Talk:Cross of Burgundy Flag

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[edit] Burgundian saltire

The Burgundian saltire dates back to 1408 (John "The Fearless", Duke of Burgundy).The Spaniard army kept on flying the Burgundian colours up to 1843. In 1934, and by no means before that date, the Burgundian flag became the Carlist flag. The Spaniard air tail markings, in spite of the legend, have nothing to do with the Burgundian saltire. The Francoists in the summer of 1936 crossed the Republican red-yellow-and-mauvish flag and roundels out of their warplanes. That´s why there´s a black saltire upon white in the current Spaniard warplanes´tail.

I hope you are able to read in spanish: Spanish Air Force Website. --Maurice27 11:24, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

I´m able, Maurice (I happen to be Spaniard). The black saltier as a Spaniard fin marking dates back to the summer of 1936. It´s a Francoist symbol. The Spaniard Air Force is trying to whitewash a Francoist trumped-up symbol, taking advantage of the people´s lack of knowledge.You should read air historians and researchers like Guerrero, and the couple Miranda & Mercado.And Salas Larrazábal, of Carlist stock, was grinding his own axe ("barriendo para casa").Under Alfonso XIII the Spaniard military air fin marking was the red-and-yellow flag,neither a Burgundian red saltire nor a black one.Crystal clear, mate.

I believe you are wrong. Franco decided to use it on the planes because of the mistakes made by the opposing forces attacking friendly planes (the spanish air force site mentions a Breguet-19 attacked by friendly forces in Seville). Let's not forget that many times, both air forces had the same planes where the only difference was a bicolor or tricolor flag on the fin and the roundels. At the end of the war, the red-yellow-red roundel returned on the wings and fuselage, as it is the conventional international spanish air force distinction. The cross of Burgundy on the fin is not an international distinction and is kept for historical reasons (it has been used since mid XVI century by the spanish armies and still, many spanish regiments have it in their flags). The Royal Air Force / South East Asia Command had to change its red-white-blue roundel during WWII in the pacific theatre for the same reasons. Japanese Air Force had a red roundel and friendly planes were attacked. Red was removed to avoid confusion with the hinomaru. For this reason, the RAF had white & blue only roundels in the pacific.

In addition, don't forget that in times of Alfonso XIII, the air force was called "Aeronáutica Militar Española". It was a completely different army, which was completely redone from scratch with the republic and completely redone again at the end of the war. You can not freely say that Franco did not follow what was established with Alfonso XIII when the "Ejército del Aire Español" was created 1949 as one army had nothing to do with the other. --Maurice27 16:46, 26 July 2007 (UTC)


Early in the Civil War the Francoist warplanes kept on displaying the Republican flag and cockade, Maurice.As you say, both parties had the same Breguets and Nieuports at their disposal.So far as I can remember,that Francoist Breguet XIX light bomber was shot down in error by the Legion Condor, or at least by an German plane in Francoist service.And what?Everything remains the same: the black saltire is a Francoist badge, an outrage to the duty-bound Loyalist airmen who shed their blood on behalf of the Republic.To the blazes with it. It should be forbidden once and for all.By the way, the black Francoist roundels were a Spaniard erstwhile military badge or nothing but a deleted Republican cockade? Same thing for the upper wing black or white saltires. Another homage perchance to the Cross of Burgundy? P.S.: In the war against Japan (1941-1945) the British and Commonwealth air markings ended up being either sky blue&light blue ,or else sky blue&white.Do you think in earnest that that makes the black saltire great to my liking?

Look, as much as I respect your POV, I cannot agree with it. You are stating that an heraldic symbol from the middle ages should be forbidden because Nationalist forces used it during the civil war. With that POV the red-yellow-red roundel should also be changed, just like the very same flag of Spain. The german luftwaffe in WWII also used a cross in its planes. Svastika or not, it was a black cross, just like the one they have in present days. Should germany change it because of its past? I guess not. And what about the flag? Should it be changed because it is "soiled with the blood of democratic governamental republican forces"? Is that what you are saying? Franco did not invent those symbols nor colors. He just used the ones existing before the republic, the colors and symbols representing spain and its armies for more than 400 years. The misuse of an ensign or a symbol by a simple man, even if being a dictator, should not affect the respect that those ensigns or symbols deserve.

