Castles is a Toronto based band. You can check pretty much any interview/article on them for citation of this (including the one that is already there.) Not to mention video interviews show them to NOT have any variation of an English accent. Maybe they both live in St. Helena now, but they were definitly not based there. I'll leave the name issue because it's pretty clear they aren't comfortable with having their real names floating about, so any name is as good as the next until we get like... birth certificates or whatever. But regarding location, Myspace is a website where people say they're 99 years old. Hardly a worthy citation source. 74.12.180.65 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 02:36, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I hope that 5 reliable news sources settle this; they are Canadian and from Toronto. Seraphim Whipp 00:44, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Atari 5200 sound chip?

Isn't that a POKEY chip? (used in many Atari system & Arcade machines, not just the 5200) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.203.80.83 (talk) 00:50, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

yes it is a POKEY chip 990master (talk) 00:51, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
but they also don't actually USE a pokey chip. That's just a fabricated story. It would be impossible to desolder a pokey chip and just slap it into a broken keyboard and make any sound. It would take a few weeks of going through the dev docs for the pokey and creating a microcontroller to translate the keyboard matrix of the keyboard into signals that are identifiable to the pokey as programming instructions to create audio. This has since been acomplished via midi with a midi controlled pokey design, but it does not involve "slapping a chip into a keyboard", which any engineer would tell you is nonsense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.95.148.98 (talk) 01:25, 4 May 2008 (UTC)


Yes it is impossible to "slap" a pokey chip into a keyboard.Where exactly would they replace it?

Only way possible is through a midi sync to the chip, being controlled by a midi keyboard. All of it is loops and samples done in sony acid, and baselines done on a microkorg. Please correct this. Also When i say sampling , i mean heavy, heavy sampling of a full song, without due notification to artist , as in the case of lo-bat. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.246.56.126 (talk) 00:00, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

I suggest that this bit about putting a POKEY chip into a keyboard is re-written to be worded as a claim. It is obviously not fact.Moforex (talk) 21:06, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. and you can't just pull a POKEY out of a 5200 and then plug it into a midi keyboard. This story is the equivalent of Claudio Palmieri claiming "I found a dead bird in my garbage, so i put honey on its wings, and the bird came back from the dead, and then it granted me one wish". To someone who is not an engineer or familiar with electronics, it might not sound preposterous, but to someone who is, its PREPOSTEROUS. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.229.30.66 (talk) 08:40, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

OK. I reworded the sentence; I hope no one minds. It was kind of a run-on sentence anyway...Moforex (talk) 18:21, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Good job! Seraphim♥Whipp 23:35, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

"“I found a keyboard in the garbage next to my building,” says Claudio, the group’s defacto producer. “I tried getting it to work, but it wouldn’t. A week before, though, I had found an Atari 5200. So I ripped the soundchip out of that thing and put it in the keyboard, and I started being able to control the sounds.” He gave a dozen or so makeshift beats to Alice, a local Toronto girl he knew only by virtue of a friend’s crush."
This is from the FADER artice, and it ties in quite a bit with the controversy of the band stealing other's work. You can't take a chip from there and "plug and play" with a keyboard.
The mp3 files from the band have been under spectral analysis, which showed the beats are identical to another song licenced under the Creative Commons license. The CC license states that if a song under a CC song is sampled/used, the result must be published under a CC licence.
I suggest you all read this article: http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/05/05/chiptune-music-theft-continues-crystal-castles-abuses-creative-commons-license/
trevor brown's blog( warning, Not safe for work): http://www.pileup.com/babyart/blog/?p=81
Also, the 8-bit collective site, where the music "samples" were taken from: http://8bitcollective.com/
An 8-bit collective thread on the matter: http://8bitcollective.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=4417&p=1
CC license: http://creativecommons.org/
I'll sign this once I login.

[edit] Album artwork and various changes

This section is as neutral and encyclopedic as it should be.

  • It was Trevor Brown's original artwork used, not a "popular photo" and that wording dilutes the explanation of why this was covered by the media.
  • The external link is from a reliable music website, not a spam link.
  • The source used says that the remixes were by Crystal Castles and nowhere says they were explicitly done by Ethan Kath.

