Talk:Crocodile

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[edit] Life expectancy??

What is the approximate life expectancy of a crocodile? , 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Answer here: http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/cnhc/cbd-faq-q3.htm Jeremy Bright 23:57, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

The average for a saltwater crocodile is 71 years. But they are one of the largest living crocodilians. Gators only reach have the age at 30-40 years on average. There is also a Freshwater crocodile in Steve Irwin's zoo in Australia, it is 115 years old! It is hard to measure their exact age, because they can outlive us.

Csalbertcs A youtuber.

[edit] Classification chart

The classification chart here is not quite consistent with the one I'm putting into the crocodylia entry. Needs resolution sometime. In particular, is crocodylinae a family, as stated here, or is it a subfamily of the family crocodylidae? For the URL of my source see the crocodylia entry. Andrewa 01:36 9 Jul 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Danger

Hmmm. The edit following my last one seems designed to again minimise the danger that crocodiles pose. It read "Crocodiles of any species should be treated with the care afforded any wild animal, but will not attack unless provoked." I don't think that's true. I think it may well be true of American crocodiles and alligators, but not of the four species I listed. Earlier this year a tourist was killed by a "saltie" in northern Australia, and her only mistake was to believe the tour guide (since charged with manslaughter) who told her that it was safe to swim. The croc's only reason for attacking was that she represented prey.

I'm very concerned that this should be accurate. Those taken in Australia recently have all been overseas tourists. Some of them may well read Wikipedia. Andrewa 09:35 9 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Quite right, Andrew. Crocs are seriously dangerous, and all you have to do is be in the wrong place at the wrong time. I removed the offending sentence. Tannin 10:05 9 Jul 2003 (UTC)

There are also instances of unprovoked attacks on humans by alligators. Rivertorch 06:11, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Woah, I never knew a saltwater crocodile is powerful even at small sizes. What I mean is...just watch the video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAQa4zzyU7s A tiger gets injured by an 8ft (thats an estimate) crocodile. Quite interesting. -Csalbertcs A youtuber.

Ok, so why did the woman get in the water in the first place? She must have been really stupid. And the woman getting in the water proviked the croc. <Dirty Dan>

[edit] Identification

Can someone help me? I want to place the following photograph (I got permission) on the page, but I'm not sure if it's a croc or an aligator. Can someone tell me? See [1] Pascal 16:05, 20 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Great photo. Looks like a saltwater crocodile to me, but I wouldn't take that as an expert opinion. If you find out where it was taken, that would probably tell us, as the ranges of the larger species don't overlap very much at all. Andrewa 15:13, 19 Mar 2004 (UTC)

images preceding and following are clearly African jimfbleak

I'm very wary of that word "clearly" ever since some other Wikipedian edited the acoustic bass guitar article to describe my fretless Eston bass as "fretted". The edit summary reads "it clearly has frets". I've been playing this particular instrument for about 20 years and I think I'd have noticed by now if it did (it does have fretlike markers, like many ABGs).

So, why do you say this? Andrewa 10:29, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Perhaps I need to spell it out: the 156 pictures are someone's holiday snaps including hotel and bus. All the identifiable pictures are of black people, often wearing traditional African dress, or of African animal species like Giraffe, Lion, Hippopotamus or African Elephant. That looks fairly clear to me. jimfbleak

Thank you. That's all I was asking you to do. The black people could be Melanesian, which would make the croc a saltie. But the giraffe, lion, hippo and elephant couldn't be, and there are other hints of Africa too, so you're right, it's probably a nile. I still think it would be good to ask the photographer. Andrewa 19:50, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)

The images were taken in KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa, at the DumaZulu Snake and Crocodile Park (see [2]). That would probably make it a nile, since AFAIK that's the only one occuring here.

[edit] Alligators vs. Crocodiles

Fokelore has it that one can tell alligators and crocodiles apart by their snouts--one is square and the other is tapered. Can someone confirm this, and if so, add it to the page? Well I'm from Australia and from what I've seen (very inexpert opinion, mind you), the alligators you see in Florida etc... have rounder snouts, and look well, less dangerous than the saltwater crocs here. Maybe because they're further away ;-) Almost cute...

