Talk:Cradle of Filth/Archive 2

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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Opening Statement - Article Discussions

This page is primarily dedicated to past Article Discussions on the Cradle of Filth page. All of these discussions are inactive, any new posts should be directed to the Cradle of Filth Talk Page. - The Haunted Angel ^{(The Forest Whispers My Name)}

Opening Statment

I have rewriten the opening paragrph to confirm to a more npov view, I can only hope that it will please everyone. It would seem to me that this is a page which is frequently vandlised, as every time I have visted it, it seems to have a completly different article. Avador 15:08, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Sodomizing The Virgin Vamps is an Unauthorized Album. Should it be listed?

It is live, however it has tracks on it that other studio albums do not.

http://rateyourmusic.com/view_album_details/album_id_is_98883

http://www.cradleoffilthuk.co.uk/music.html

Maybe their DVDs should be listed? The BBC Documentry? What about Live Bait For the Dead?

Touring Partners

Is there any reason why the bands on the 2003 Ozzfest not listed in the touring partners section? Technically they are indeed touring partners, right? Archenhaust 21:07, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Someone also forgot one of COF's first US tour partners, Rotting Christ. Thus have been added to section accordingly. - Brian W. 08/29/2006 5:41 PM US EST

Jesus is a Cunt

Should controversies regarding the infamous Cradle of Filth "Jesus is a Cunt" t-shirts be mentioned here? Taco Deposit | Talk-o to Taco 00:50, May 11, 2005 (UTC)

Can't fathom why not, so long as you keep it NPOV and describe the controversy factually and whatnot. ZPG0705 00:13, 2005 May 15 (UTC)

Agreed, it should be mentioned. I was quite suprised to find it missing, it was fairly infamous in the UK.Trench 21:58, September 10, 2005 (UTC)

The controversy surrounding this T-Shirt became public with Cradle of Filth members Dani Filth, Paul Allender, and Martin Foul wore the infamous "Jesus is a Cunt" T-Shirt while touring the Vatican City. It is reported by multiple sources that all three members were arrested for disturbing the peace, and later released that night without any charges.

I infact find it very ballsy to do such a thing, and it inspired me to buy this shirt online from a european company called Xtra Undergound Fashion

I got kicked out of and suspended from school for a while last year for wearing that shirt...god I love rebellion. (Im atheist)

Band Members

According to www.metal-archives.com , Dave Pybus is back in the band and Charles Hedger is not in it anymore, So I put their names in the propper places. Ladysway1985 05:20, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Ok. Thanks much. I was confused for a moment. Much Love, Helena Rayne TearAwayTheFunerealDress 16:20, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Tour dates!

Why add current tour dates? This is completely beside encyclopedic value. There are other websites to provide that sort of things. --Steerpike 21:54, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

I agree. Tour dates seem like irrelevant information to have in an encyclopedia.
Matthew king 02:16, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Yes. I agree with you both. But just on the subject, I heard they were supposed to have a brief US tour in November. Is that true or just a rumor? Well...tata loves. TearAwayTheFunerealDress 14:33, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

For the record, this discussion was apparently removed from the talk page some time ago, probably by some schmuck who saw fit to paste those tourdates back into the article anyway. It's not helping! Tour dates are completely non-encyclopedic. Visit the official website for that sort of info. The link is right at the bottom. --Steerpike 01:32, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Trivia

I was reading an interview where it states that Dani Filth's favourite band is The Misfits. But on here it says different. Would anyone help clear this up? TearAwayTheFunerealDress 16:24, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Yep I saw something like his favorite band was Emperor. I'd like to know where you saw that it was The Misfits. That's interesting though. Robo bo t 569 12:11, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

I have read on many occasions that The Misfits were his favorite band, although I cannot remember the sources (The Haunted Angel 17:11, 16 May 2006 (UTC))

This is what is listed under Dani's Fav Profiles on their official website:

Favourite Music:

(Old) Mercyful Fate, Danzig, The Misfits, Hanzel und Gretel, Dissection, Immortal, (old)Destruction, (old) Emperor, Bad Religion, Philip Glass, Limbo, Iron Maiden, Type O, Wojciech Kilar, Diamanda Galas, Danny Elfman, Jeff Wayne, GGFH, Rammstein, Carpathian Forest, Belisha, Eighties thrash- Darkness, Testament, Violent Force, Exorcist, Slayer etc; classic American hardcore-Circle Jerks, BadBrains, Dagnasty, Uniform Choice, Fear etc; European darkwave, Soundtracks, dark vampyric funeral marches, nocturnal war anthems and heart-rending melodrama.

Take it or leave it.

--Archenhaust 05:03, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

In the trivia section, it says Balls Mahoney (spelling?) wears a Cradle of Filth shirt. He wears an Immolation shirt, not Cradle. Someone may want to fix that. (Unsigned comment by The Bickel, 10th Sept, 2006)

Google image search suggests you're absolutely right. Fixed. You could have done that! Cardinal Wurzel 09:18, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Midian

Just for future reference, it's been said that Midian is based on Clive Barker's novel Cabal, and has nothing to do with the biblical city. (Joe 18:23, 30 January 2006 (UTC))

If you can find or provide a source for this, it can easily be added to the aritcle. Leyasu 19:13, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

The main reason I said this was because in trivia there was a line indicating that Midian

was a biblical city

, which I found had nothing to do with it. The topic regarding Cabal is

even mentioned in the 2nd paragraph of the Biography.

