Talk:Creative ZEN

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Creative ZEN article.
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[edit] Notice

This section is not to report technical issues with your Creative ZEN. If you want actual support, go to the official source. There IS a message board. Topics related to these will be deleted. --Jw21/PenaltyKillah(discuss•edits)

[edit] Vandalism

Who vandalised this page? I removed it, it was under the ZEN Xtra section, the problem complained about could be cleaned up to be NPOV and put with the other criticisms Thesidewinder 16:25, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Found the creator, it was written by 71.242.35.44

[edit] Cleanup Required

Right now all of the products are listed in chronological order. It would be more useful and more relevent to have the current products listed first, followed by a category for older products. The page for the Sandisk Sansa features this layout and it is much more user-friendly. 24.220.84.2 18:32, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, that's not necessary. --PenaltyKillah 08:38, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

You know what? I did it. --Jw21 (PenaltyKillah) 21:28, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Plans for Streamlining the Product Section

I propose to add a section that will specify the common attributes of the Creative ZEN varieties, like their ability to play FM Radio, voice recording and line-in. That way, those info would not need to be repeated for each product and the article will be much shorter. --PenaltyKillah 20:36, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image deletion?

Umm: Why was the image of ZEN V Plus deleted? I think that as every other model on the page has their own pics, ZEN V Plus should have too? Ilyushka88 00:18, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

It's copyrighted, and not authorized. (Or you did not add the right license tag.)--Jw21 (PenaltyKillah) 08:42, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
Okay. Will take a picture of my own V Plus later Ilyushka88 13:57, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Regarding Your Claims...

Hello editors, I, being a long-time editor in Wikipedia, would like to discuss why I am allegedly accused of spamming. The article(s) Creative ZEN and ZEN Vision:M had the website EpiZENter for a year, and I am not a member, nor an affilate of EpiZENter. The link had been in the article(s) before I contributed to them, and thus I am only doing my part to preserve the article(s) when the site's link is removed.

If it does concern my removal of fansites, which unlike EpiZENter and other related sites, does not provide any content that may be helpful to a researcher collecting information of the product, or an user of the product. That is why I removed those links, but not sites like EpiZENter. I assert that no acts of hypocrisy has been committed. I may apologize for using the caps to demand other editors to stop advertising their own fansites.

If you can learn to realize this misunderstanding, I'd be glad. For now, the link for EpiZENter will remain removed until disputes are cleared. Once again, I apologize for any inconvenience caused. --Jw21 (PenaltyKillah) 01:36, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, it seems like something that fits pretty well within the scopes of Wikipedia:External links#Links normally to be avoided, specifically 1) and 6). --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 01:46, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
That's all well, but registration in the site is only for access to the forum, which is irrelevant. As the site provides information that may be helpful for any researchers/users that may want to look further into the product, I do not think that this site is the same as the others. As for 1), the site does provide unique resources, including what I assume to be in-depth information for each ZEN product, and this article is not featured yet. --Jw21 (PenaltyKillah) 01:59, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
And looking at the site, it has mostly trivial information. And it doesn't mean that the policy only applies to featured articles; it means if the article isn't a featured article, it's still not an excuse to include links that the article would have if it was a featured article. And the second link added is full of ads. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 05:59, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
Well, if you'd look at User_talk:Jw21, I decided to temporarily give in to some anonymous users who felt that their pages deserved to be in the article, as it is helpful to the user. By the way, if a webpage has information AND ads, does it make it anti-open-source, or anti-GNU? I hope that I am not that fanatical about copyrights and royalties, like our admins in Wikipedia. No worries, I won't bring back the Third-party support thing. I'm glad all this is, well, over... --Jw21 aka PenaltyKillah 20:16, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] ZEN Nano (Plus)

I hope this important info on how the ZEN Nano differs from other ZENs is preserved in the article:

The ZEN Nano is a rebranded MuVo N200 and unlike other ZENs, the music is transferred and stored in the player like on a USB memory stick, without requiring any specific software.