Why doesn't christianity change the cross as its symbol then? Hundreds of thousand people died under the sign of the cross. Don't care if it was because of Witchcraft, liberalism, beliefs, being a moor in Granada or a sarracen in Damascus. Nobody deserves to die because of those reasons. How many countries, regions, cities, which nowadays do publicly and thankfully defend freedom of beliefs, civil rights and democracy, should remove this symbol from their flags? England, Malta, scandinavian countries, Asturias... hundreds in the world... Why do they keep a symbol covered with blood in their flags? Maybe because the misuse given to it in the past by "mere mortals" did not soil its prestige.

The Spanish Air Force is a branch of the constitutional spanish armed forces. They have been constitutional for 30 years now. The armed forces are there to protect the soveraignty of Spain, would it be ruled by absolutists kings, dictatorships, republics or constitutionals monarchies. 30 years... Not a single government in those years, would it be from left, center or right, has made that change... Any idea why? --Maurice27 13:00, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

For they are either traitors or cowards, Maurice.And the "Yoke & Arrows" from Ferdinand of Aragon & Isabella of Castile should be forbidden too. And what about the Spaniard Naval Air Arm? No black saltire (or saltaire). Wasn´t the Burgundian banner the Spaniard naval ensign up to 1701 or so? And the Spaniard Air Force´s maritime rescue flying boats in the 1950s & 1960s? No black saltire. Most ironically your beloved black saltire is part of the Spaniard military heritage: The Cantabria´s Regiment badge. This unit was raised in Guipúzcoa in 1703.It´s a sort of Basque, Cantabrian or Asturian badge.////ALL OF YOU STAND TO ATTENTION PLEASE (YOU TOO, MAURICE): I´ve been editing & updating on my own the Spanish article on the Cross of Burgundy (Cruz de Borgoña, Spanish Wikipedia). I´m responsible for the lines referring to the current Spaniard rudder marking as an embellished Francoist ad-hoc deletion of the republican flag -my bugbear Maurice is allowed to rebuke me for my talking about "wishful thinking"-, First Carlist War, Fal Conde,Basque Nationalism, Biscayne (or Biscayan)(or Vizcayan) merchant ensign, Walloon Rexism, 28th SS division & French regiments raised in Burgundy. In general terms it´s a sound and reliable reappraisal, perhaps rather thumbsnail. Any gross mistake on my part?All kind of further authoritative sources & ammendments shall come in handy.Any volunteer for translating the new text into English? I´m not up to it. I can´t help bringing havoc to the English syntax.Hmmm, I pointed out that the Wallon Legion was mauled on the Russian front. Rexists &Far-Rightish supporters at large are gonna hate me...//////Perhaps is nothing but a myth, but there´s a theory that explains why the Burgundian cross uses to be red. Among the crusaders in Syria,Lebanon & Palestine(the County of Edessa was short-lived) the red cross was the French badge. A makeshift red cross on someone´s breast meant that one was a French crusader. Later, in the Hundred Years´ War, the English king (Anglo-Gascon to be precise) was claimant to the French throne ( and strictly speaking he was the most legitimate candidate). As a result, the one-time French red cross became the English badge (St. George´s cross). The powerful Duke of Burgundy -of French royal lineage &, needless to say,pretender to the throne- eventually turned his coat & backed up the English against the French (the so-called "Armagnacs"). In short, the Burgundian barbed saltire was red since the English one was red as well.The snag is that the 15th century Burgundian army at times flew standards in reverse colours. According to NICHOLAS MICHAELS in "Armies of Medieval Burgundy" (Osprey, 1983): "Not until the early 15th century did the St. Andrew´s cross appear as a military emblem of Burgundy, & was adopted as a result of the civil war in France, no doubt to distinguish between the various partisans [...] In 1408 John the Fearless chose the cross for the Burgundian flag".//////Any volunteer for a text on the Cross of Burgundy as regimental and corps colours and badge in today´s Spaniard armed services (inclusive of the Civil Guard and its Burgundian saltire upon Lincoln green)? I mean the real Cross of Burgundy, Maurice, not your second-rate Francoist rudder marking!//////Regards, "El Encartado Enmascarado".Oops, at last I´ve translatated, or at least tried to, my reappraisal into English. Sorry, Shakespeare...