Here's a quote, anyway;

"I also enjoy the dichotomy present on this disc, as well. Midian, as some horror fans will no

doubt remember, is semi-loosely based on Clive Barker's short story "Cabal", which was remade

into the movie "Nightbreed". In this world of Barker's creation, Midian is where the monsters

go. For these outcast protagonists, Midian was both a heaven and a hell. Much the same way this

grandiose effort by England's CoF is a gratifying lesson on the topic of torment and

tribulation" from http://www.chroniclesofchaos.com/Articles.aspx?id=2-1782

(Joe 19:20, 30 January 2006 (UTC))

I think u miss the point of the Trivia. Its usage is to point out that its not only part of the album and its ideal, but its also the name of a religious place. Not that it has anything to do with the album. Leyasu 01:59, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Midian IS based on the city. Dani Filth mentions it numerous times, even in the live concert on Peace Through Superior Firepower. The Haunted Angel 17:13, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Band photo

Fair enough using a band pic instead of one of just Dani, but I don't think that's the current lineup. That was my thinking behind using just a frontman pic - band pics will constantly have to be changed to keep on top of their revolving-door membership, but if we can stay on top of that I guess it's the better option. Was just being lazy! Also, photos need to be properly tagged - it looks as if Wikipedia will remove the current pic within a week. Cardinal Wurzel 09:21, 8th February 2006 (UTC)

Its not the current lineup, but I liked it better... If you dont you can change it back I dont mind. I will fix the wrong tagging thing, sorry. Im off to that now.....

--Andy5190 23:12, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

There I fixed the tagging.... sorry about that...

--Andy5190 23:28, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Good stuff! Hey, I know what to do - just whack a caption underneath the picture that states what year / era it was taken. You could even do a "left to right: Dani, Adrian" etc etc type thing. Cardinal Wurzel 09:30, 9th February 2006 (UTC)

Hows that? eh?

--Andy5190 02:15, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Genius! Cardinal Wurzel 11:06, 10th February 2006 (UTC)

---

Picture changed, as discussed with Andy (see his discussion page). Cardinal Wurzel 9:54, 19th February 2006 (UTC)

Related Artists?

I think that there should be a section on related artists. Many other band pages have this. For a start maybe:

Bathory
Emperor
Dimmu Borgir
Rammstein
Testament
etc....

Anyone want to add one?

--Andy5190 23:50, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Good idea - you do it! Cardinal Wurzel 09:30, 9th February 2006 (UTC)

The problem with these is it opens for a lot of POV. Be carefull what you put on, and provide a source for your list. Leyasu 09:39, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Medusa's noticed you! Find something reflective! But yes, I guess the trick would be to only choose bands that have definite links to Cradle. So any band that Cradle have covered would be ripe for inclusion, any that they're documented as having sited as influences, maybe any they've toured with. Just as long as it's not just an infinite and random list of bands that are a little bit similar. Cardinal Wurzel 11:06, 10th February 2006 (UTC)

Ive cleaned up the list that was an infinite and random list of bands that are a little bit similar. If you want to do a section on bands CoF has toured with, entitle a list as such and include ONLY the bands listed that way. Also seperating lists into 'Touring Partners', 'Influences' and 'Similar Bands' is far more effective, as as such the band list was just a pile of random bands with little to no similaritys to CoF what so ever. Leyasu 19:18, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

It was not a pile of random bands, take some time to recognize other people's work, it was a list of bands that have toured with Cradle. I got the information off of their website, and it is 100% verifiable. I also clearly listed that it was a list of toured bands, and that related bands had the "RA" symbol next to them. I put it your way now, but take some time to look at what other people do before you take aim and fire by saying things like "the list that was an infinite and random list of bands." You jerk. --Andy5190 21:44, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

I saw the list for what it was, a very half assed attempt. Next time you want to do something in good faith, please do it properly and to its full extent, rather than a half assed job. Leyasu 22:56, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Fuck you, you motherfucking whore. People like you make me sick. With your "that sucks, you do everything band." Take your dominatrix bullshit somewhere where someone actually cares, cause obviously you have mistaken me for someone who cares about your definition of "half-assed" things. Cradle of Filth and Dani Filth are my fucking heroes, and I dont do half assed nothing for them. I took my fucking time, and you can go fuck yourself.

