Talk:Crosby, Stills & Nash (and Young)

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1 Opening sentence
2 Solo and CN information
3 discography
4 LP covers
5 Britain/Canada
6 Well-known songs
7 FM radio hit in Europe, 1989/90
8 Stills link is bad
9 Fair use rationale for Image:CSN album cover 2.jpg
10 Fair use rationale for Image:CSN26Y.jpg

[edit] Opening sentence

The opening sentence: "Crosby, Stills, & Nash (at times known as Crosby, Stills, Nash, & Young) are a pioneering folk rock/rock supergroup" is not only ungrammatical (supergroup is a singular noun), but it also suggests that they are still a "pioneering" group. What exactly are they pioneering on the 1960s nostalgia circuit? They may have been pioneering 35 years ago but today they are a bunch of old hippies living off their fame. Adam 3 July 2005 10:23 (UTC)

So what's the big fuzz? I changed "are" to "is". Surely you can think of a better wording for the "pioneering" thing. --130.238.5.5 09:46, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

Im not sure that i would say that they are living off their fame, they still tour and neil young was nominated for a grammy in 2007. so to say that they are living off their fame would not in any way be accurate. Steven Kovax

[edit] Solo and CN information

KitH- I'm not going to rv back, but I would note that there is as much text in this article on the "Solo years" as there is in the sections "Early years" and "reunion years". If I expand on what you commented, it would then make sense to remove the whole "Solo years" section, as it is not CSN/CSNY. You say "This is an article about CSNY, not CN", but I would think most people would look for information in CN in this article, not in the solo articles. In fact, the only place to find any text on CN is in this article. (There's no mention in Nash, and only a discography in Crosby). So I think this is an article about CN. As for Chicago, I included it because CSNY performed it on a released album. (Same reason I included Southern Man, but Young is a different case because of much greater success of his solo career).

I added the theme section to show that some of the music was related. All 4 members clearly had similar political leanings, and Four Way Street shows this in a number of ways. To me, whether a song was officially a CSN/CSNY song, or a solo/duet song, shouldn't keep the songs out of this section.

Anyone else have any thoughts? Simon12 01:33, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

I am not saying that there isn't a common theme among the music of all four (both in CSN/CSNY and as solo artists). However, this is a CSN(Y) page so the songs under themes should be CSN(Y) songs. I can illustrate this with examples from other artists. The Beatles were also a band where members had similar political leanings. "Revolution" was meant as their statement on the events ofthe late 1960s. However, Lennon also wrote "Give Peace A Chance" and "Instant Karma" as solo songs about the events of the late 1960s, but you wouldn't include those songs on a Beatles' entry. KitHutch 19:45, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

If they had been performed by the Beatles and released on an album by the Beatles, then, yes, I certainly could make the case that they could be mentioned in a Beatles entry. (They would clearly belong in a Beatles discography). I would bet more people own "Chicago" on 4 Way Street then on Nash's solo album, not to mention the song is partially about two other members of the band. Many lyric sites on the web list "Chicago" as a CSNY song. I think for "Chicago", the song is part of their discography, and deserves inclusion in the CSNY entry. Simon12 20:21, 21 April 2006

So that means "Southern Cross" is a Jimmy Buffet song because it was on one of his live CDs? I have been to Allman Brothers Band concerts where they have played "I'm No Angel." That was a solo hit for Gregg Allman, but because it was played at an ABB concert, then it is now a band song? Can Paul McCartney now claim "Something" as his song because it was on his "Back in the USA" CD even though the original Beatles' version was written and sung by George Harrison? How about the McCartney version of Harrison's solo song "All Things Must Pass?" Is that now a McCartney song as well? When it comes to writting some about other people, I guess Neil's acoustic "Needle and the Damage Done" is a Crazy Horse/CSNY song because it is about the death of a Crazy Horse guitarist and a CSNY roadie. KitHutch 20:32, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

To reiterate what I briefly said in the change comment, this article contains the only information on Crosby/Nash in Wikipedia. This article is the accepted place for the Crosby/Nash discography. Crosby & Nash redirects to this page. Therefore, it is clearly appropriate to include information on Crosby/Nash songs in this article. As before, I would appreciate hearing what other people think. Simon12 18:28, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