Spaniard air markings since the 1910's or 1920's to our day. "http://www.aire.org/ea/historia/escarape.htm"

I would ask you not to say "your second-rate Francoist rudder marking!"... As it is not mine! I don't what are your beliefs about my political ideas, but, estás meando muy muy fuera de tiesto--Maurice27 19:22, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

====I would say "pissing off the flowerpot" in my own "do-it-yourself" English...////According ot OTTO VON PIVKA in "Spanish Armies of the Napoleonic Wars" (Osprey, 1975):"SPANISH ARMY FLAGS_ The flags carried by the Spanish army in the period 1800-1815 were governed by the decree of 22 October 1768. Each [line infantry] battalion had two flags, one a King´s Colour, the other the Battalion Colour. Both were white. The King´s Colour bore in the centre the crest of Spain [inclusive of quarters of some European territories no longer under Spaniard rule] & in each corner the badge of the king, or of the province or town from which they took their title. The flags were embroidered [...] The Battalion Colour bore in the centre a red diagonal (St Andrew´s or "Burgundian") cross, with stylised branches to either side & in each corner the badge of the province or town whose title they bore[...]Spanish Cavalry Standards_These were of the pattern laid down on 12 July 1728. Each squadron of heavy cavalry and dragoons had one standard, which was red and bore on one side the Spanish crest (as for the infantry flags) and in each corner a gold fleur-de-lis, on the other side a trophy of arms and the regimental number."

[edit] The British White Ensign & the Cross of Burgundy

Shouldn´t be deleted the reference to the British naval ensign & its likeness to the Cross of Burgundy as the reason for the design of the 1785 Spaniard red-yellow-&-red naval ensign (national & army flag since 1843 & merchant since 1927)?I´m afraid it´s a nonsensical anachronism, for since 1701 or so the red Burgundian saltire on white was no longer the Spaniard naval ensign (in theory in the 18th-century at least there was a Spaniard merchant flag that consisted of a white Burgundian saltire on blue), & it seems to me that in 1785 the more common British naval ensign was the Red Ensign ( a merchant flag since 1864) rather than the white ensign.According to BRIAN LAVERY in "Nelson´s Navy" (Conway Maritime Press, 1989): "The main British [naval] flag was the ensign, whether red, white or blue. THE WHITE ENSIGN WAS NOT YET IDENTIFIED WITH THE ROYAL NAVY, & ships flew the ensign according to the rank of the admiral commanding their division [here the author is alluding to the ranks of admiral, vice admiral & rear admiral, each of these ranks divided into 3 squadrons, in order of seniority, red, white & blue]_thus ships under an admiral of the blue would fly the blue ensign, & so on. It was an obsolete system based on the nine-part division of the fleet in the mid-17th century. Often, it had to be modified in practice; if there were two divisional admirals of the same colours in the fleet, the [commanding] admiral might order one of the divisions to change its flag, so that the divisions could be distinguished in action. In other cases, ships of the whole fleet wore the same ensign. Ships sailing under Admiralty orders wore THE SENIOR FLAG, THE RED ENSIGN. The ensign consisted of the union flag in the upper corner of a red, white, or blue background. The white ensign also had the red St George´s cross on the white background". And so far as I know -it´s me once again, "El Encartado", no longer quoting Lavery- the rather sensible & practical reason behind the design of the 1785 red-yellow-red Spaniard naval ensign (& the Spaniard merchant flag in 1785-1927 : two red stripes or fesses on yellow) was to avoid confusions among warships of France, Two Sicilies & Spain, all of them powers under Bourbon kings & consequently flying white naval ensigns (white was the dynastical colour). Anyway, the reference to the red Burgundian saltire on white as a Spaniard naval ensign & its would-be likeness to the red St George´s cross makes no sense against this context.