Swearing and insulting me will achieve nothing. You were also the one who attacked me for cleaning up your prose. Wikipedia has ways of doing articles, and yew made a good effort, misdirected but a good effort. Insulting me and telling me to fuck off will not achieve you anything, other than seriously making me believe you really did do an half assed job. Leyasu 02:28, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Thats it, I'm done with you... Just leave this discussion topic alone, once you read this, please delete all of this insignificant argument. One final comment: it was your who insulted my work first... and that pissed me off, I didn't fire the first shot. --Andy5190 23:11, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

I did not target you specifically, i targeted your work. You do not delete things from the talk page as its part of an archive. I did not insult you, i did indeed, give my view on your work, for its lack of Wikipedia prose. If i had known you were new, i would of been kinder in my tone. However, i will warn you, that calling people names is a personal attack, which is not allowed on Wikipedia, and can result in temporary and permenant bans from editing.

I wont report you for it this time, but i suggest refraining from doing it further now that you have been warned. Ley Shade 00:16, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Oh.... ya now I feel like an ass. Thanks for the warning.... and kindness.... Sorry I was a jerk --Andy5190 00:44, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

I think the list still needs working on. Fair enough, have the bands toured with, and have the bands covered, but related bands? There are potentially hundreds of related bands, and many of the bands put are nothing like Cradle of Filth! The list is already long enough, I say that part is removed. J Milburn 09:10, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Agreed and done. Ley Shade 09:30, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, that has improved the article. J Milburn 19:14, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Vocal Cords

Does anyone mind if I delete that stupid thing in Trivia about Dani's vocal cords bleeding? Cardinal Wurzel 22.45, 18th March 2006 (UTC)

Done it. Cardinal Wurzel 12:32, 19th March 2006 (UTC)

Roadrunner United on Discography?

Hey guys. I recently added Dave Pybus (Herr Pubis) to the Discography under Roadrunner Utd, as he plays Bass on one of the songs. It occured to me then, should this really be mentioned on the Cradle of Filth page? I know that ⅓ of the band plays on album, but it is not a Cradle album. If the whole band played on the album, that'd be ok, but as it is just two of the guys, I suggest moving it off the page, and instead putting it under the Discography (that probably doesn't exsist) for Dani and Dave. I'm not to bothered either way, its just an idea. The Haunted Angel 22:48, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

That's why it's in the miscellaneous section Cardinal Wurzel 21:11, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

I suppose... but its still not Cradle of Filth. Then again it does contain ⅓ of the band anyway =\ - The Haunted Angel 22:04, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, point taken, it IS a bit tenuous. But I do think it's relevant. It's a hard one to call because it's a fairly unusual album. But it isn't a side project or a different band - Dani and Pybus are basically on there representing Cradle of Filth as part of the Roadrunner stable, so for that reason I vote it stays where it is (although there's no reason it shouldn't go on their personal pages in the way you suggested). I guess it COULD go into Trivia, but then people would probably question why it wasn't with the rest of the albums... Cardinal Wurzel 09:50, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Yeah point taken. It is hard to classify, but as I said, I'm not to bothered either way, it was just an idea. I suppose that is why the section it is under is 'miscellaneous' rather then 'EPs and Live'. The Haunted Angel 12:34, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Exactly - we can chuck whatever we like in there! Cardinal Wurzel 19:41, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Bootleg section

Hallo mates, its been quite sometime since I have been around these parts, and let me say, the article is coming along great! (Much appreciation to Cardinal W) I was just looking it over, and I think that splitting the Misc section into 3 parts would be Reasonable. I think their should be a Demos section, Bootleg section, and a Misc section. Whats everyone think? ~Andy Blak 19:51, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Sounds like a plan! Cardinal Wurzel 20:35, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Aye, Captain! I will get to work on it! ~Andy Blak 00:35, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

I liked the older picture better

I don't know, just my opinion because it was more representative of how the band looks (closer up). -Iopq 06:46, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

I totally agree... BUT that picture was really out of date. It's an almost totally different band now. So whoever changed the pic probably does have the right idea, I think. Hopefully as more promo pics emerge for the new album over the next couple of months we can find something better again. Cardinal Wurzel 21:48, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

I am back. And I am going to make a new, updated pic! Keep your eyes open. Hey Cardinal, whats up, bro? -Andy Blak 23:07, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Bak in Blak! Cardinal Wurzel 20:26, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Please stop

Please stop "fixing" the header capitals, according to WP:MOS, only the first letter in the header should be capitalized unless there is a noun in the header. Michaelas10 08:51, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Album release date

I simply corrected the album release date, as listed on the Cradle Of Filth website. It was pushed back a day and is now set to release on the 17th, rather than the 16th.