There is now a Crosby & Nash page. If you can add any information to it, please do so. KitHutch 01:24, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] discography

hello KitH and others - I don't want to be a nuisance about this, but the reason I keep altering the discography is simply because this is the correct way to categorize it. I know allmusic.com places the entries together, but that is to keep their links all on one page - the links here are on one page as well. Also, allmusic is often rife with errors, and is problematic to use as a guide for accuracy. If you check most discographies from books on the group, at least a book published before the rise of the Internet, the format used is the one I am duplicating here. (Although, I was wrong in crediting Long May You Run to Stills & Young as the correct moniker for their one-off project is the Stills-Young band - thanks for correcting me on that.) So the heading for the article should be Crosby Stills & Nash (and Young) as it would be silly to have two articles on the collaborative, but the discographies should be separate, both for syntax reasons, and for the fact that CSN is a very different band with Y on board, as CN is so without S. By the same token, the individual members' discographies belong on their own pages and not here, even with all the cross-pollenization and showing up on each other's records. PS also, please don't quite put this article up as a featured one quite yet - I want to tighten up the organization a bit, add a section on the Crosby & Nash 1970s offshoot, and add a few details here and there. I'm doing a little more research - hope to be done by the end of the month. Thanks all and have a good day.PJtP 00:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

I disagree with listing CSNY's discography separately from CSN's. While the band sounds different with Young onboard, it is still the same band. If you listem to the CSNY album Four Way Street, Nash refers to Deja Vu as their SECOND album. This means that CSNY is count Crosby, Stills & Nash as the first CSNY album. Also several songs from Crosby, Stills & Nash's Greatest Hits come from Deja Vu. That means that Deja Vu counts as a CSN album even though it was released as a CSNY album. We need to correct the discography immediately. KitHutch 14:23, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Hello KitH - I understand that you disagree with this format; I disagree with many things myself. Certainly, Deja Vu is both CSNY's first album and CSN's second album, and the 1991 box set counts as a CSN record even if a good percentage of its tracks are songs from C&N and various solo albums. I must point out again that this is the correct, and I emphasize correct, way to do this discography. I refer you please to the authorized biography of Crosby Stills & Nash by Dave Zimmer and Henry Diltz, published in 1984, St. Martin's Press, New York, ISBN 0-312-17660-0, the first book written specifically about the band. The discography starting on page 263 lists the albums by CSN, CSNY, the Stills-Young Band, and Crosby & Nash separately. Graham Nash contributed the foreword, and again this biography and its format was authorized by the band, including the discographical listings. I am simply duplicating the authorized format; also, most other books that I have read that refer to the group present their discography in this fashion as well. PJtP 04:56, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] LP covers

To whomever added all the LP cover images - It's a fine idea, but the addition of all those covers running down the side of the page swamp the text and make the layout look far too busy. I moved cover image templates to fledgling pages for CSN albums, at least in the case of those yet to have a page, so the cover images are not lost. I'd really prefer to leave the current covers, just the debut, Deja Vu, So Far, and CSN from 77, as is for two reasons: one, they're the CDs I think people should be guided to if they really know little about the band; two, they're the best looking covers of the lot. Better for the page as a whole please would be a good band photograph - do you have one of those kicking around that satisfy the copyright parameters? Thanks.PJtP 05:04, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Britain/Canada

Is it right to describe them as "North American" when Nash was English? Furthermore...why are they credited as being from "United States" on their info box when Nash is from Blackpool and Neil Young is a native of Toronto? When only 50% of the band are from the States why is that the only country mentioned? I've changed the 'country' entry to United States/UK/Canada...whether the group should be referred to as solely 'North American' I leave up to others.

As I understand it, the "origin" field in the infobox is meant to indicate where the band was formed and got started, so the birthplaces of the members are irrelevant. I think United States is appropriate in this case. Strobilus 05:32, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Well-known songs

What is this list based on? It seems entirely subjective to me and should be removed as POV. I suggest replacing it with a list of songs that charted or something with criteria for inclusion. Thoughts? Strobilus 05:32, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] FM radio hit in Europe, 1989/90

An interesting song is missing in the article, "Chipping Away", recorded by CSN (with James Taylor as the fourth vocalist) in 1989 to commemorate the fall of the Berlin Wall. It was quite a success on FM-style radio (if not in terms of sales) in Germany at the time.

I don't have any sales figures for it, but I do have the single! Very typically Nash-oriented as far as its political "feel".

Jtnet 14:28, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Stills link is bad

I'm not sure if this is the proper place for this? I'm quite new to editing Wikipedia (although not new to editing). I discovered that the link to the album Stills redirects to a band called The Stills. If you type Stills into the main Wiki search box, the only link it brings up is The Stills. However, when I punch STILLS ALBUM into Google, the first hit is the Wiki page on the Stills album, which comes up with no problem. Help! How do we fix this? Songsmyth (talk) 23:02, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

The link has been fixed. Stills should really be a dab page, but I'll leave that for someone else. Simon12 (talk) 01:02, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

To get the album, you need to type "Stills (album)" into the search box. 63.215.27.32 (talk) 18:58, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:CSN album cover 2.jpg

Image:CSN album cover 2.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 04:16, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:CSN26Y.jpg

Image:CSN26Y.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

BetacommandBot (talk) 04:20, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

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