Spaniard naval ensign (c.1701-1785):"http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imagen:Armada1701.png"
British:"http://www.kipar.org/piratical-resources/british-naval-flags.html" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.142.175.22 (talk) 11:22, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Carlist flags in 1833-40

And shouldn´t be deleted as well the refence to the Burgundian saltire as a Carlist badge since the First Carlist War? To a great extent that widespread assertion runs counter to evidence. As I´ve tried to explain in my broken English, in 1833-40 the Spaniard standing army, that fought on behalf of the Regent Queen against the Carlist pretender, still carried Burgundian colours (but the cavalry, that flew crimson standards, & the part-timers of the National Militia, who carried a red-yellow-red flag slightly different to the 1785 naval ensign)( in the National Militia the central yellow fess occupied one-third of the flag instead of one-half). The Burgundian saltire on Carlist colours in 1833-40 was rather uncommon to say the least, above all on the eastern front (Catalonia, Valencia, El Maestrazgo, a.k.a. Maestrat). In spite of the popular delusion to the contrary, it was not until 1934 that the Burgundian red saltire was identified once & for all with Carlism. I suggest that all of you pay a visit to the comprehensive "www.balagan.org.uk/war/iberia/1833/flags.htm", & you´ll see Liberal Burgundian saltires aplenty, but only one carlist colour with the Burgundian saltire, that of the Navarre Battalions.:"http://www.balagan.org.uk/war/iberia/1833/flags.htm"

[edit] Flag of a Dutch municipality

The flag & the coat of arms of the Dutch municipality of Eijsden (Limburg) have a Burgundian red saltire. The flag dates back to 1966 & was slightly modified in 1984.////Same thing for the local coat of arms or crest. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.142.175.22 (talk) 09:56, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] As French military badge

Aside from the "Bourgogne" & "Royal-Comtois" foot regiments (units raised in the Franche-Comte, the one-time Spaniard Burgundy), the Burgundian saltire was carried on uniforms, guidons & caparisons (or saddles) by 2 Household horse companies: The "Gendarmes de Bourgogne" (1668) & the "Chevaux Legers de Bourgogne" (1690). In the Franco-Prussian War in 1870 the "Gardes Mobiles" (militia men) from the area around Dijon used the Burgundian red saltire on their peasant blue smocks' left shoulder . —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.142.175.22 (talk) 09:35, 18 September 2007 (UTC) ====It seems that in "Ancien Regime" France 4 provincial militia regiments bore a sort of Cross of Burgundy on their colours: The Dijon, Autun, Vesoul and Salins Regiments.

"http://kronoskaf.com/syw/index.php?title=Royal_Comtois_Infanterie#Colours" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.142.175.22 (talk) 10:22, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Austrian Netherlands' flag & Ostend Company

An Austrian double-headed black eagle on a red Burgundian saltire on a background of red over white over yellow. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.142.175.22 (talk) 09:56, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

"http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/b/be_at781.gif"
Ostend Company:"http://www.swaen.com/ostend.html" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.142.175.22 (talk) 10:40, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] On Spaniard army flags after 1843 & in the 3rd Carlist War (1872-76)