--TuukkaH 18:50, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Adding third party support

Hello,

Due to the amount of troubleshooting issues related to the ZEN, I would like to add a section of third party support. I believe this will be extremely interesting for owners and others who are interested in the product (common problems, operating instructions etc.) 89.138.8.1 08:49, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

And... it's removed! Thanks for experimenting. --Jw21 aka PenaltyKillah 20:12, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
I'm not experimenting. This seems kind of strange you being the one editing it after our long conversation. The site has valuable information for ZEN users, this is without a doubt, why remove it? Please provide more information as to why it shouldn't be there (together with epizenter, which you so vigorously fought for).
And per your question, no, ads don't prevent a site from being included. Every official site includes ads by the brand, wikipedia will need to be completely reedited (and completely unuseful) to stand to this criteria. Not to mention your site inclusions. It's only a problem when it's excessive.
Again, Fixya includes a lot of useful information as well as the possibility to get problems solved online. I would definitely want to find this resource when searching in wikipedia. All the best 84.229.123.38 07:42, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
Well, that is just too bad. Wikipedia's strict rules are tied to a philosophy that is anti-copyright, anti-big-corporations, and especially against the likes of anything third-party, with advertisements or requiring a registration. (I jokingly called your attempt at adding the Fixya link as experimenting, as I earlier told you in User_talk:Jw21 to go and try adding it. I only edited it by placing your link and EpiZENter to a new sub-heading, called "Third party support" (which it is). Now, if you still think that your link is important, discuss it with the community, alright? --Jw21 aka PenaltyKillah 01:44, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
I will do as you suggested. Thank you.Yaniv.bl 08:18, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Embedded software

What sort of embedded software do the players use? Is it stored on the hard drive, or in ROM? My brother's ZEN Vision:M has a bad HD and I was wondering if I can simply replace the 1.8" HD, or would I have to also restore software? 71.75.170.119 21:10, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Go to sites like EpiZENter.net, or the Creative Support Forum for technical support. --Jw21/PenaltyKillah(discuss•edits) 03:45, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] ZEN on Macs

Hi there, I added some info about how you can get ZEN players to work on Macs. I was surprised that this has not yet been discussed in the text. I guess many NOMAD users who run OS X, might skim the article for this info. Therefore, I added this pretty prominently. I'm not a native english speaker, so feel free to change anything.

Regards, Christoph (06/29/07, 1.50am)

Hmm... for third-party software, a separate section is not necessary, as it has nothing to do with the native information of the product.--Jw21/PenaltyKillah(discuss•edits) 19:33, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
Well, I think its a very crucial information for the increasing number of Mac Users out there, how to make ZEN work on their machines. Therefore, i wouldnt just leave the info out.

Chris 0900pm, 06/30/07

Well, you should post your findings in the Creative.com support forum. Check out this page to find out why Wikipedia wouldn't be particularly pleased with your contribution. Btw, I have added back your third-party program.

[edit] Creative Wav availability.

The Creative WAV is now available at online U.S. stores like Wal-Mart. I will move the WAV out of the Domestic player list and on to the list with U.S. player. 8/19/07 10:30 --Zach. (If someone could add Wal-Mart to the references page that would be helpful, I do not know how to add references).

Doesn't matter.--Jw21/PenaltyKillah(discuss•edits) 00:22, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Creative Zen Vision: M discontinued?

dabs.com lists the Creative Zen Vision: M model as discontinued. Is this correct? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.68.89.216 (talk) 19:45, August 25, 2007 (UTC)

Well, the slimmed-down version of the 60GB model just hit the shores of the States, so I'm not that sure. Wait a year, I suppose. --Jw21/PenaltyKillah(discuss•edits) 00:22, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Award Winning?

The first sentence, which sets the tone of this article, reads like advertising copy from Creative rather than an encyclopedia article. The awards won by individual products are well mentioned throughout the rest of the article. The words "award-winning" need to be removed from the first sentence. It will make the article more editorially legitimate.