I live in Australia and I've never heard of a saltwater crocodile being called an "alligator". They are locally known as "salties". The freshwater variety is called a "freshie".

i think the fokelore is true. also aligaters teeth r inside thier mouth when they shut it as to crocs thier teeth stick out over thier lip. pease out. jaimi'the taitonater'tait

(another reader: I have also never heard of them being called alligators in Australia - maybe it is something just for the tourists)

Perhaps maybe the 'saltie' and 'freshie' terms are relatively recent terms; it seems that 'alligator' is used in more older references (older than the 60s or so) and the saltie/freshie terms are more recent. I've actually heard more use of alligators in Africa, and of course few older popular sources bothered to distinguish between alligators and caimans in South or Central America. CFLeon 20:48, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

1.Crocodiles have a V shaped snouts, while alligators have U shaped snouts.
2.When a crocodile's mouth is shut, all it's teeth stick out, when an alligator's mouth is closed, only the teeth in it's upper jaw stick out.
3.Crocodiles can tolerate salt better than alligators.
4.Crocodiles are more aggresive than alligators. (Well, most of the time...)

211.72.233.3 09:51, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

5. Alligators also have a stronger jaw pressure. A crocodile has to weigh 20% more then an alligator to have a stronger bite force. Luckily, a saltwater crocodile is capable of weighing more then 700 pounds more then your average gator. -Csalbertcs A youtuber.

20% more? You mean an Alligator has an equal Bite Force to a Saltwater Crocodile 20% Longer -croc2005 A Youtuber

[edit] Size of crocs

I just saw a National Geographic on a huge Nile crocodile called Gustave that made a living as a man-eater in Burundi, Africa. They said it was probably no less than twenty feet and perhaps more. There were shots of it next to hippos and it was virtually as large as them. Are we sure Salties are actually bigger than the largest Nile crocs? What is the documentation for that? I'm wondering if this is analogous to the old tiger/lion and Kodiak/polar bear 'which is really bigger' question.

Most sources I've seen state:

Polar bear > brown/Kodiak/grizzly/whatever bear
tiger > lion
saltwater crcodile > Nile crocodile

Dora Nichov 03:50, 20 August 2006 (UTC) i'v heard aligators have rounded snouts when crocs have pointier snouts --The tiger has many subsspecies and several of them are in general smaller than average lions. In fact most tigers are not larger than average lions and the famous siberian tigers are mainly the heaviest big cats because they have large fat-deposits. Kamtchatkan and kodiak bears are also often larger than average polar bears. Saltwater crocodiles seems to grow more often to very large sizes over 5m than nile crocodiles, but at the same length, nile crocodiles seems to be a bit buklkier.

It depends on which way you look at things. The AVERAGE size of lions may be bigger than tigers (same with brown and polar bears and the crocodiles), but the MOST MASSIVE of tigers are larger than lions (same with the others). Dora Nichov 07:01, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Which crocodiles eat people

I'd dispute the part about which crocodiles eat people; AFAIK there are no known cases of black caiman attacks, but the American Alligator and American Crocodile are known to attack and eat people. Also I believe there may be cases of Orinoco and Siamese crocodiles attacking people. Amygdala

The Nile and SaltWater Crocodiles are MAJOR man-eaters throughout most of their range, and the Mugger also is known to eat people occasionally. The Black Caiman is reported to be a man-eater also, although I have never heard any details or a specific instance. In the last few decades the American Alligator has had a couple of high-profile cases of killing people and eating them, but I've never heard of any reliable reports from before the 1950s. The American Crocodile is more problematic; there are reports of man-eating in South America, but I think only a single instance a few years ago of a crocodile even attacking a person in Florida. Other than those, I don't know of any other species with any actual evidence against them; although all (except perhaps the dwarf species) have vague reputations of being man-eaters like any other large carnivore. Complicating the issue is that crocs aren't picky whether they make a meal or find a meal (they will eat dead bodies that they don't kill themselves) and they often swallow heavy objects for ballast (this no doubt explains gharials found with jewelry in their stomachs). Also, realize that even being a real man-eater doesn't mean that every individual animal will do so, it's that there's a high total number of attacks by the species in general. ANY large animal will attack in certain circumstances (cornering them can do it), and crocs are strong, have nasty teeth and powerful jaws, and are rather territorial; which all combine to make them very dangerous to people that piss them off. Especially NEVER get between a female and her nest!!!CFLeon 20:48, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Does anyone know of a reliable source for numbers of human victims/attacks? The "kill hundreds every year" figure sounds quite over-estimated. CFLeon 23:20, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Oviducts

Do all (female) crocodiles have two oviducts, or just certain species? Might be an interesting "factoid" for the article. Kevin Saff 15:04, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I never could understand the term 'factoid'. It MEANS 'like a fact' or 'fact-resembling'; in other words, it's NOT TRUE!!! But the claim is that they ARE true. Someone didn't know their Latin! Probably thought it was a dimunitive, 'a little fact'. CFLeon 20:48, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Flying crocs

Can we get more information about crocodiles getting wings and being able to fly in the migratory season? I've never seen a winged or flying croc. Maybe a picture would be nice.