Although in 1843 the 1785 naval red & yellow flag became the army flag, that didn´t away with the Spaniard Cross of Burgundy. It appeared under a round four-quartered Castilian & Leonese coat of arms on the central yellow fess or stripe of the flag. Even in the 3rd Carlist War (1872-76)some Liberal governmental units kept on flying the time-old traditional Cross of Burgundy, for instance the battalion´s colour of the 1st King´s Immemorial Foot Regiment (a red Burgundian saltire on white)(the appellative King´s fell out of favour under the 1st Republic in 1873-1874) and that of the 3rd Foot Artillery Battalion(red Burgundian saltire on a sort of purple). Once again, what since 1934 is a Carlist badge was not such in the 19th century. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.142.175.22 (talk) 09:33, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

"http://banderasmilitares.com/ginde_hasta_gcivil_2.htm" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.142.175.22 (talk) 10:24, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sucre & Chuquisaca (Bolivia)

Sucre, capital to the department of Chuquisaca and former colonial capital, is at loggerheads with La Paz, the Bolivian capital. The local flag, flown on demonstrations, is the Cross of Burgundy or nearly so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.142.175.22 (talk) 10:08, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes it is the Cross of Burgundy, and the flag is the official one of the departament of Chuquisaca, although lately a flag using the Asturian cross is more common, but the one with the Burgundy cross is still the official one, Jso_1985

I've been told the Burgundian saltire is not the official flag, but anyway it's rather popular & widespread. The local dwellers believe it is the "Spaniard Empire's flag". And the red cross on the official Sucre flag is Templar-like rather than Asturian-like. It appears on the local coat of arms or crest. There's a 3rd and rather uncommon model, perhaps the actual official Chuquisaca flag, based most likely on the Burgundian saltire. It's a sort of broken Cross of Burgundy. And thanks for your help.////P.S._ The aforesaid red cross (Templar or Jerusalem-like) made appearance as well on the Chuquisaca coat of arms.///P.S._Although it is a bit uncommon, at times there's a golden crown in the center of the flag, on the Burgundian saltire.
Well I was thought in school that it's the official one(with a crown in the middle), and also all public institutions fly it, the other one, that looks like a templar one was brought by a historian who claimed it is actually the original one, it's still unofficial but it's the most popular one and the court of justice recognizes it as the official one and flies it.::::

O.K., I delete "semi-official" in favour of just "official". Thanks for your amiability.

"http://www.reflexiones.8m.com/escudo.htm" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.142.175.22 (talk) 12:30, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Traditional-Fencing Spaniard Association

This sports association & its local branches bear the red Burgundian saltire on their badges. Spanish name: "Asociación Española de Esgrima Antigua".

"http://www.esgrimaantigua.com/AEEALogo.php"

[edit] Spaniard Navy's El Ferrol Squadron (1732)

In 1732 for strategical reasons & for sheer cheeseparing the Spaniard Navy was divided into 3 fleets, one per maritime department. Although the naval ensign was white with the king's crest in the centre, each squadron flew a differente secondary flag. The El Ferrol Squadron's jack was a red Burgundian saltire on white, and in each corner an anchor as badge. A similar flag was used by the 18th-century Spaniard marines (black anchors instead of golden).

"http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/e/es~1732f.gif"

[edit] Flag of Huesca (Spain)

This local flag looks like a 17th-century Spaniard infantry colour. It's square & bears a red Burgundian saltire on a multi-coloured background. Note: the flag of the province of Huesca is different to that of the town and provincial capital.////According to a local source this flag dates from the early 18th century. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.142.175.22 (talk) 12:10, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

"http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imagen:Flag_of_Huesca.svg" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.142.175.22 (talk) 12:59, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Belgian naval ensign (1950)

According to the official version this naval ensign pays homage to the cross of Burgundy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.84.157.43 (talk) 15:54, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

"http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imagen:Naval_Ensign_of_Belgium.svg" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.142.175.22 (talk) 12:56, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The Burgundian saltire on Spaniard municipal flags