Changed back to 16th as per Roadrunner UK site86.139.75.177 19:03, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Nicknames

I might be wrong about this, but it seems to me that, rather than being actual nicknames and pseudonyms, the names like Herr Pubis and Robin Graves are just jokes, printed on one album sleeve only and never used again (the exception being Les Smith who was explicitly called Lecter the whole time he was in the band). Dani is listed as "Harlot Church" (ha ha) on the Thornography sleeve, but presumably we're not now going to list him as Dani "Harlot Church" Filth. Maybe, instead of Dave "Herr Pubis" Pybus and the like, we should just use their real names in the band line-up, and add a bit to Trivia that lists their joke alter-egos. Thoughts? Cardinal Wurzel 18:31, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

I think thats a good idea, and i say go for it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.157.94.84 (talk • contribs)

christian shit

someone take the religious shit off the titles of the sections. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.63.207.14 (talk • contribs)

Done. Again. Cardinal Wurzel 09:50, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Erlandsson

An anon just moved Adrian Erlandsson from current members to former members. Might just have been vandalism, but if it was a good-faith edit, is there a source for info that he's left the band? I couldn't find anything. Google search comes up with nothing, nothing on the official Filth site, or their MySpace page, or Adrian's own site or MySpace. Anyone heard anything? Cardinal Wurzel 23:00, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Blabbermouth posted about it yesterday: [1] [2] -- seems to be legit. 138.227.189.9 14:57, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Proof positive! Cardinal Wurzel 17:18, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Question Regarding Vempire

I was just surfing on Amazon and came to this page:

http://www.amazon.com/Lipslide-Sarah-Cracknell/dp/B000006ZKZ/ref=m_art_pr_1/103-8847686-2095834

This version of Vempire is missing Ebony Dressed for Sunset as the opening track. Is this a rare import or a goof or what? The label is Gut and not Cacophonus. I wanted to include this on the discography page, but this one confused me. (unsigned by Archenhaust)

It's just a weird mistake. Bad, mixed-up listing that conflates the Cradle album with a Sarah Cracknell one. I just looked her up (she used to be in St Etienne - I remember them!) and Gut is her label. Cardinal Wurzel 07:45, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Main page pic

Shall we just use the Cradle logo as the pic in the infobox? It would avoid this problem of having to change the photo every time the line-up changes, and is probably safer in terms of Wikipedia's draconian copyright rules anyway... Cardinal Wurzel 10:36, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

It's usually routine for band pages across Wikipedia to have a pic of the band on the infobox, so I personally would want to leave a band pic there... however, I would not be opposed to having to keep updating the pic, if we left an older pic there, I wouldn't be bothered, as long as we said underneath "Cradle of Filth 2004" Or "Cradle of Filth 'Nymphetamine' line-up" or something along the lines. The Haunted Angel ^{(The Forest Whispers My Name)} 21:10, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

You must have been writing that as I was adding the new pic! Got a logo in the box now, so see what you think. Put it back how it was if you liked it better before. Cardinal Wurzel 21:30, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

I quite like the logo, but again I prefer the band pics. Also, the Dragon logo, despite being a Cradle icon, if we were to have a logo instead of the band pic, wouldn't it make more sense to have the main 'Cradle of Filth' logo/flame writing instead? Sorry if it sounds like I'm bitching at every idea you raise, having a logo is certainly a good idea in comparison to having to keep updating it, but alternatively an older picture from one of their albums could suffice, but as long as we stated that it was an older band line up.... but then we'd have the problem of having the main picture on our page as being out of date =\ What a pickle... The Haunted Angel ^{(The Forest Whispers My Name)} 23:47, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

I feel that an older band pic would suffice, at least until pics of the new line-up are available, as long as the era was stated underneath. I personally love the 'Cradle Of Filth' logo that's on all their albums, merch etc., so couldn't we combine it with a pic, as I've seen it done on many other band's pages? Thesexualityofbereavement 01:48, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

No problem - just a thought. It's back how it was now, with a slightly modified caption. Cardinal Wurzel 10:02, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Great. I think that we should leave it like this until a new album is released, not keep updating it every time someone leaves with a new member that will only appear in live shows, the albums are only really important mile-stones for updating the band lineup. Oh, sorry if it sounded like I was bitching at every idea you bought up =\ The Haunted Angel ^{(The Forest Whispers My Name)} 13:11, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

No, not at all. I agree with you. Just trying to find a way around anons changing the pic at the slightest provocation, as happened the other day. Cardinal Wurzel 14:14, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

I'll leave a message there, see if that will discourage them at all. And if they do change it, we just revert it back =D The Haunted Angel ^{(The Forest Whispers My Name)} 15:03, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Lol - you're too nice =P The Haunted Angel ^{(The Forest Whispers My Name)} 17:53, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Stuart Anstis

Somebody just added this line to Bideford:

Stuart Anstiss [sic], one time lead guitarist with black metal band Cradle of Filth went to School in Bideford, and now runs a guitar shop there.

Is this true? I've tried looking him (and Bastardsun) up but there's nothing about it on the net. Please help! Totnesmartin 17:26, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

A couple of interesting points, why would he be the "one time lead guitarist" if he was in it for 5 years? Also, the only lead guitarists Cradle have had are Paul and Gian (after 1994 at least). Another weird point is why would his surname be "sic"? A surname is a surname, it can't be spelt wrong -_-" ≈ The Haunted Angel ^{//The Forest Whispers My Name//} 17:36, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

"One time lead guitarist" means he was once lead guitarist, not that he only played once for them. The surname is spelt wrongly: see that extra s? Names get spelt wrong all the time. Totnesmartin 17:59, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

But that's just the thing, surely you only add the (sic) part if you are quoting, and the quotation is wrong? If his name only has one "S" at the end, then we remove the S and the (sic), there's no need to spell it wrong if it's not a quote, which it isn't. I will take a look through my Cradle albums (or just check the Wiki articles) to see what albums he is from.. the name doesn't ring a bell, especially as he was apparently lead guitarist for 5 years.