Sounds like a crock of monkey snot to me. Can't see it in the article either. --Kizor 18:14, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

Maybe a joke?? I once saw a cartoon with flying crocs or gators (it was a OZ cartoon in the '60s). CFLeon 20:48, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

dylan suter is dum from jaimi

IS THIS A TOTAL JOKE? Whoever heard of a flying crocodile? Most absurd thing I've ever heard of! Silly! Outrageous! That was a good one! 211.72.233.3 09:53, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Come on you never heard of them! They live with the backward talking millipeeds and walking kangaroos. Enlil Ninlil 08:39, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

And let's not forget the honest politicians. Rivertorch 18:51, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Sure. And the furry naked-mole rats and the mongooses that are scared of snakes. Dora Nichov 00:39, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Here be dragons. Peter Pan 15:53, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Growth and lifespan

I remember reading that crocodiles - or at least some species - are frighteningly long-lived, and never stop growing. Can someone confirm or deny? This would fit the article nicely. --Kizor

-In fact the growth of crocodiles nearly completely stuns when the become older.

[edit] Who claims what?

The line, "This is why some Americans will claim that alligators, not crocodiles, are the dangerous ones." seems out of place, as the rest of the paragraph references naming inconsistencies in Australia. It seems logical to assume that the naming inconsistencies would cause Australians to refer to 'alligators' as more dangerous than crocodiles. I don't want to make the change, as maybe this is all intentional. It seems slightly awkward though, and could definitely at least use an editorial glance.169.232.78.27 04:03, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Imperial units

I'd suggest you change them to SI units. Now this article is rather inaccessible to most of the world.

This has been done for the "largest crocodiles" section. I don't know how to convert pounds per square inch to SI units, but in that case, it's the proportion that seems to matter more than the measurement. Graham/pianoman87 talk 12:30, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

The best way to do it is to put the metric units in brackets after the Imperial ones. Whenever you do a measurement conversion you introduce some error so the original value should reamain first. Of course, if you find a source with metric values or if the values were approximate to begin with, then go ahead and put the metric values first. However, I wouldn't replace the Imperial units with metric ones. It doesn't hurt to have both. Jimp 07:06, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bogus Species?

The List of species includes four that seem to be original, with no attribution for any of them. These are:

1) Sumatran crocodile- Crocodylus sumatrae
2) Indonesian crocodile- C. indonesiae
3) Irwin's crocodile- C. irwinii
4) Australian white crocodile- C. australiae

Googling the names gives no results other than Wikipedia or derived information. And crocodilian.com has no mention of any of the 4, not even as junior synonyms for established species. The only conclusion is that someone has pulled another fast one on Wikipedia and just invented something to be published as fact. CFLeon 02:57, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

OK, thanks, they have been removed. I think these mythical species have propogated to non-english wikipedias. And why on earth would you name a crocodile species after Steve Irwin? That would have made big news if it was true, especially in Australia. Graham/pianoman87 talk 06:51, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

The only wikipedia editions I know of which contained these species were the Thai wikipedia and the Vietnamese wikipedia. I have removed both of these. Graham/pianoman87 talk 13:42, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Add to that the Latin wikipedia and the Spanish wikipedia. I have removed those. This google search doesn't indicate any more instances of the bogus species. Graham/pianoman87 talk 10:02, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

I've also removed the bogus species from es:Crocodylus. I don't know what the difference is between that article and es:Crocodylidae, but they both originally had the inaccuracy. Graham talk 13:51, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

An alligator nest at Everglades National Park, Florida.

[edit] Pictures ali vs croc

If the picture of aligator nest is aligators, would that be more relevent in the aligator article?
Can someone double check that my large croc pic is definitley a croc (photo taken in place outside cairns) - I don't want to make the same mistake :)
Likewise to the recently uploaded picture of a croc (from the same place) MartinRe 10:52, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Why have a picture of an alligator in an article on crocs? Jimp 07:12, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Doesn't make sense to me either. dewet|™ 10:24, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Saboteur

I'm just a user and I don't feel that it's my place to edit this entry, but FYI someone's put this: "none of this information is true because anyone can type anything they want to on this website." at the end of the taxonomy section.