Duly noted. I suppose a series of commericial electronics is different from artists or actors, with their oh-so-mighty "... is an Academy Award-winning ... is a Grammy-winning ..." --Jw21/PenaltyKillah(discuss•edits) 00:22, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Make page a disambiguation page

With the release of the Creative Zen (nothing after), should this become a page that directs people to the Zen series or new Zen player? It's gonna be confusing otherwise. 22:16, 1 September 2007 (UTC) 71.59.102.86 19:20, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't think so. You see, three ZEN products have their own pages; the title is simply their product name (no company name, eg. "ZEN V", "ZEN Vision W"). So the new ZEN, just plain ZEN, will get a name like "ZEN (player)", "ZEN (portable media player)", "ZEN (flash player)" (to distinguish it to another player named ZEN, which was a hard drive clone of the ZEN Micro), or "ZEN (PMP)".--Jw21/PenaltyKillah(discuss•edits) 00:22, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] new players?

is any info about upcoming successors of the zen vision:m series available? will creative launch a new series at the end of this year? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.55.39.255 (talk) 23:28, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

So far as I know, the new ZEN, just plain ZEN, is the successor to the ZEN Vision:M as it has the same screen size and features. And since it uses flash memory, it could also be considered as the successor of the ZEN V Plus, which shares the same memory type and capacities (up to 16GB).--Jw21/PenaltyKillah(discuss•edits) 00:22, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Alternative Software

There seems to be something wrong with this section. Most ZEN players DO support drag and drop file transfer. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.73.177.165 (talk) 13:23, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, you DO need to install software for drivers in order to enable drag and drop. After all, the ZEN player wouldn't appear with a drive letter, but an MTP-based folder in My Computer, called ZEN (product name) Series.--Jw21/PenaltyKillah(discuss•edits) 20:21, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Article for the new ZEN player

Yes, the one with "no surname", as Jasmine France of CNet put it. I am planning to create an article for it, like the ZEN Vision:M, ZEN V, and ZEN Vision W. If anyone found a DAP/PMP article in the same situation and has a bracket in the title, can you please tell us the link of it? Thanks. Otherwise, we'd have to debate on its title... which one do you like?

  • ZEN (player)
  • ZEN (portable media player)
  • ZEN (device)
  • ZEN (electronic device)
  • ZEN (PMP)
  • ZEN (Creative PMP)
  • ZEN (Creative player)

I prefer not to have the title as Creative ZEN-something, as Creative is supposed to be the company, and ZEN the brand name and in this case, acts as the player name (just like the iPod before the 'classic' was added). It would be appreciated if users wouldn't create the article themselves without discussion; it would cause a lot of trouble for the community. --Jw21/PenaltyKillah(discuss•edits) 05:55, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Decided to create article under ZEN (portable media player). Any response? Discuss here first if you would like a name change. --Jw21/PenaltyKillah(discuss•edits) 04:00, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] This is blatent advertising and should be deleted

This article is nothing but blatent advertising for the creative corp. and should be deleted. It exists only to promote their products and their brandname. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.153.63.219 (talk) 03:40, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

...Let me specify several things first:
  • I am NOT an employee of Creative or its affiliates.
  • Contributors of this article have removed or modified content that has been deemed biased, or against WP:NPOV. We have taken unsourced claims and any unverified compliments. Feel free to browse through the history section.
  • Listing the major awards each player had was supposed to be encyclopedic. After all, it is a notable fact. And notable facts appear in encyclopedias. Please read WP:NOTE before you reply.
  • Articles like SanDisk Sansa, in the past, have had real problems sounding too much like a commercial. [1]
  • If this article should be deleted, then the following articles should be too: iPod, SanDisk Sansa, Zune, iriver, PlayStation (series), Microsoft Windows, and any other articles that cover notable series of electronic devices.
  • Do you know what counts as "encyclopedic content"? Definitely not "This player is now available in luscious green, powder blue, and devilish black that will make you melt!" [2]
If we are all individuals looking out for articles to make sure they don't lean toward bias or indecency, then HOW can there be an agenda? We are NOT members of corporations; corporations themselves have greater ways to spread their influence and/or power than this free-domain portal of information. So please just specify and not make allegations like that. Please reply. (And I do not endorse resorting to blanking user pages just because they oppose your views. I will personally report you to admins if you did that to mine.) --Jw21/PenaltyKillah VANucks|12-9-2 05:10, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] ZEN Vision W discontinued?

Circuit City recently had them on clearance, and Amazon.com no longer directly stocks them(though some Amazon Marketplace partner sellers still stock it). Has Creative given up on hard-drive players completely? Ranma9617 (talk) 03:04, 10 June 2008 (UTC)