Ignore what I just said, I just realised it was you who added the (sic) because you realised that it was wrong. Sorry! Lol, I thought you were quoting it from the page, and the (sic) was included in the page itself, that's why I was confused! Lol, apologies. ≈ The Haunted Angel ^{//The Forest Whispers My Name//} 23:07, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Apology gracefully accepted. I know nowt about the band, btw (I've heard one song - and even that was a cover), I'm just keeping an eye on articles in my home county's wikiproject. Totnesmartin 16:46, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Okay, this is more or less off topic, but I just want to take the opportunity to make sure: [sic] (written in a quote, with square brackets ) is (in general, not just here) used to indicate that it's not a part of the quote but added afterwards, as opposed to (sic), which would be in the original quote, correct?

It's always [sic], in brackets, and it always means "we know this is gramatically/otherwise wrong, but we have to write it this way because it's a quote." See Sic. = ∫ _t^c 5th Eye 14:09, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Hmm... weird wording perhaps, but I hope my last sentence makes sense. --x-Flare-x^{Talk) 09:39, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Bam Magera and Ville Valo

Does anyone here know if Bam Magera had anything to do with the collaboration of Ville Valo with Cradle fo Filth on Thornongraphy? Bam is friends with both of them so I wonder if he brought the two of them together.

~ Archenhaust

Personally, I doubt it, but there's been no mention of Bam having anything to do with Cradle outside of Viva La Bam, or at least, none that I know of. ≈ The Haunted Angel ^{//The Forest Whispers My Name//} 22:12, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Cradle of Dirt????

"The lead singer from the band Dani Filth is in another band called Cradle Of Dirt. They are a new band and will be releasing an EP soon. The name of the band is similar because they wanted it to be like eachover."

OK, a simple Google search for "cradle of dirt" yielded THREE results, none of which were remotely related to Dani Filth. I'll remove it.

Pure vandalism, the person who put it there has been warned. ≈ The Haunted Angel ^{//The Forest Whispers My Name//} 15:24, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Drink Bleach

What's all this "Drink bleach" business? Dani mentions it in an aside on Live Bait / Heavy, Left handed, and a Google search pulls up a lot of people referring to it but nobody actually explaining it. Sounds like it's something to do with Dani flippantly claiming to drink bleach in order to get his voice like it is - is that right? Anybody confirm it, with a source? Cardinal Wurzel 08:36, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I have no source for it, but I HIGHLY doubt that he would do that, probably a sarcastic comment that he once made. (Sounds like him). Maurauth 11:36, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I realise he didn't really do it - I just want to find out what the story is. Cardinal Wurzel 12:05, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Heh I didn't mean to imply that you did thing that ;p But there's lots of people that would believe it if it's written. Maurauth 12:15, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Feriluce and what it means

Ok so i think alot of people will laugh at me because of this, but this is for those people that have not yet figured out.

I did a google search, dictionary and other searches to figure out what this meant and could find no possible answer when suddenly it hit me

read Dani's line from Damnation and a Day's Hurt and Virtue Rebles truced with Feriluce (in truth few could resist)

Feriluce is simply Lucifer almost backwards. Lucifer means Light *Luci* Bringer *Ferra*. But what he has simply done is reversed it Ferre Luci which would make him not the "Light bringer" but merely the Bringer of Light. That to me kind of changes the name alot. tell me how much you laughed because you already knew what it ment. 216.201.194.106 18:26, 2 May 2007 (UTC)Johnny

Lol, don't be so pessimistic. But nah, I didn't know that. Often when I see a word in Cradle lyrics I don't understand (which is somewhat frequently) I assume that because Dani does alot of research for his songs, it's the background for some story I'm not familiar with - usually ancient Religous stories, or maybe something by Lovecraft. Still, very nice interpretation :D ≈ The Haunted Angel 17:55, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Why thank you very much -er- Haunted angel? It's the only conclusion i have come up with so far that seems to fit. i try to do alot of research when it comes to things like this. 216.201.194.106 18:26, 2 May 2007 (UTC)Johnny

Haha, just call me Haunted if you want, most other people do. By the way, try and sign your posts with four tildes (~~~~) after each post :) ≈ The Haunted Angel 18:08, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

will try to :) 216.201.194.106 18:20, 2 May 2007 (UTC)Johnny

Nymphetamine's Cover Girl

Does anyone recall the name of the girl who appears on the cover of the album Nymphetamine? I absolutely know I read the name before, a long time ago, and I google image searched her name and it was most definately the same girl, but I can't seem to remember the name anymore. I tried google and yahoo, but all it gives me are weird MySpace page links, and peoples blogs about their girlfriends, and album reviews. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.98.146.96 (talk) 23:41, 4 May 2007 (UTC).

