Talk:Crime in Washington, D.C.

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Contents 1 Crime 2 NYC comparison 3 Gun control laws 3.1 Generally 3.2 Virginia 4 Cause & effect? 5 Who is deleting the overview? 6 Notable incidents 7 DC v.s Fairfax County 8 Gentrification

[edit] Crime

Violent crime isn't the only crime in DC. As violent crime has decreased in the city, robberies have been soaring. See The Common Denominator[1] for October 2005 numbers.

These statistics do not take into account the unreported robberies. In Columbia Heights many robberies do not get reported because the victims are recent immigrants, many illegal, who do not speak English, do not trust the police and who get paid in cash. Many long time residents will also not report crimes to the police because there was a time when many officers would pass along a complainants personal information to drug dealers. --unsigned by 156.80.172.222

You make some good points. Yes, there has been a recent spike in robberies in DC and feel free to note that in this article. And, the number of robberies is still drastically less than 10 years ago (3057 in 2004 vs. 6311 in 1994) [2]. Though, you're correct to note the decrease in robberies in the past decade has been far less substantial for the 3rd district (as well as the 6th district). In the rest of the city, the decrease has been very substantial.

As for the percentage of robberies not reported to the police, yes it's a significant portion. Nationally, only 61% of robberies [3] (2004) were reported to the police. Though, the percentage of robberies has been fairly consistent (55-61%) since 1993 (when these statistics were first collected). I'm not sure the portion of robberies reported to police in Columbia Heights has changed subtantially either over that time period, to skew the trends and numbers. --Aude 16:57, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

True. I just felt it was important to note that despite the overall, and significant, drop in crime from 10 years ago, some crimes are experiencing local spikes, possibly due to resentment generated by gentrification and the opportunities (for more rewarding criminal activity) provided by it. Now, I'm not talking 1993 levels here, but with the revitalization going on in the neighborhoods mentioned in the article, ready targets for crime are more numerous than they were even two years ago. I think I was mainly trying to point out that you are more likely to be robbed in D.C. than you are to be murdered, and it seemed like crime in dc would be an appropriate place to mention it.

I really don't know enough about conditions in the rest of the city to be able to comment on them. --unsigned by Pdags

Thanks for the good thoughts. When I get a chance, I can try to articulate these important nuances in the article. If you look at the MPDC crime stats, you also see that auto thefts have gone up gradually over the years in District 3. So maybe some crime stats like homicide respond differently to forces of gentrification than do other types of crime (e.g. robbery and auto theft). Do the same patterns hold true for neighborhoods in other cities that have experienced gentrifcation (e.g. Boston, New York?)? I don't know the answer. --Aude 18:56, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Keep in mind that FBI statistics include robbery as a "violent crime." The 2004 statistics do account for robbery (although that does not account for this year's crime wave).

In the spring of 2008, a series of incidents wherein multiple shootings occurred inside a short period of time inspired DC to repeatedly initiate "All Hands on Deck" responses, in which patrol officers flood the streets. Foot patrols were deployed, with officers walking the streets in twos or threes, many in bulletproof vests. The goal of increased police visibility was achieved; however, shootings continued to occur, some near "hotspots" and police stations. Typically, the primary result of these "crime emergencies" is a large number of arrests on minor charges, many involving drugs and outstanding warrants. Prechuredrop (talk) 16:13, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] NYC comparison

I don't think this NYC comparison is needed here. While it's helpful that Mr Brown added qualifications to the comparison (see below), I think the comparison should just be omitted, as the explanation I think needs to be far more nuanced. I also don't agree with a blanket statement "the worst sections of New York were regarded as similarly violent as anywhere in D.C." — crime is highly localized to certain neighborhoods. This is explained in the article, in regards to D.C. and how the crime patterns have shifted. And, not all parts of D.C. were as violent as the "worst" sections of NYC (most of D.C., west of Rock Creek Park, has been generally safe all along; much safer than the "worst" sections of NYC).

By contrast, when New York City, with 7.3 million people at the time, hit its highest homicide count and rate with 2,245 murders in 1990, this meant a murder rate of "only" 30.66 per 100,000. It has to be said though that the worst sections of New York were regarded as similarly violent as anywhere in D.C., but due to New York's murder rate being spread across a far larger population which includes a far higher percentage of upper/middle class areas, the rates between D.C. and larger American/world cities are skewed somewhat.

-Aude (talk | contribs) 22:02, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gun control laws

[edit] Generally

Adding something about the recent decisions by the Circuit Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit seems very relevant here. A 3-judge panel of the court ruled the DC gun laws unconstitutional, and the full court refused to hear the matter in May 2007 -- the District now has 90 days to decide whether to appeal to SCOTUS.croll 18:29, 6 June 2007 (UTC) (Edit: Nevermind. I see it now at the end of a paragraph.)