Guipuzcoan municipalities of Antzuola, Asteasu, Bergara (aka Vergara), Soraluze (aka Placencia de las Armas), Eskoriatza & Legazpi. Navarrese municipalities of Roncal (aka Erronkari), Santesteban (aka Doneztebe), Isaba (aka Izaba), Garde, Urzainqui (aka Urzainki), Uztarroz (aka Uztarrotze), Vidangoz (aka Bidankotze), Burgui (aka Burgi), Tafalla, & -perhaps- Baztán. Aragonese municipalities of Huesca -already mentioned- & Lidón. Andalusian municipality of Bujalance. On the coat of arms: Las Labores (Ciudad Real). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.142.175.22 (talk) 11:42, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

"http://vexilologia.es/navarra/valles.htm" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.142.175.22 (talk) 11:25, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
"http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imagen:Bandera_de_Bujalance.jpg" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.142.175.22 (talk) 11:29, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Spaniard Society of Vexillology

Its flag pays homage at once to the 1785 red-&-yellow flag and to the the cross of Burgundy: A yellow X edged with red on a white background. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.142.175.22 (talk) 12:08, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Consulate of Bilbao

"http://es.geocities.com/aingast/index24.htm" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.142.175.22 (talk) 10:17, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Consulate's ceremonial rowing barge in c.1740_"http://www.bilbaoinformacion.com/conoce_bilbao/comun/cb001010a.htm" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.142.175.22 (talk) 10:28, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
Consulate's coat in 1691 "http://www.oronoz.com/leefoto.php?referencia=%2080837" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.142.175.22 (talk) 10:57, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
The Consulate was a local merchant and shipping guild. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.142.175.22 (talk) 11:12, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Rexism, Walloon Legion & Waffen-SS

"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/image:Wallonische_Legion_Version_1.jpg" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.142.175.22 (talk) 10:26, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Rexist Blood Order, aka Honour Badge: "http://www.military.be/blog/2007/09/12/rex-vlaanderen-badges-rexist-blood-order-or-honor-badge-2/" (note: although the Rexist Party was for the most part made up of Walloon members, there was a Flemish branch ) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.142.175.22 (talk) 11:25, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
Rexist press: "http://www.usmbooks.com/leon_degrelle.html" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.142.175.22 (talk) 10:29, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Basque Nationalist "Mendigoxale" (Alpinist) Flag

"http://es.geocities.com/aingast/index23.htm" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.142.175.22 (talk) 10:41, 28 January 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Flag of Low Countries (since the Burgundian rule)

"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_-_Low_Countries_-_XVth_Century.svg"

[edit] As Spaniard merchant flag before 1785

According to the Spaniard writer & military history buff Carlos Canales (magazine "Revista de Iberia Vieja", issue 32, February 2008) the red Burgundian saltire on white was a traditional Spaniard merchant flag before 1785. This seems rather consistent with the aforementioned Consulate of Bilbao. There was a variety for privateering vessels in 1748-1785, with a sort of king's crest with a four-quartered Castilian & Leonese coat & the ceremonial wreath of the Order of the Golden Fleece (ironically this order of chivalry at first was as Burgundian as the Burgundian saltire) in the centre of the flag. I mean privateers with letters of marque, not pirates.

[edit] Today's Spaniard Far-Right

Owing to its connection with Hapsburgian Spain's apogee &, later on, with the Carlist volunteers in the Civil War (1936-39), the Burgundian saltire is to a certain extent popular with midget non-parliamentary Far-Rightish political groups on the lunatic fringe, either Carlists or not. It should be taken into account as well that in Franco´s Spain the Carlist Burgundian saltire was the 3rd co-official Spaniard flag, along with the red-&-yellow banner & the Phalangist one. Aside from this fact, many people think in earnest that the cross of Burgundy was "the Spaniard flag before 1843" (or "before 1785" at times), or even "the Spaniard's Empire flag", a widespread assertion that should be taken with a grain of salt. Ironically, the Leftish Carlist Party uses the cross of Burgundy as its political badge. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.142.175.22 (talk) 11:52, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Today's Spaniard Army