The models in the Nymphetamine artwork are all listed in the CD booklet as "Dryads and Sylph", but only by their christian names. We never got any further than that... There's a bit of a discussion archived here:[3] Cardinal Wurzel 09:54, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

{{cite web}} tags

I recently went through the whole article and properly cited each of the references. In future, if anyone has any references to add, please put them in Template:Cite web format, instead of just pasting the URL between the <ref> tags. ~Spe bi 07:36, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Failed GA

GA review (see here for criteria)

It is reasonably well written.

a (prose): b (MoS):
It is factually accurate and verifiable.

a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
It is broad in its coverage.

a (major aspects): b (focused):
It follows the neutral point of view policy.

a (fair representation): b (all significant views):
It is stable.
It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic.

a (tagged and captioned): b lack of images (does not in itself exclude GA): c (non-free images have fair use rationales):
Overall:

a Pass/Fail: [[Image:|15px]]

Her are some things to fix before nominating again. Get rid of the trivia or merge it into the main article; trivia sections = bad. Get rid of the excessive lists at the end (we don't need to know every collaboration, tour partner, etc.). The genre in the infobox is "Disputed". Fix that. I don't really care what you put, but for all someone reading that knows, they could be a ragga group. At the very least, they're some subgenre of rock, so put that. Almost none (if any) of the images have fair use rationales. Add them. There isn't a single citation in the entire history section. ShadowHalo 06:55, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

More advice

I was asked to take a look at this article. Overall, its a pretty good article. Could still use a bit of work before going for GA again. Here's some advice (note: I wrote all this without seeing the comments above):

Given the overall length of the article, the lead should be a little longer.
Get rid of the "Roughly speaking" in the lead or reword the sentence.
Switched refs to WP:CITE format.
The article overall very much lacks sourcing. Of 12 in line citations, 10 are in one sentence (and 11 are in that paragraph). The rest of the article really needs in line citations.
Per WP:MOS, citations come after punctuation.
All of the fair use images on the page need rationale.
The Trivia section, basically, do what the tag says.
Consider combining the following sections: Films, Television appearances, & Books.
I don't think the Related artists section is needed. At the very least, consider making the Bands covered and Collaborations sections into a 2 column table.
You have two References section. This needs to be fixed. All references should use the WP:CITE format.

Hope this helps.↔NMajdan•talk 21:12, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Another fail

Not everything was addressed from last time:

Images still need fair use rationale. Too many album covers cluttering up the page.
No images of the band?
Fix statements like "Global sales were impressive." It really doesn't help just to source the comment, you need to show how they sales were impressive and not just tell us that they were. See Wikipedia:Avoid peacock terms.
Instead of one of the many album images, a picture of one of the shirts mentioned in "The Music for Nations era" would be nice.
Please replace all curly quotes (’) with straight quotes ('). The curlies feck up in my browser.
Tidy up your citations. Use Template:Cite web
You should really try to get an audio clip of one of their songs. You really can't understand what Cradle of Filth is without hearing them. I remember someone telling me to listen to "Haunted Shores" and then latter learning that all of that gibberish screaming was actual lyrics and just barely believing it.

It's close, it just needs a little more work. You can contact me again when you think it's ready.--SeizureDog 06:12, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Advice from Lucifer

I remember clearly stating not to use lyric sites (read Wikipedia:Copyrights and commercial sites (read Wikipedia:Spamming) such as Amazon.com as sources. I'm telling you one more time as I'm going to remove them, but should they be re-inserted I'll have no choice but to report such behaviour to ANI. LuciferMorgan 17:02, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

I think you have me confused with someone else. Cardinal Wurzel 18:39, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Hmm ok.. I cannot find the message I left so I'll assume good faith and presume you're correct. I hope you realise though that linking to lyric sites violate copyright and commercial links also cannot be used for citations. As concerns GA status, good luck bringing it up to the required standard. It does not meet the standard yet, though hopefully your reviewer will help you with some decent feedback when he fails it and you'll actually use it. {{citeweb}} asks for retrieval dates and not even these have been added, and the article is full of weasly terms. If you wish to know what annoys me, it's the fact you've renominated the article and haven't even been bothered to address the concerns already highlighted in past GA reviews. You mentioned on my page about the past two GA reviews, but you haven't even addressed their concerns, and are therefore wasting GAC's time - address people's concerns, and nominate after that. LuciferMorgan 19:01, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Hey, I really resent that. They are not bad faith nominations, and we've dealt with the suggestions both times. Suggestions from the last review were:

Images still need fair use rationale. - Done
Too many album covers cluttering up the page. - Is that just opinion or are we actually contravening a guideline? I don't really agree.
No images of the band? - Nothing suitable in Commons, and nobody has yet come forward with a non-free image. Using recognisable logo instead at the moment.
Fix statements like "Global sales were impressive." It really doesn't help just to source the comment, you need to show how they sales were impressive and not just tell us that they were. See Wikipedia:Avoid peacock terms. Done.
Instead of one of the many album images, a picture of one of the shirts mentioned in "The Music for Nations era" would be nice. - Done
Please replace all curly quotes (’) with straight quotes ('). The curlies feck up in my browser. - Not done, because I don't understand and can't see the difference between the two.
Tidy up your citations. Use Template:Cite web - Done, but not by me. Will add dates retrieved. easy enough as all retrieved on the same day!
You should really try to get an audio clip of one of their songs. You really can't understand what Cradle of Filth is without hearing them. I remember someone telling me to listen to "Haunted Shores" and then latter learning that all of that gibberish screaming was actual lyrics and just barely believing it. - Not exactly done, but we now have an external link to a site with sound samples (although I suspect you'll now tell me it's a site we shouldn't be linking to).

