Talk:Creflo Dollar

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Contents

[edit] Let's Get Rid of Dollar's Official Bio

It's practically lifted word-for-word from his ministry's Web site. I think that's unfair to the reader. There are general things that can be agreed upon from his page and others that can elaborated upon, but particularly the end of the first section was absolutely a shill for him and not very objective.


In the opening bio it reads "Dollar received a BS degree in education in 1984 from West Georgia College in Carrollton, GA. His website claims that he has a master’s degree in counseling and a doctorate in counseling, but there is information about when or where those degrees were earned.[1]" This reads rather awkwardly. Should it be "but there is no information..." or "but there is information at ..." and then cite the reference? Greenbomb101 16:30, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Misc. comments

After reading the nonsense printed as so called information concerning Rhema Bible School, Kenneth Hagin, and the Word of Faith Movement, I sincerely expected to see much more criticism on Dr. Dollar's account. It is obvious that Wikipedia cannot be relied upon for factual information but is used purposely as an anti christian tool. However, as a Holy Spirit filled christian I am fully aware that the world could never understand an all powerful God capable of miracles and full of a love for all mankind that he would be impartial in giving such healings and wealth to all His children. I am greatly disappointed that one of God's annointed ministers such as Dr. Dollar has not gained your anti-faith based attention. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.212.11.8 (talk • contribs) 19 Feb 2005

One Love..

Can somebody please leave the annointed men of God alone!God says we as christians should not live like this world,we are different,and Please even if you claim to know dr Dollar don't do what u have already done again. the bible says 'WE SHOULD NOT JUDGE ONE ANOTHER' and next time don't play with fire by trying to embarass the annointed of God because you embarass yourself. Think clearly before you throw stones to someone without looking at yourself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.232.250.51 (talk • contribs) 4 Oct 2005

The anonymous user immediately above at IP 155.232.250.51 also deleted a comment (from a different IP address) from May, 2005 from the talk page entitled "Fools." It can be viewed by looking at the May '05 date in the talk page history. -- Lisasmall 19:06, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
This isn't the place for this or for some of the comments below. If you want to rant, get a blog or find an appropriate newsgroup/forum or make your own website. I'm a Spirit-filled Christian as well and your feelings for the mentioned so-called ministries are at sharp contrast to mine, but Wikipedia is a place to convey knowledge, not to set up soapboxes. Wordbuilder 14:52, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
No, I think this is the place for these types of comments. This page is the "discussion" page. And regardless, look at the other Wikipedia articles and you'll see there are thousands of pages filled up with these types of debates. Creflo Dollar is a poor example of a minister if he drives around in a Rolls Royce. The Bible clearly does not promise material prosperity. What about all the starving Christians in Sudan? Is Creflo Dollar somehow more in touch with God than they are? He should sell one of his Rolls Royces and give the money to the poor. --208.22.45.148 14:08, 27 October 2006 (UTC)SCW
To help alleviate the confusion as to the purposed of an article's discussion page, I added the "talkheader" tag above. The purpose of this page is to discuss improving the article. It is not to express your opinions on the subject matter. --20:35, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] VfD debate link

This article has been kept due to lack of consensus at this VFD debate. Sjakkalle (Check!) 08:30, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

Creflo Dollar has been used by God in a powerful way. Just because people do not understand some of his beliefs does not mean he should be persecuted. Many christians did not support the civil rights movement or the abolition of slavery because of their false doctrine that did not leave room for other 'interpretations' of right and wrong. His congregation of over 20,000 people speaks for itself. Leave Creflo Dollar and the God of Creflo Dollar, Jehovah, alone.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.185.248.249 (talk • contribs) 8 Feb 2006

Regardless of whether Creflo Dollar is right or wrong, you have to be out of your mind to cite the size of his congregation as proof of God's favor. Jim Jones convinced nearly 1000 people to commit suicide, and there are well over 20,000 Jehovah's Witness's out there. Does the size of these groups also speak for itself in terms of being in the right? --208.22.45.148 14:08, 27 October 2006 (UTC)SCW


[edit] Now... Back On Topic... Merge?

Since this discussion was supposed to be about whether or not to merge World Changers Church with Dr. Dollars history, I would add my own comment that that seems fine. It seems reasonable to me to include all related issues, history and accomplishments in his section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.59.244.182 (talk) 10 June 2006

I agree. Wordbuilder 14:52, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
I agree also. -- Lisasmall 18:30, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Need research on birth name

While he claims Creflo Dollar is his birth name there are numerous sources who claim otherwise. Information about this that I previously added to the article has now been deleted. The article needs accurate information about this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.212.64.234 (talk) 21:28, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "Dr." Dollar?

Why does the article consistently use the title "Dr."? I see that Martin Luther King is also repeatedly referred to as "Dr. King", but Einstein and Jonas Salk do not have the title. I suppose that Dr. King was usually called "Dr." in the press and so there's some argument for keeping the title. Is that the same reasoning for Dollar? (Personally, I find it a bit distasteful when someone with an academic doctorate insists on using the title, but maybe it's the norm for some theological degrees?) Phiwum 13:03, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

It's really up to the holder of the degree. Quite common among all walks of christian ministers to use the title, especially if they write books. 75.62.129.140 20:37, 28 February 2007 (UTC)