I've already mentioned that the Burgundian saltire appears on colours, badges and shoulder patches (with sub-dued versions for battle dresses' shoulder patches & for field vehicles' decals). Although this sample is far from comprehensive, these are the Burgundian saltires I'm acquainted with, whether time-honoured or just new brand: Royal Guard, King's Immemorial Regiment, Civil Guard (Constabulary), Special Operations Command, Volunteer Reservists, BRIPAC (Parachute Brigade), BRILAT (Light "Airbornable" Brigade), Artillery, FAMET (Army Airmobile Forces)... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.142.175.22 (talk) 10:21, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

"http://es.geocities.com/inmemoriales/index.htm" (click on "Banderas", and then on "Cor(onela) actual" )—Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.142.175.22 (talk) 10:26, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
"http://www.ejercito.mde.es/organizacion/bripac/" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.142.175.22 (talk) 10:31, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The saltires of Baeza (1227)

Aside from the cross of Burgundy, there´s a parallel & former source of saltires in the Castilian heraldrical tradition: the battle of Baeza (Andalusia) against the Moorish in 1227. Either legend or fact, the lineages & territorial levies that took part in the storming of Baeza on Saint Andrew's Day were granted the right to bear saltires on coats of arms & banners. Some people claim that the the Burgundian saltire on king Juan Carlos I's Royal Standard is in fact an homage to the saltire of Baeza. I think they're wrong, but anyway their point of view, however debatable, is to a certain extent rather popular. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.142.175.22 (talk) 10:19, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] A Belgian decoration (1878)

The so-called "la Croix Commémorative des Volontaires de 1830", issued in 1878 and whose recipients had taken part in the 1830 Belgian revolt against the Low Countries. A golden cross of Burgundy is part of that decoration or medal.

"http://www.arquebusiers.be/distinctions.htm"

[edit] Carlos Quinto's Order of the Cross of Burgundy, aka Order of Tunis (1535)

Emperor Charles I of Spain & V of Germany, known as Carlos Quinto. Their troops took Tunis in 1535 to back up a local ally. The Emperor founded a short-lived Order of the Cross of Burgundy in homage to that campaign. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.142.175.22 (talk) 11:55, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Carlos Quinto's standard, Tunis (1535):"http://www.geocities.com/capitolhill/8788/estandar.htm" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.142.175.22 (talk) 11:02, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] A Spaniard Holy Week Brotherhood

It´s the Royal Brotherhood of Our Lady Of the Pains (sic), whose members parade through the streets of Granada (Andalusia) in Easter time shouldering a sort of huge litter with an effigy of the Virgin, to the mourning accompaniment of buglers & kettle-drummers. It´s a Roman Catholic ceremony. The brotherhood's badge bears a cross of Burgundy. It seems the badge is related to the Carlist veterans from the Civil War (1936-39)."http://www.virgendelosdolores.org/frameset.html"

[edit] Leopoldian Sudan (1894)

"http://www.ngw.nl/int/afr/lado.htm"

[edit] Carlism & "Requeté" (Carlist militia)

"http://www.requetes.com" In spite of its ideological bias, this web contains a lot of pictures of Carlist flags and badges. The "Requeté" was a Carlist para-military group, and in the Spanish civil War (1936-39) it raised many crack Francoist units. See "Banderas del Requeté", that is to say, Requeté's flags. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.142.175.22 (talk) 11:56, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
Note: The royal crest of Alfonso Carlos I, Carlist pretender to the throne of Spain in 1931-36, bears a cross of Burgundy. His crest looks like that of king Juan Carlos I.

[edit] Philippeville (Belgium)

The local flag bears a naturalistic yellow cross of Burgundy on blue, among other things. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.142.175.22 (talk) 11:31, 7 May 2008 (UTC)