That's what's been going on in the time since SeizureDog did his last review, and that's why I re-nominated today. If you think there's more to do then give me some more suggestions. You could even help! Cardinal Wurzel 19:20, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

SeizureDog's third point was the following - Fix statements like "Global sales were impressive." It really doesn't help just to source the comment, you need to show how they sales were impressive and not just tell us that they were. See Wikipedia:Avoid peacock terms. This is a prime weakness of the article, and this is mainly why the article will fail GA. It also is full of original research, and needs major work. LuciferMorgan 19:26, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Okay, that's all fair enough. But you can see my point: Seizure Dog told us we were close to GA and that there were just a few minor adjustments to make, which we've made (I remember taking out "global sales were impressive" because we didn't have the figures to back it up. What other "peacock terms" are we guilty of? I don't see it). You're now saying that we're nowhere near GA and the page needs major work. Which of you is right? Looking at your record with featured articles and whatnot it looks like you're a trustworthy advisor, but it's completely out of order to accuse me of bad faith. You sound pissed off, as if you've told us this a million times. You haven't. Nobody has. Give us a list of things to work on like Seizure Dog did, and we'll work on it. Haunted and I are trying to make a good page - you're acting like we're dicking around to be deliberately irritating. Cardinal Wurzel 19:49, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Your points are fair enough upon inspection, though I suggest you withdraw your GA nomination. Up to you if you do or not, but I've also sent a rather fuming message to the GAC talk page about "waste of time" nominations, but if this genuinely isn't your fault because you've had some average reviews then fair enough and my apologies. I have taken those two offensives two times though and someone keeps adding them, though I have no idea whom - if you're a patroller of the page look out for this. The reason why I "act" like you're trying to be deliberately irritating is because of all the peacock terms etc., but maybe you're not so familiar with the criterion. If you wish for me to give you a list of problems, I will, but I'll just say when I review articles I focus on any problem I can find - if you still want the list give me a shout. It would be beneficial if you knew someone who owns the Gavin Baddeley book on the band. LuciferMorgan 19:57, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Sure - I'll withdraw the nomination, and if you want to give us a new list, that would be very helpful. No rush - looks like you're busy! I'm going to move this discussion to the talk page of the actual article, if that's ok with you? Cardinal Wurzel 20:04, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

I have no problem in you moving the discussion to the main talk page of Cradle of Filth if you wish, and I'll get that list to you. I'll add to it over time etc., but if you have the Baddeley book that might do you a few favours. And on another note, you're very perceptive - I am very busy, but with off Wiki stuff (webzine work). LuciferMorgan 20:10, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

List

This is a list I'll update of things that need fixing...

The largely self-produced album led to Cradle's U.S debut,[10] despite criticisms of its sound quality.[11]

The sentence is worded weasly. If you wished to comment on concerns regarding the album's sound quality, instead of saying "there were criticisms of its sound quality" you would say "Critic Pedro Azevedo of Chronicles of Chaos webzine criticised the album's sound quality, citing "production faults"". LuciferMorgan 20:24, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

A step back from the orchestral grandeur of Damnation and a Day,

This is a critical analysis, so can be deemed original research. To use this one would have to say something such as; "Deemed by Critic X of Y magazine as a step back from the orchestral grandeur of Damnation and a Day,.." LuciferMorgan 20:32, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Despite the circumstances of its release however, V Empire, as with Principle, was enthusiastically received by Cradle's growing fan base.

How can you actually assess whether an album was well received by a band's fanbase or not? You cannot. Furthermore, is it encyclopaedic? No it's actually crufty and frowned upon. With albums, when you're trying to assess their worth or lack of worth there are important points to consider;

Chart positions.
Gold / platinum certifications.
Awards the album has garnered.
Critical feedback.