Also, on 12/4/7 I (different person than person above) removed "and they kick ass" from a description of the crocodiles. I am guessing crocs are somebody's favorite animal...... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.125.49.252 (talk) 21:44, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Problem on American Crocodile

I don't know the procedure here- but at the linked entry for American Crocodile, there's someone who insists without reference that C. acutus is the only species in the Americas and deletes ANY AND ALL information to the contrary. I never even heard there was a controversy and crocodilian.com has no mention either... (Only an idea: Could this be the same poster who put up the bogus species here some time ago?) CFLeon 21:30, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Just keep on discussing the issue with Jimfbleak on The American crocodile discussion page. Directly editing the article would also make your case stronger; especially adding reliable sources might convince him to change his mind. When editing the main article, also provide a helpful edit summary, especially when making major edits. Summarise these major edits on the talk page, maybe putting in the edit summary "see talk" or similar. I'm sorry I can't help more, but I don't know much about crocodiles and their subspecies - maybe both of you are partially right on the issue, I don't know.

I don't think this is a good thing, but many wikipedians judge a user's worth on the project by whether or not they have a user page. It doesn't have to be much; perhaps just a listing of your interests, quallifications, hobbies ETC. Also, try editing actual articles; Wikipedia:Be bold in updating pages is one of the key guidelines around here. Don't worry too much if the formatting isn't good; someone will usually fix formatting mistakes sooner or later - see m:eventualism. I sometimes feel awful being bold, but in my experience a surprising number of articles are unwatched, and requests on talk pages sometimes take a while to be granted. Therefore, it's better to edit articles yourself if you can - just talk about any major edits on discussion pages, as you already do.

The user who added the bogus species is 211.29.234.85. That user also added inaccurate information to several other articles like tree kangaroo and Tom Jones (singer), most of which was not cleaned up until I found it bnearly five months later. I think that reflects very badly on the accuracy of wikipedia. The contributions list is interesting to look at though. -- Graham talk 11:11, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] More Taxonomy

I've edited the taxonomy section a bit- added some alternative names (I've heard the Mugger called the Indian Crocodile quite a bit, but NEVER the Persian Crocodile except at an Iranian zoo site) and mentioned the Dwarf Crocodile controversy. I'm relatively new in editing actual pages, so if I've screwed up in form, please correct. (I stand by the actual content, however.)CFLeon 03:27, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New Taxonomy-related papers

Two papers just came out with implications for crocodile taxonomy. At the very least, maybe they should be mentioned in the text.

McAliley LR, Willis RE, Ray DA, White PS, Brochu CA, Densmore LD 3rd (2006). "Are crocodiles really monophyletic?--Evidence for subdivisions from sequence and morphological data." Mol Phylogenet Evol. 39(1):16-32.
- The authors use molecular studied of croc relationships, and find that the African slender snouted crocodile Crocodylus cataphractus is more basal than Crocodylus or Osteolaemus (dwarf crocodile). Therefore, it belongs in its own genus, and they use the previously erected generic name Mecistops.

Janke A, Gullberg A, Hughes S, Aggarwal RK, Arnason U. (2005). "Mitogenomic analyses place the gharial (Gavialis gangeticus) on the crocodile tree and provide pre-K/T divergence times for most crocodilians." J Mol Evol. 61(5):620-6.
- Similar genetic evidence shows gharials to actually be close relatives of "false" gharials, in a sister group to other members of Crocodylidae. They abandon Gavialidae and place gharials and false gharials in a more inclusive Crocodylidae (I assume based on the phylogenetic definition of that family). IIRC, if this is used, gharials and false gharials could still [b]e included in groups called Tomistominae and Gavialinae within Crocodylidae.Dinoguy2 18:07, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

I've reverted the recent changes to the classification section. While the new information should certainly be mentioned, you have gone TOO far by editing the article to reflect the "suggestions" based on a single study. Just because one researcher/team "suggests" such realignments doesn't make it generally accepted. The new reports are just one opinion and if we start changing information based on a single study, anyone can claim ANY change (such as the two problems mentioned above). It would really help if a second study backs up the first or a second authority agrees. Is there a recognized world authority for Herpetology, like the IAU for astronomy? If so, then wait until they pass their judgement on the new studies or a second team backs up the first. This is how Science works. Remember, DNA and immuniological studies have given conflicting reports about the relationship of the Tomistoma (False Gharial); some studies indicating that it's closer to the Crocodylidae and others that it's closer to the Gavialidae. My point is don't go rearranging information based on one recent report. CFLeon 21:06, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

