Talk:Crete

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[http://www.wikinfo.org/wiki.php?title=Cretan/Spartan_connection Wikinfo:Cretan/Spartan On the main page, someone erroneously states that Mount Ida (a.k.a. Idha, Ídhi, Idi and now Psiloritis) is the highest mountain in Greece.

Untrue. Mount Olympus is much taller (9570 feet/2919 meters, vs. 8057 feet/2456 meters for Mount Ida).

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[edit] Famous Cretans

As a Cretan, i don't think that the last two cretans are so important to be mentioned in the page, also compared to the other cretan artists, politicians and philosophers, previously mentioned in the same paragraph. I think they could be removed, otherwise, the paragraph could end up with a huge number of other well known cretan people.

  1. Nikos Machlas (born 1973) Footballer.
  2. Gianna Angelopoulos-Daskalaki, president of the Organizing Committee for the 2004 Summer Olympic Games.


[edit] Etymology of Crete

I suppose that the word "Cre-te" is derived from word "Grae-ces" or "Graiae".

Perhaps, Graices are Curetes (peoples of Acarnania and Crete) were the same tribe.

Note: the suffices "-tes" and "-ces" or "-cae" were usual in ancient Greece.

--IonnKorr 19:05, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] External links

The external links of this article seem to be an eternal problem, as tourism link are countinuosly k. It may be a good idea to take a decision once and for all about whether we accept these kinds of links or not. In particular, if we decide they are not needed, they all should go, as one link encourages new ones. I know there are a number of people having this article in their watchlist, and I would like their opinions. - Liberatore(T) 12:31, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

I vote to keep these links out. If people want them they can search Google. --Joshuagross 17:41, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Warning" for tourists

Removed from the article by me, posted by an unregistered user:

Warning:
The main airport in Crete is called Heraklion (sometimes spelled as Ieraklion). Just next to this airport, there is a Millitery air base (ΒΑΣΗ ΑΕΡΑ in Greek). For tourists, be aware that please do NOT take photos of the air base, you might be charged seriously because of that. For those who do not understand Greek language, it is particularly dangerous because the airbase has no English signs. I was questioned 2 hours in police station in Heraklion town because they suspected me as a SPY to shot photos of the air base!

I think it's good info (if it's true) but it was placed in the See Also section. Either a vandalism or a clueless editor. So, it should either be ignored or verified. --Joshuagross 22:38, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

It is probably entirely true. A few years ago there was a huge contretemps between Britain and Greece when about ten British plane spotters were imprisoned for practising their hobby in Greece, which is supposed to be a democracy and a NATO ally. Hoylake 17:04, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Stop your foolish hobby, then, and stop taking photos of military bases. It is forbidded throughout Greece. Panos,

[edit] Mention Ottoman na, me?

There is a revert war about whether the Ottoman name should be mentioned. I will not revert again today. I prefer that the issue be resolved on the Talk page. The arguments that have been given so far for not including the Ottoman name include (from the edit comments):

 1. no minority population
 2. no proximity to turkey
 3. no such historic importance
        ? what does this mean
 4. it comes from the greek name
 5. why not include the Latin and Arabic names: it was Roman for 400 years and Arab for 150

