Talk:Creek War

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[edit] Project notice

The Creek war in 1813-1814 was a military conflict between Creek Native Americans and military of United States. It is sometimes considered to be part of War of 1812

[edit] Military ranks, arrest, and help

the article shows that Andrew Jackson was a Colonel at the time of the war, and that he caused Major General William Cocke to be arrested. I suppose there is something wrong here. Who can correct the ranks or actions? Thanks Hmains 03:51, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Excellent question. I do know that Jackson did arrest General Cocke, so Jackson's rank at the time is the issue, which extends to two other articles. The article on Andrew Jackson implies that he might have been a Colonel at the time of the Creek War. The article on the War of 1812 states that he was a General. In 1802 or 1803 Jackson achieved the rank of Major General when he ran against John Sevier for overall command of the Tennessee Militia. However, Since he only commanded the West Tennessee Militia at the time of the Creek War the question of his rank is unresolved. Unfortunately, I can't get to the library, but I can recommend Henry Adams, Remini, and perhaps Mahon as good sources to resolve the question. Vern Reisenleiter 21:12, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Footnotes

When I expanded this article I considered using footnotes to provide detailed page references to my sources. However without automatic numbering that would have been very cumbersome to set up and maintain. I finally decided to use footnotes only for direct quotes and to include my other page references as hidden comments at the end of each paragraph. Thus my edit to the Notes section. I didn't delete the new notes. I just hid them for the time being. Vern Reisenleiter 10:41, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Battle of Burnt Corn

I have changed the particulars of this Battle in response to my readings by Ehle as well as this web site: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~cmamcrk4/crkwr2.html I have not read the sources originally sited in the article but I am interested in a discussion on the topic. --Brian 08:16, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

Brian, I read over your mods to the article on Burnt Corn (and this one) and have no problems. As a matter of fact, the additions are welcome. Of the three histories that I used, the one by Henry Adams was the most comprehensive. However, they all pretty much concentrated on the military actions of the US forces and were a little light on the "Civil" part of the Creek War. --Vern Reisenleiter 21:44, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Accounts of this battle differ widely in detail (partly because the outcome was an embarrassment to everyone but the Red Sticks). Good info is available in Thomas Woodward's Reminiscences and George Stiggins' manuscript of Creek Indian history. I will be sure to add it real soon now. -- Alarob 18:15, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Revised article

A rewrite of this article is available for review here. I still have a little bit more work to do on the subsection on the Georgia and Mississippi militia. Plus clean up.

I had originally intended to put in a notes section, but now have second thoughts.

Please use the discussion page there for comments/suggestions.

Vern Reisenleiter 22:47, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

I just replaced the entire article. Page cites to the three references are included as hidden comments.

Vern Reisenleiter 18:12, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Strength Estimates

U.S. Strength of 7,000 is from Mahon, "The War of 1812" (1972) p. 240 and represents the total number of E and W TN, Georgia, and Missippi combatants who had entered Creek territory by the end of 1813.

Red Stick strength of 4,000 is from Leckie, "The Wars of America" (1981) p. 275 The Upper Creek were never able to concentrate more than 1,000 of their warriors.

Will eventually get around to adding References to this article.

Vern Reisenleiter 02:41, 31 July 2005 (UTC)
Keep up the good work! --Kevin Myers 04:54, July 31, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] A question on procedure

I'm new to this, thus the questions.

After the article about the war, there are sections that provide boigraphical information about three individuala; Peter McQueen, Menawa, and Benjamin Harrison. Stubs exist for the first two, and there is a full write up for Harrison. Shouldn't these sections be deleted after transfering non-redundant information to the other pages?

Do I need anyone's concurrence, or can I just go ahead and do it?

I concur that you should just go ahead and do it! --Kevin Myers 02:00, July 29, 2005 (UTC)
Thanks, I appreciate the quick response. --Vern Reisenleiter 16:56, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Merge?

The following is the text that was added at The Creek War before a redirected it. Some of it may need merging into this article. Rmhermen 14:24, Mar 29, 2004 (UTC)

The Creek Indians, who had been allies of the British during the War of 1812, were angered by white encroachment on their hunting grounds in Georgia and Alabama. In 1813, some Creeks under Chief Red Eagle attacked and burned Fort Mims on the lower Alabama River, killing about 500 whites (the Fort Mims Massacre). Afterward, US militiamen, led by General Andrew Jackson invaded Creek territory in central Alabama and destroyed two Indian villages, Talladega and Tallasahatchee. Jackson pursued the Creek, and on March 27 1814, his 3,000-man army attacked and defeated them at Battle of Horseshoe Bend on the Tallapoosa River in eastern Alabama. More than 800 Creek warriors were killed, and the power of the Creek nation was completely broken. At the Treaty of Fort Jackson on August 9, 1814, the Creek were compelled to cede 23 million acres half of Alabama and part of southern Georgia to the whites.

[edit] Images

There are some nice images in the article on the Horseshoe Bend website but I did not copy them as I am not sure of their status and what conditions the National Park Service used them under. Fred Bauder 13:30, 3 Jan 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Indian flags

The use of flags to represent Indian nations in the infobox is anachronistic at best. It's important to bear in mind that these nations did not use flags in the 19th century, except when individual leaders appropriated the flag of a European ally. The actual flags displayed here are historically inaccurate. I can't speak to the history of the Cherokee flag (although it is probably post-Removal) but the Creek flag is supposedly associated with the short-lived Muskogee Republic proclaimed by William Augustus Bowles and allies. It is not by any stretch of imagination the same polity involved in the Creek War (on either side). Is it necessary to have a flag in the infobox? Is there some sort of placeholder we could use instead? Maybe this issue has already been addressed in another military history context. -- Alarob 18:23, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

(Continued below...) -- Rob C. alias Alarob

[edit] 9 October 2006 changes

An anonymous user deleted two of the weakest passages in the article (one of them based on a historical novel by John Ehle). Unfortunately, both had to do with the "Red Sticks," and the result is an even less comprehensive article. It is unfortunate that the deleted passages were not instead edited to bring them up to date with current scholarship. -- Rob C (Alarob) 15:52, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Role of Tecumseh

This article's assertion that this war is sometimes considered to be part of the War of 1812 would make more sense if Tecumseh's role in encouraging the Red Stick faction were mentioned somewhere in this article. --arkuat (talk) 20:29, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Books on the Creek War

This article does not yet reflect the most current reliable sources (and actually makes frequent references to a work of historical fiction, Ehle's Trail of Tears). Even the most notable older works are missing. Suggestions (and Anne E. Gometz's excellent online Creek bibliography has more):

  • Waselkov, Gregory A. A Conquering Spirit: Fort Mims and the Redstick War of 1813-1814. 2006. ISBN 978-0-8173-1491-0
  • Martin, Joel. Sacred Revolt: The Muskogees' Struggle for a New World. 1993. ISBN 978-0807054031
  • Halbert, H.S., and T.H. Ball. The Creek War of 1813 and 1814. 1895. Available online at Humanities Web and rootsweb.

These are books that are specifically about the war. Many other articles and books on the Creeks could be mentioned for their informed treatment of the war. -- Rob C. alias Alarob 00:02, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Flags

No one has responded to concerns about the so-called Creek Nation flag. I am removing it from the infobox again, and would appreciate a discussion of the issue rather than a revert without discussion. Thanks. I'm glad to agree to using it if its genuineness can be established in reliable sources. -- Rob C. alias Alarob 16:45, 29 July 2007 (UTC)