On another topic, I think your fix-up of the layout looks pretty good, Dinoguy. I would quibble a bit about the ordering of some of the subgroups (I think Classification is more important that a relative trivial discussion about Size, for instance), but it looks better than it was. CFLeon 21:21, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

My mistake, when nobody replied to this I pretty much assumed the changes could be used in the article without objection.Dinoguy2 22:50, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] lack of references to extinct species of crocodiles

A quick suggestion: many people who make inquiry into this subject want the access to information on ALL species of crocodile, not just those species presently alive. In view of this I recommend AT LEAST adding some links to articles on extinct species already included in Wikipedia (e.g., Wikipedia's article on sarcosuchus).

Links to Sarcosuchus can be found in the more broad entry Crocodilia. Sarcosuchus should not be included on this page as it only covers the family Crocodylidae, while Sarcosuchus is a member of a completely different suborder, Mesosuchia.Dinoguy2 13:15, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Crocodile embryos

I think this should be included in trivia, what do you think ?

Croc. embryos do not have sex chromosomes, and sex is not determined genetically. Rather, sex is determined by temperature - mostly males are produced at around 31.6 degrees C, with more females produced at slightly lower and higher temperatures. Mean incubation period is around 80 days, and is dependent upon temperature.

Source : http://www.kingsnake.com/oz/crocs/porosus.htm and several other sites.

true thats very important to mention. 72.27.194.125 (talk) 19:47, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Rename

Article should be renamed to "Croc" as that is now the official word for a crocodile. In memory Steve. --80.203.92.240 06:27, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Citation? I never heard that one before! Dora Nichov 00:40, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Crocodile disease

If someone wants to integrate this information into the article it would be interesting I think. Ansell 07:19, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reproduction

The article would benefit from a passage on reproductive behavior. What's the courtship procedure? Where do the eggs go? Are the young nurtured? That sort of thing. TheMadBaron 10:45, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

It varies from species to species. Nile Crocodiles nurture their young well in comparison to other reptiles. The Nile Crocs lay their eggs in some sort of dirt mound. --24.22.212.250 19:24, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Popular Culture

I think there should be a section on Crocodiles/Crocodilians in Popular Culture. Any thoughts? --24.22.212.250 19:24, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Evolutionary history

I've heard that crocodiles are some of the oldest species still alive today (resistance to evolutionary change). I'd be interested if anyone could add information about their fossil record, or possibly how they have changed since earlier geologic periods. 128.195.18.170 23:02, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Crocodiles as a family, yes, have been around for quite some time. However, Specific species of crocodiles are relatively recent. And the family has changed; just so little that humans can't see it. But I see your point. They're 'old', sure, but compared to cockroaches, corals, scorpions, sphenodonts, etc, they're new guys on the block.--24.22.212.250 01:50, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Habitat?

This article seems to lack information on crocodiles's habitat.

Wetlands. Isn't that rather basic information? (I'm sorry if I offend you with that phrase). Dora Nichov 09:39, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What are welters?

Article says "All large crocodiles also have sharp welters and powerful claws.", but I can't find anything on Wikipedia that defines what the term means. Definition or link to appropriate article, anyone? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.25.203.200 (talk) 18:59, 5 January 2007 (UTC).

  as far as i know welters are like a big jumble with no order.  could it mean jumbles of teeth perhaps?

[edit] Bite me

How many teeth have they got? More or fewer than gators? Marlin Perkins 05:04, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Um. . . I think the amount of teeth actually varies because they always have some falling out and growing back- but the amount they'd have if all the sockets were full, you will have to ask someone more knowledgeable than me. ````oddball 2002

64-68 teeth of a mature saltie. -Csalbertcs A youtuber.

They could regrow their teeth, but when they reach over 50 years of age it doesn't regrow. -Croc2005

[edit] Size

The current size section is fairly disorganized and not terribly clearly sourced. I'm going to remove the recent addition of "In January of 2007 a huge 7 meter Estuarine (Saltwater) Crocodile was shot and killed in Papua New Guinea after reportedly killing several locals- http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,21064163-5006003,00.html" for a few reasons. 1) From the rest of the size section, it doesn't appear to be a record-breaking saltwater crocodile. 2) The source says only one person was killed, the article text says "several". 3) When adding citations, please use the conventions at How to cite sources, and specifically use the format currently used in the article; in this case, please use footnotes. If another source, with a more precise length measure, can be found, and the section organized, I think this might be a GREAT addition to the article. However, as it stands, I'm reverting the change. Enuja 20:00, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