With the final point, I don't mean if one critic said the album was good then you can say "the album was good". What you can say is "Critic X of Y magazine said it was good". LuciferMorgan 14:17, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I think I've dealt with all that now. What next? And where's a good source for album sales figures? Oh, and I think you've got the wrong end of the stick a bit re the gavin Baddely book. Lucifer Rising isn't a history of Cradle or anything; it's about satanism and popular culture. They're just mentioned in it in passing. His "Gospel of Filth" is in the works, but it's not out yet. Cardinal Wurzel 18:35, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

About that, the "upcoming book" tag was removed by Maurauth on the Gospel of Filth article, as he claimed the book was out... I take it he's mistaken? ≈ The Haunted Angel 23:10, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Amazon said it was out, but that could have been a mistake. ≈ Maurauth ^(nemesis) 23:23, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Righty, well I havn't really been following that much, and I havn't seen it on sale, so I'll assume it ain't out yet - I'll put the template back up :) ≈ The Haunted Angel 23:27, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it hasn't materialised yet (I work in a bookshop so I've got my eye out). Amazon list it as "4-6 weeks delivery" which is generally their code for "we can't get this". Cardinal Wurzel 15:42, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

It's officially out on October 31st 2007 according to the publisher's official website. Most sites are just copying their date off Amazon, which is incorrect. LuciferMorgan 16:09, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Dani Filth

If anyone has a free image of Dani Filth that clearly depicts him could you upload it for Dani Filth, as the current one is being disputed. I know I posted this on the wrong page before, but I expect a lot of people have this page on their watch list, than just the Dani Filth page, and may be able to help. Thanks. ≈ Maurauth ^(nemesis) 19:05, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Try seeing if someone will donate one at www.flickr.com. LuciferMorgan 19:09, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

I'll try but it's hard to convince people when they realise their picture will be up for grabs by anyone for commercial purposes. ≈ Maurauth ^(nemesis) 19:32, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

I definitely agree with you on that - I personally wouldn't release a picture, but then again let's hope others don't think like me :) LuciferMorgan 20:39, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Not everyone takes pictures in order to make money off of them... Not a dog 21:06, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't actually do pictures at all, so if that's an insinuation it was rather inaccurate. LuciferMorgan 21:11, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

An observation, not an insinuation. Not a dog 22:27, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm a prosumer, if you will, photographer and was still wary of giving up my photos for relatively unknown bands. I sent out a few emails on flickr, but some of those images I doubt are owned by the flickr members. ≈ Maurauth ^(nemesis) 17:03, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Common do have a picture of Dani Filth http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Cradle_of_Filth_2005_-_Daniel_%28Dani_Filth%29_Davey.jpg

and other band pictures: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cradle_of_Filth

Gordal 18:00, 23 September 2007 (UTC)|

Is the cover art strictly needed?

The cover art is lacking in rationale specifically for use on this page, and I am wondering exactly whether it is needed. What grounds do you see for including it? As far as I see, there is no discussion of the cover art itself, and so the usage of it here appears to be entirely decorative. What reason is there for keeping it there? J Milburn 17:48, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Gosh, Milburn. We're awfully sorry. Cardinal Wurzel 18:57, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Great, now we have but one picture in the article save the Dragon one. Well, at least the Vestal one was the best one there anyway. We need more pics now =/ ≈ The Haunted Angel 19:15, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

What happened to the "2006 tour line-up" picture? I thought good old Cardy had permission to use that picture from the photographer (Cindy Frey, I think). Stupid wikipedia copyright junk! Death2 01:33, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Heh, yeah... Even though we had permission from the photographer to use it, it still doesn't count as a "free" image according to Wiki guidelines, because she hasn't given up her rights to it. It's not freely available for use by absolutely anyone, so it doesn't count. We have to follow the rules or Wonderboy Milburn will get us! Cardinal Wurzel 08:45, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

It isn't cover art, it's a logo, and in this context logos are allowed. Emmaneul ^(Talk) 09:41, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Yup, the logo is fine - that's why it's still there. It's the cover art and the photo that had to go. Cardinal Wurzel 10:44, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Oh, I see, I replied to something old... :) Emmaneul ^(Talk) 10:59, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Band Name

I was just reading St. Augustine's Confessions for a class and found the following:

But it becomes an obstacle if he thinks his view of nature belongs to the very form of orthodox doctrine, and dares obstinately to affirm something he does not understand. But such an infirmity in the cradle of filth is sustained by mother charity, until the new man 'grows up into a mature man and is no longer carried about by any wind of doctrine' (Eph. 4: 13).
(V. vi (10))

Just thought this might be helpful to y'all in some way.

-Richard Paez. University of Florida English Department. richardpaez@gmail.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.136.34.159 (talk) 22:41, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, Richard - that's really interesting! Unfortunately, since nobody seems to have noticed before, we can't add it to the article because, by Wikipedia's rules, it constitutes "original research". There must be a way though - I'll try and get it in! Cardinal Wurzel 11:50, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Wow, that's pretty fucking cool! I thought Dani was just sitting around one day and thought "Hmm, Cradle of... Filth! That sounds cool!" Hehe ≈ The Haunted Angel 19:21, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

I heard their band name was originally going to be "Manger of Filth" but they weren't allowed to play shows with that name or something, so they changed it... which may not be true but it makes sense to me. No source. = ∫_t^c 5th Eye 20:35, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Is/Are

I've taken this to the talk page at WP:ENGVAR to see if we can get a consensus. It's about 50/50 so far. Cardinal Wurzel 11:50, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

And the answer is: "is" is technically gramatically correct, but "are" is generally accepted because, while "band" is a singular noun, its inference is plural. See synesis. Y'know, I learned something today... Cardinal Wurzel 19:30, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

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