Talk:Criminal (comics)

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[edit] Complete spoilers for the story arcs?

I'll probably edit the "Story Arcs" section, partially because it completely misses the character of Ivan; partially because it has a couple glaring inaccuracies (it's Donnie, not Donna); and partially because I don't think the line about "sheer luck" can be justified, as the calamity it references was the direct result of Leo's choices. I'll probably just replace the info with a brief summary of the premise of "Coward" -- mostly from information that can be gleaned from the first issue of the five-part arc -- but what I'm wondering is whether we should include everything from each story arc in the first place, spoilers and all. For one thing, since this is going to be an ongoing series, it may be that adding all that information in a way that would do justice to the intricate plot will eventually make the page too long. I'm thinking the summaries should be more like what's currently found (Apr 30 2006) on the page for Gotham Central than for The Walking Dead. -- BubbaTheGenius 11:00, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

While there is justification in establishing a separate page for the story arcs as in Ultimate X-Men, I do not think that providing brief summaries from the first issue is the solution here. That would be akin to advertising and wikipedia should not advertise or assist any publication. Wikipedia is a source of information and as such, providing information on the plot is more than justifiable. I agree that the intricate plot might be misinterpreted but then whatever section that is debatable should be removed or changed. Whatever can be agreed upon through general consensus should be allowed to stay put.

On the whole, it's highly unlikely that the article will consist of inaccurate information as if this were a danger then all articles regarding comics, tv series, etc would be under similar threat. If the article becomes too long then that bridge must be crossed when it occurs and a separate page must then be created so as to unburden the article. Zuracech lordum 15:45, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

To be clear, I'm not suggesting a summary of the first issue. I'm suggesting just posting the premise of the first arc, with information that can primarily be derived from the first issue. That is, it would explain who (at least some of) the main characters are -- Leo, Greta, Ivan, Donnie, Seymour, and Jeff -- without explaining what happens to all of them by the end of the series. It would explain the premise of the heist without explaining what happens during the heist. I'm new to Wikipedia, and I'm just wondering if the preference is for full-spoiler plots (like in the entry for The Walking Dead) or spoiler-free summaries of each story arc's premise (like in Gotham Central). What do you suggest?

If it is the case that we should provide full spoilers, I do think the summary could use a little work. For instance, Leo recruits "Donnie", not "Donna"; I'm not sure how one can justify saying Leo escapes through "sheer luck"; and we would definitely need info about Ivan and -- equally important -- what Leo's afraid of, the secret on which the entire resolution hinges. I'd be happy to offer my revisions, if you don't mind.

And, I'm planning to add some info about the more unique aspects of Criminal: the cinematic preview "trailer", the Undertow, the Frank Kafka comic, and the essays in the back of each issue. -- BubbaTheGenius 13:24, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, from my limited experience so far, there is a preference to full summaries of each story arc with spoilers provided. A brief, teasing summary might seem like adopting copyvio i.e. it might seem like you've copied the promotional summaries put forward in the book jackets and on websites.

Also, if you're new to wikipedia then basically all you need to know is that you can do damn well what you please. I realise that the summary isn't completely accurate and I'm going to revisit it soon but anyone else can choose to edit it and rewrite it completely if they want. Wikipedia moves through consensus and so no one person owns an article or is in charge.

Regarding the essays at the back of the book, I can't say I've read them but would the information there be related to Criminal? Or are they more like the author's opinion and the opinions of other writers, in a way like the traditional letters page but now including a more specific list of submitters? But yes, the article does need expanding a great deal. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Zuracech lordum (talk • contribs) 02:45, 2 May 2007 (UTC).

I certainly wouldn't have copied and adopted the promotional teaser for issue #1; what I had in mind was a wholly original summary of the premise. All that said, I've had a look at entries for higher profile comic books: the "featured article" for Watchmen, the "good article" for The Transformers (IDW Publishing), and the entries for Batman: The Dark Knight Returns and compilations for Sin City and Bone. Yeah, the norm is for spoilers in the articles, so I won't change that here. I might not completely rewrite the summary you privided, Zuracech, but I'll revise it if you don't beat me to it. If the summaries eventually get too long, we could split them into pages for the compilations as they're published and have a brief paragraph about the "premise" linking to the new page.

The essays in the back can relate directly to the world of Criminal, but not always. In issue 1, there was an essay about the night of Ricky Lawless' wake written from the point of view of Gnarly, the bartender at the Undertow. Since then, there have been essays about noir films. For instance, in issue 3, Ande Parks wrote an essay about the Orson Welles' classic, Touch of Evil, and in issue 4, Patton Oswalt wrote one about the obscure film, Blast of Silence. I think the information is noteworthy because these essays aren't comparable to a letters page, which Criminal also has. Maybe we should continue discussing these essays if/when someone posts info about them. -- BubbaTheGenius 14:39, 2 May 2007 (UTC)