All of these points are true but largely irrelevant. The question is: what is the criterion for including a name in a given language? I would think that being Ottoman from the 1669-1897 would be a major argument for including the Ottoman name -- that is both a long time, and recent -- but I have no problem with including the Latin and Arabic names. After all, we do we include the Venetian name. --Macrakis 19:23, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Reasonably, 2 reverts by two different users do not constitute the 'revert war' definition, but anyway...
Apart from the arguments above, i can list some more:
6. The Cretan Turks (who were mentioned in the last revert) were greek-speaking, thus there is no reason to mention the turkish name in the first paragraph, since they called the island simply 'Kriti', as the rest of its inhabitants.
7. (this one may seem nationalistic, but it's not) The greek name has repeatendly been removed from Istanbul, the article about a city that has every single reason to deserve the greek name in the beginning. we will either reach a concensus regarding the placenames in the region, or we will be 'trapped' in revert-wars. personally, i will ,get the challenge in order to prevent POV pushing from both sides of the Aegean. sorry, but since i cannot force to include the name 'Constantinoupolis', i will remove the turkish name from Crete (->seems NPOV, but un-encyclopedic, though...:(...). and since Macrakis is not bothered by the removal of the name 'Constantinoupolis' from Istanbul, i cannot see his point here.
8. the turkish name was not the original one that would might have the right to be mentioned in the beginning of the article.
Concerning Macrakis' 'major argument' i see it as 'weak'... If we adopt this, we shall add the turkish name in every single place-article of the Balkans, Middle East and Northern Africa (for places that remained under ottoman rule longer and till more 'recently'). according to this, we shall add the greek name in e.g. Kabul, since it stayed under greek rule longer than crete stayed under ottoman...
By saying 'no such historic importance' i meant the obvious: comparing the importance of Crete for the Turks with the importance of e.g. Smyrni or Nikomedia for the Greeks... (i guess there is no need for comments and explanations here...) --Hectorian 20:26, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
I might understand the case of Eastern Thrace, Komitini, Xanthi and other places but in the case of Crete I don't see a reasonable argument to label it with an alternative Turkish or Ottoman name. Macrakis' arguments are at the least childish, if for no good reason, beacause they're not followed by equivalent wikipedia articles. I don't see many French or British colonies carrying the names of their conquerors in their respective articles. Wikipedia even uses "Istanbul" over "Constantinople", eventhough the Ottoman name had _always_ been the latter, and no-one has ever got into trouble to correct this anachronistic nonsense. There's a limit to everything. Miskin 19:22, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
It's due to the historic Turkish population that lived on Crete. Also note that the Greek name is at the top of the Istanbul article... —Khoikhoi 19:25, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
Ok I'll give it a chance. Let's see how long the French name will last in Algiers and the Greek name in Istanbul. Miskin 19:44, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
Don't forget about İznik, Edirne, Bursa, İzmir, Trabzon, Kırklareli, Sinop, Mersin, Bergama, Bodrum, Muğla, Kastamonu, Eskişehir, and Konya... —Khoikhoi 19:53, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

By the way the article "Cretan Turks" is a bunch of Turkish POV. There used to be in total 500,000 MULSIMS (which was not equal to 'Turk' until very recently) in the entire of Greece, and I can guarantee you that they were not concentrated in Crete as the article's figures imply. Miskin 19:48, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

There were 73,000 Muslims (26%) in the 1881 (last) Ottoman census (see sources in History of Crete); and perhaps 130,000 (50%) in 1821 (see Britannica 11th ed).
As for "Turk" vs. "Muslim", you have it backwards. The terms "Turk" and "Muslim" were routinely conflated until the early 20th century, just as "Greek" and "Orthodox Christian" have been conflated at many times, so I think that is an innocent mistake. --Macrakis 16:09, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

If the name appears in Crete, surely every Greek place on wikipedia should have the Turkish name? I dont see why the etymology, the arabic and latin terms for crete, cant appear later in the article but why would they appear at the top of the article

Sofixit. ;-) —Khoikhoi 19:53, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
I take that back...please refrain from "fixing" it. —Khoikhoi 20:06, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

If I prove to you that I'm right will you apologise for having said that? Miskin 20:14, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I will. —Khoikhoi 20:15, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Hehe, then get ready. :) Miskin 20:19, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

(moved some stuff to Talk:Cretan Turks) —Khoikhoi 22:00, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] You are fighting about the Turkish name..

... while the Greek governmnet is trying to convert Crete into an Asian colony, a polluted chinese type tansit port. Why don´t you try to improve the article about the plans. You might save Crete

Local people are divided on the issue. Why not bring in for and against arguments based on available research and information. Wiki is currently the only website that goes beyond simple formulaic arguments; dirty and disastrous for tourism, versus economic gain and.... well, economic gain is a big one. There are other considerations that might unite opinion; for example, a cast iron protocol for checking pollution and statutory testing (already partially in effect) of water quality. the area of Messara cannot exist on the vagueries of fruit and vegetables (greenhouse grown) in a changing eco-conscious world. Tourism, important as it is, in this part of Crete will only ever be marginal, based on individual taste rather than the package tour hell that strangles the North Coast.

Messara is poor in opportunities. Allow money to come in but 'ring-fence'(a solid contract)a significant amount for socially beneficial works; housing, projects for immigrants and education for all. No influx of foreign trade without immediate and tangible results in better communities. That would unite many opposing views. –Louis

[edit] Cretan demonym

I added the demonym "Cretan" to the infobox, but it was reverted because demonym "isn't a field." Yet it's a field in other infoboxes. Why not here? I know the term "Cretan" appears elsewhere in the article, but I'm trained to check the infobox for demonyms whenever I wonder, "What are people from that place called?" 68.165.76.80 (talk) 00:18, 5 May 2008 (UTC)