There is nothing in that content that isn't backed up against sources, so please don't misrepresent them by placing false information in front of them. Seraphim♥ Whipp 15:13, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Also, let's try to keep this neutral. We can't have things skewed one way to make CC "look good" or Brown "look good". We're not passing judgement on the band or Trevor Brown, we're just representing things that have been printed by reliable sources. Seraphim♥ Whipp 11:55, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Claudio Palmieri - there is no such person as Ethan Kath

Why is the name Ethan Kath being used. The band members names are Alice and Claudio. Who the hell is ethan? He's a made up, fictional person, created as a joke by the band, a joke they ran with.

This has been sourced and changed many times, but wikipedia keeps putting the name back to ethan kath..

http://www.thefader.com/articles/2006/12/12/walking-on-glass http://www.exclaim.ca/articles/generalarticlesynopsfullart.aspx?csid1=119&csid2=844&fid1=30182

For real, Claudio Palmieri —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.95.148.98 (talk) 01:11, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Plagiarism

While the Trevor Brown section is completely relevant, I don't think it's fair to include the "8-bit group" section for the following reasons: 1) If you listen to the clips provided on the cited website, it is not a clear cut case of plagiarism (unlike the Madonna image and Ayo Technology). It's highly subjective. 2) Even if it was a direct rip, neither one of the listed CC songs was sold on an album/LP/etc... Both were posted as demos on myspace with no direct claim of originality. These are the same two people who posted a practice session on myspace. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Underdog000 (talk • contribs) 07:09, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

that's untrue. posting on myspace is a direct claim of originality. The user agreement and the upload process both state you must own the music or have the right to upload it. Also, having music on a page with the name "crystal castles" indicates the music is 'crystal castles'". The case with Bitter Hearts is more clearcut, but the case with insecticon is not. While its not simply stealing the tune etc... its misuse of copyrighted work for commercial purposes (marketing and advertising are commercial activies and myspace is Crystal Castle's most successful marketing tool so far.). Anyhow, this is what is being debated, but it is established now independantly in the media that crystal castles have violated at least Lo-bat's Creative Commons liscence (demonstrated fact). That could be included neutrally as "Crystal Castles did use Lo-Bat's song (fact, verified by the manager Mikey Apples on 8bc.org) without following the creative commons liscence requirements". established in the big real internet called the world ans multifariously verified and sourced. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.229.30.66 (talk) 08:24, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
Exclaim.ca and blogto.com have now reported on this controversy, so I think we are on solid ground to include it. It needs to be presented neutrally of course, meaning that we should not actually state that they copied without permission or did anything improper, only that the allegation has been made by members of the chiptune community and reported on by Canadian music news sites. See [2], [3].<eleland/talkedits> 15:32, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
Underdog000 - I suggest you read up on your law. Also, Crystal Castles, through a representitive, has admitted they did this. Moforex (talk) 21:12, 6 May 2008 (UTC) [4]
it is neutral to state they did do something improper, if they did do something improper. It isn't neutrality to take a demonstrated fact and say 'it has been alleged that". The neutral truth is "it has been demonstrated that" crystal castles used Covox - Sunday and Lo-bat - my little droid needs a hand. It has been authenticated, verified by the manager, demonstrated scientificially with spectral analysis verifying artifacts of the original work in the crystal castles songs etc... It would be like saying "it has been alleged that the earth revolves around the sun" or "it has been claimed that the sky may be blue". That's not neutrality. Neutrlaity means that the facts be put in, without additions. Without commentary. Without judgement. So no diatribes about copyright, or what dinks you think Crystal Castles may be etc.. just the FACT that they illegally sampled these two songs. Without any coloring. No "these ruthless brutal inhuman ingrates have stolen the precious chiptunes!" and no "these two innocent dupes accidentally hit "steal" on their macbook pro"... just NEUTRAL. the fact. Also, seriously, how long do we have to see the name of the non existant person "ethan kath" (despite numerous articles and interviews in which he uses different names, ethan fowls for instance, ethin elsewhere). Claudio Palmieri. that's the man's name who makes the music. Claudio Palmieri (also established objectively in the real world of published journalism and canadian birth certificates and drivers liscences and so on). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.229.30.66 (talk) 08:31, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Citation conflicts with article data

The article names Ethan Kath and Alice whatever as members of the band, and then cites an article in "thefader" (citation 7) The article clearly states the names of the band members are "claudio and alice". CLEARLY in the article which is used to cite the names "Ethan and Alice" The word "ethan" does not even appear once in thefader article... click the link used for citation 7 (http://www.thefader.com/blog/articles/2006/12/12/walking-on-glass) and hit CTRL+F in your browser. Then type "ethan" or "kath".