Distasteful for people with PHD's to refer to themselves as Dr.? I'm not arguing about Dollar here when I say this, but that is absurd. If you have a PHD, you have just as much right to go by DR as a medical doctor does, if you want to. Now, obviously some take it too far but I strongly disagree with your blanket statement. katherinewelles 3:03, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Since my statement was clearly a matter of personal opinion, I don't particularly need to defend it. In any case, among academics, the rule is roughly that using "Dr." as a title is acceptable in an academic setting and not elsewhere. As a matter of fact, in most academic settings, seeing the title "Dr." is fairly rare (outside of, say, dealing with students and the like). You won't find the title in a conference proceedings for instance.
I never said anything about "as much right to go by DR" as a medical doctor, since etiquette doesn't have much to do with rights. Certainly, I have a right to use my title. Heck, in the US, I probably had the right to use the title "Dr." when I was still in high school, since the US does not tend to legislate things like this (as long as I'm not pretending I'm an MD, say). Nonetheless, I find it more than a bit distasteful when an academic PhD insists on using his title, particularly in non-academic circumstances. But it may be the case that in different disciplines (including theology), the tradition is different. Phiwum 13:14, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
Can we get a WP:RS that he has a real doctorate? I see many websites that doubt he does. In Dollar's official biography[1] he says he has a doctorate, but does not give the school nor the year. In contrast, his honorary doctorate's school and year is mentioned.[2] Strange? TYie34 (talk) 01:00, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
In the evangelical subculture it's not unusual for individuals with honorary doctorates from places like "Mumble Bible College" to use the "Dr." prefix much of the time. Those that have actual doctorates also regularly use the "Dr." prefix outside of an academic setting. It's an indicator of status in a milleu that values hierarchy and the signals of status. All this does not make the usage appropriate in secular settings including Wikipedia. Mike Doughney (talk) 01:49, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Removal of controversies section

I see that Jmaster1 has removed the controversies section entirely. This section seems important and relevant to the article, but included no citations at all. I assume this is why Jmaster1 removed it. In any case, it is a good reason to delete it.

Can someone verify some or all of these deleted claims?

A Word of Faith teacher, Dollar is sometimes criticized for advocating a prosperity-oriented teaching held by most Christians to be a misreading of Christian theology [citation needed]. Many of Dollar's church members believe that his Rolls-Royce automobiles, which were given to him by the church, his private jet, and million-dollar Atlanta home and multimillion-dollar Manhattan apartment confirm the validity of his prosperity gospel teachings[citation needed]. + A Word of Faith teacher, Dollar is sometimes criticized for advocating a prosperity-oriented teaching held by most Christians to be a misreading of Christian theology [citation needed]. Many of Dollar's chur
Critics, however, believe his lifestyle is proof of nothing more than the generosity of his parishoners. Dollar has explained that prosperity primarily involves improved relationships with God, family, friends.
Dollar's church has amassed a fortune in real estate, mostly in College Park. Like other Word of Faith preachers, Dollar is often accompanied by bodyguards in public, and has stated, "I'm a part of the God class." [verification needed]
Creflo has also appeared in front of the World Dome in the 2001 rap video Welcome to Atlanta with rappers Ludacris and Jermaine Dupri.
On another occasion, Dollar donated money as a show of appreciation to law enforcement officers in Fulton County, Georgia[citation needed].
Many of his critics claim he was born with the name Michael Smith; however, his actual birth name is Creflo A. Dollar, Jr. after his father, Creflo A. Dollar Senior. A man by the name of Michael Smith held a few high-ranking titles during his 12 years of membership/service at World Changers Church, but they are, in fact, two separate people.

Thanks much. Phiwum 13:19, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

This article mentions the Welcome to Atlanta video appearance:

http://www.ottawamennonite.ca/sermons/dust-off.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by Onorland (talk • contribs) 16:55, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "Swindler" vandalism

I don't like the word "swindler" in the first paragraph. Personal feelings aside, the article should remain objective.

No, of course "swindler" did not belong there. You corrected a vandalism that other editors had missed. Thanks much, but please remember to sign your talk page posts by appending four tildes. Phiwum 03:29, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] *cracks the whip*

Oh, stop arguing and get to work. This article is a mess. I put some templates in and cleaned up the Controversy section a bit. Can someone work on all those [citation needed]s in the first section? Thank you! ComputerSherpa 22:05, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Video request

Can someone post the video clip from one of the TBN broadcasts [a few years ago] where he said "Worship me! I mean worship God!"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.61.86.122 (talk) 05:06, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Doesn't really seem relevant to me. A simple slip of the tongue that signifies nothing much at all. Phiwum 12:45, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Good News

Creflo Dollar owns a jet model "Gulfstream 3"...this could lead to a mis-understanding that he owns 3 jets. He also has stated in interviews that he does not own 2 Rolls Royces, he own's 1 and that 1 was a gift from his congregation. He states that he would never spend that much money on a Rolls Royce for several reasons.

It is said that the Atlanta church brings in about 70-80 million a year. Every year they pay $57,000 to have the church audited by Grant Thorton (the largest firm around) They give the members an opportunity to come into the accounting department to look at the books.

Thirty million goes into television, the church has a staff and sixty ministries. There is something called "The Joseph Project" that is designed to help men that are in and out of jail, in and out of drugs, in and out of marriages, etc. They have outreaches in Ukraine, Uganda, Cameroon and Brazil, providing shelter for the homeless and those in need. There were about a dozen houses being built in Brazil at one time. The church provides groceries for about 180 families per week.

It has been said that he does not use one penny of the churches money to pay for any of his lifestyle. He stopped taking a salary from the church a number of years ago. He owns businesses and invests in real estate, that's how he pays for himself and his family. He has invested 28 million dollars of his own personal money into the church.

He flies to New York every Saturday to preach in Madison Square Garden. It costs approximately $800,000 a year to rent it out and $85,000 to rent storage space nearby. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Royalgem21 (talk • contribs) 03:19, 13 December 2007 (UTC)