[edit] Virginia

This statement added by 12.96.58.22 lacks any sources and has been removed:

"Those same critics also fail to point out that in Virginia where there is virtually no gun control, that crime is much lower, even in areas adjacent to the city such as Fairfax and Arlington."

As well, I think this argument is flawed, as crime rates have much more to do with socio-economic factors than anything else. Fairfax and Arlington have very median household incomes, compared to Washington, D.C. and the national average. [4] A far more suitable comparison is to Richmond, Virginia, which was ranked the 9th most dangerous city in the United States [5] in 2005. Despite that, I highly doubt Richmond's crime rate has anything more/less to do with gun control laws than does D.C.'s crime rate.

Nonetheless, if reputable references backing up "those same critics", then I would consider reinserting the statement. -Aude (talk | contribs) 14:44, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Another similar comment has been posted just yesterday, this time pakcing an extra bit of non-NPOV: "Guns are not the problem. On the contrary, lax criminal penalties and laws that disarm the law-abiding are responsible for giving criminals a safer working environment" Not only is this heavily biased and lacking in credibility, it is an over-simplified and guileless assumption followed by no punctuation mark. No offense meant though; I see your point, 167.21.1.225, you just have to back it up and check your grammar/style. -Sebsmoot 03:01, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

I have included the homicide rates from 2006 in Richmond and Baltimore for comparison in the gun control section. They are based on the latest complete FBI statistics. Hopefully they will contribute to the reader's understanding of whether Washington's gun laws affect the homicide rate. I know this is a politically sensitive issue, having grown up in Washington, but these are non-partisan statistics, so please don't vandalize them. Nlandau (talk) 07:19, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cause & effect?

This sentence:

Crime rates in Washington have been dropping consistently for over ten years, and as a result gentrification has swept eastward across the District....

oversimplifies a very complex process that has been occurring in Washington, DC. For example, the opening of several new Metro stations has had at least as large an effect on gentrification in several neighborhoods (U Street, Columbia Heights) as the decrease in crime. MrDarwin 20:34, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

I wrote that as an edit to the previous statement that gentrification itself is the cause of the drop in Washington's violent crime rate. I am a native of Washington, and the trend is almost always that gentrification occurs when it is perceived that a neighborhood is becoming safer. The Metro does have an influence, as do housing prices, commuting distances, nearby nightlife, etc. I did take umbrage to the assertion that the dislocation of locals, like myself, is the *cause* of the drop in Washington's crime over the past 15 years.

I see that someone has again included a long section stating that gentrification is the cause in the drop in crime rates, without attribution that this is in fact the cause. Gentrification has undoubtedly occurred, but many other things could be the causes of the drop in crime. For one thing, crime has dropped nationally since 1992, more police were put on the streets, assault weapons were banned for 12 years, etc. I can't say which of these things (if any) caused a drop in the crime rate, but one can't say that gentrification was the cause, either. The assertion that pushing out the local Washingtonians is the direct and sole cause of the drop in crime smacks of bigotry. Anyway, absent some substantive support, some milder and more verifiable language should be inserted. I hope you approve of my edits in this area.

Nlandau (talk) 07:25, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Who is deleting the overview?

I keep adding an overview, reciting Washington's key violent crime indicators and what they mean for a city of Washington's size. This is quite salient. Also, it took a fair amount of work to download the FBI statistics in spreadsheet format and rank Washington against other cities of 100,000+ residents, and it is strange that the information was deleted without comment.

[edit] Notable incidents

What makes a crime incident notable? It's good that the list hasn't gotten out of hand like lists of notables found in other articles, but perhaps we should define a scope now? There have got to be hundreds or thousands of 'incidents' of crime that received alot of media coverage, such as the mugging of Supreme Court justice David Souter, or the mugging of Theresa Heinz Kerry, or the espionage cases, or the congressional approval of the iraq war... the list can go on and on. Should we limit the list to violent crimes? homicides? -Taco325i 17:10, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Doesn't apply directly, but see Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history#Popular_culture for my opinion on this type of issue. The incident needs to have a notable impact on policy or other major impact of some sort. The list should eventually be put into more of a prose/narrative form, and incorporated into the rest of the article. --Aude (talk) 16:23, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] DC v.s Fairfax County

That section where it compares the murder rate in Fairfax County and DC is extremely misleading. Fairfax County is the richest county in Virginia, and the population is predominantly white and Korean suburbans. They're two very, very, very different places.

[edit] Gentrification

How can anyone be 100% certain that gentrification was the cause of reduced violent crime? Is there any evidence that can prove irrefutably that gentrification was the cause of the (somewhat) decreased violent crime rate? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.14.108.181 (talk) 03:59, 8 June 2008 (UTC)