The real-world objective fact is about Claudio Palmieri. BUT, the wikiepedia information is about Ethan Kath..

Please, this is rediculous. Will i be seeing articles about Borris Dawin and Frank Shakespeare soon? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.229.30.66 (talk) 08:35, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Chiptune genre?

Chiptune is defined on Wikipedia as 'music written in sound formats where all the sounds are synthesized in realtime by a computer or video game console sound chip, instead of using sample-based synthesis'. Isn't this something Crystal Castles definitely does not do? I sincerely think the claim that Crystal Castles belongs in the chiptune genre should be removed from this article. Any opinions? Moforex (talk) 18:27, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia might define it that way, but many chiptune musicians do not use original video game synthesizers. They use sample based trackers, for instance (The amiga had no synthesizers, but the amiga is popular chiptunes platform nonetheless, due to its interesting DACs on the Paula chip (itself not a synthesis chip)). SNES music is made entirely by samples. VIRT, and other well known exponents of chiptunes, use samples. The idea is that chiptunes are in some way limited to basic waveforms (or sometimes FM) and samples in some way matching the limitations of a synthesis chip. Not necessarily music made ON that synthesis chip. virt talks about it on his site. http://virt.vgmix.com/ i think virt's authority on what is or is not a chiptune is fairly authoritative. But since on sites like, for instance, 8bc.org, many chiptune artists (Self identifying and identified by the community) use VSTs which use basic waveforms (square, triangle, pulse, saw, white noise), or sample trackers like Milkytracker, we can move past the "no samples, exclusive on a synthesis chip" deffinition. How could you make a .mod or a .s3m, or a .it or .xm WITHOUT samples? those popular chiptunes formats are 100% sample based (and have been since those trackers were written, and always will be sample based.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.48.205.46 (talk) 21:38, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
I do believe that you are wrong. The Amiga had sound chips as did the SNES. ...to claim that those computers/video game systems didn't have 'synthesizers'... jeez. You mean that they didn't have oscillators (a better word in this situation is operators). Your logic and word use on that front pretty much implies that in your view the DX7 isn't a synth. Milkytracker, by the way, is capable of producing tones without samples. Read the tutorial on chiptunes (or you could watch it on youtube)... right there, however, we may get into semantics as to what constitutes 'samples'. Furthermore, Sample based synthesis is PCM synthesis, which nothing you mention use. Chiptunes are made with PHASEDISTORTION/FREQUENCY MODULATION SYNTHESIS. There is a growing trend, i might add, that those that use emulators are not to be taken seriously (i've seen this on the prophet64 forums). Anyway, this is a total digression... do you think Crystal Castles are chiptune? Moforex (talk) 21:55, 30 May 2008 (UTC)


Well in the case of Crystal Castles, Just because you steal from chiptune artists ,doesnt mean you make chiptunes.Since when does copy and paste = chiptunes? And dont you dare tell me that theft is unverified, Its on Create Digital Music. I should say once again, that Crystal Castles are NOT Chiptunes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.253.42.79 (talk) 05:22, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

They're definitely not chiptune, they're far better than chiptune. They've evolved the genre into something more. They did "sample" the whole song, but they stole nothing. They made zero profit off of Insecticon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.56.172.90 (talk) 22:34, 22 May 2008 (UTC)


Are you stupid? They steal from real artists and suddenly they are better?So They Steal from that genre, add vocals, and it becomes better? Well if thats true im off to go sing over a few metallica tracks, and make metal better. Actually Far better, its not even going to be metal anymore.Think before you talk , you moron —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.129.183.1 (talk) 04:38, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Crystal Castles are at the top because they have a talent a mixing and adding vocals that these little artists don't. Get over it —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.241.188.24 (talk) 19:19, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Reorganising the article

I think it'd be a good idea to merge the plagiarism controversies into the history section - right now the article is really disorganised. Sceptre (talk) 23:45, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree. However, if the section on plagiarism was expanded, it should be it's own section. I, personally, believe it should be expanded. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.119.39.236 (talk) 23:03, 23 May 2008 (UTC)