I spend a lot of time photographing the Saltwater crocodiles of Australia.....and none of these sizes are over-exaggerations. Much of the information in question on this page can be easily verified. First off......there is a CONFIRMED 23 foot living crocodile in Orissa, India and there was recently a 22 foot crocodile killed in New Guinea. The largest OFFICIAL crocodile ever measured was on the Norman River in Queensland...it measured 28 feet in length and a cast was made (and is still on display). The only crocodillians that are capable of killing a man are the Saltwater crocodile, the Nile crocodile, the American crocodile, the Black caiman, the American Alligator and quite possibly the Mugger crocodile.....no more. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.239.243.21 (talk • contribs)

Hi! Please sign your posts on talk pages (do so simply by typing four tildles ~~~~). I wasn't questioning that the crocodile killed in Papua New Guinea was about 7 meters; it's just that the other record crocodiles are slightly longer than 7 meters, so I didn't see how the length of a 7 meter crocodile was worth mention in the "size" section. Also, my biggest problem with the Size section is the organization. If you know sources for the largest crocodiles, or are interested in looking them up, by all means re-organize the section. Please don't just add facts to the end of it, though; craft a section that is clear, organized, and communicates the size of crocodiles. Enuja 04:35, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Differentiation with Alligators

I was alerted to this section by another poster's questions about it that were posted on Talk:Crocodilia. Does this section really belong here, in crocodile? I think that this subject would be better covered in the Crocodilia article. On to the text.

While often confused with each other, alligators and crocodiles belong to two quite separate taxonomic families, and are as distinct from one another as humans are from gorillas. As for appearance, one generally reliable rule is that alligators have U-shaped heads, while crocodiles are V-shaped - which can be remembered by noting that "A" in alligator comes before "C" in crocodile, and "U" comes before "V".

I don't think the human and gorillia comparasion is particularly useful. The memory device reads a bit like a how-to to me, but I could see how others might like it. This section is really short at the moment, and I'd obviously like to move it before it is expanded. One good place to learn more is the Crocodilian Biology Database's FAQ about croc vs. gators. [5] Enuja 04:17, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Gorillas and humans are in the same SUBFAMILY. Crocodiles and Alligators are different families.Eriorguez 00:16, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I think this should be a separate article entirely which could then be linked from the top of both Alligator and Crocodile up with the disambiguations. I'll do it if a few people agree. Mfield (talk) 21:21, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Crocogator

Is it possible to crossbreed a crocodile and alligator to produce a crocogator —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.77.202.131 (talk) 16:53, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Translation into Chinese Wikipedia

The version 12:22, 8 November 2007 DumbBOT of this article was translated into Chinese Wikipedia.--Philopp 15:36, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GUSTAVE

What about GUSTAVE isnt he like the biggest croc in the world {20m}. 72.27.194.125 (talk) 19:45, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sleep

Does anyone know why crocs sleep with their mouth open? so they can catch flies — Rlevse • Talk • 14:25, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Location of differentiation between crocs and gators

The split and merge templates on the difference between crocs and gators on Alligator and Crocodile now both point here. Personally, I think that the difference between the two should be in Crocodilia, not in either of the sub-pages. - Enuja (talk) 03:25, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree. I think Crocodilia is a great spot for this section. StevePrutz (talk) 04:04, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree and per what I wrote in the section, I'll do the (small amount of) work of moving it if some people agree. Either into a separate article, or into Crocodilia. Mfield (talk) 00:24, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

If anyone can find a free close-up photo of a croc's snout and exposed fourth tooth, it would add a lot to the proposed section about differentiation. StevePrutz (talk) 05:07, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

I'll have a look and see if I have a croc image that fits this and if I have I'll upload it to Commons. Mfield (talk) 00:24, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

How about this? It's the most illustrative I could come up with and upload from my archive. I added a section with a citation about it to the Crocodile and Alligator articles in the differentiation sections. I am still up for merging these sections into a section in Crocodilia, that seems to make more sense than keeping two parallel sets of identical information. Mfield (talk) 22:29, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Kudos to you, Mfield! StevePrutz (talk) 10:55, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Merging is a good idea and putting the merged content on Crocodilia is a good idea too. Please also develop pairs of comparison photos or illustrations so readers who are not already familiar with these differences can see the differences. --Una Smith (talk) 23:04, 31 May 2008 (UTC)