Talk:Coyote

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Could you put in the evilutionary chain please and a time line with a geo-pattern?

Contents

[edit] Good Article

I'm just leaving this comment to compliment the editors and contributors of this article! I came here looking for info on coyotes for a school assignment, and the information here is very concise and summarized (which I find to be the most useful type of information as opposed to messy, unorganized, random information scattered amongst web pages people probably won't find). Additionally, I love the photos in this article! I can't really think of anything that may be missing in this article... Good job, Wikipedians! --Matt0401 23:26, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree - an excellent article. (I read it because my wife just heard a coyote howling - in Westchester, a little north of NYC.) PaulLev 06:48, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I also agree. My only request is something more about the morphilogical adaptations. Superllama08

[edit] Howling Seasons

There definitely needs to be more info on the "howling seasons" -- right now it really contributes nothing to the article. TastemyHouse 04:30, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

== Weigh=s

how much does a coyote weigh?

Bizarre--the article lists the weight of the grey wolf as a point of comparison but never mentions the coyotes' weight. It's 20 - 50 pds, averaging thirty. I think I'll just add a section on anatomy as I just did the same for the red wolf Marskell 17:35, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Note format?

What reference format should I be using for this article? I went ahead and added a section and a reference list at the bottom with superscript notes...I didn't know if there was a protocol for this or not.

--IRelayer 20:34, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Interbreeding with gray wolves?

It says here that coyotes can breed with gray wolves and produce fertile offspring. Why then are they considered seprate species? I thought the term species referred to critters that couldn't produce fertile offspring--horses and jackasses can spawn mules, which are sterile, ergo the two are different species. This is apparently in contrast with the situation between coyotes and gray wolves. Seems to this layman that coyotes would constitute a "race" of wolves, not a separate species. Please ellucidate--thanks.

That's a simplistic definition of species. It's far more complicated then that. If two animal populations, such as Coyote and Grey Wolf, have significant morphological differences and do not regularly interbreed in the wild they will be considered separate species despite the fact that they can interbreed and produce fertile offspring. One concept at work is that there is very little interchange of genetic information between those populations. It may be helpfull to review the Red Wolf page: "The upshot of the taxonomic debate is not simply a matter of accurate classification: although the actual patterns of evolution are complex and subtle, human classification schemes usually rely on relatively simple, hard-edged divisions, such as the concept of species, which is ill-adapted to describing the wolves of North America."
Also see the species article: "Without reproductive isolation, population differences cannot develop, and given reproductive isolation, gene flow between the populations cannot merge the differences. This is not to say that cross breeding does not take place at all, simply that it has become negligible. Generally, the hybrid individuals are less capable of successful breeding than pure-bred individuals of either species."Toiyabe 17:20, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
I live in Prince Edward Island Canada, and supposedly we have the biggest coyotes in the world. They interbred with wolves (gray wolves i think) as they moved from the west to here, and not only are they larger but they also hunt in packs. I saw this on a documentary by David Susuki or on a special put on by National Geographic. 142.176.114.182 03:49, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Well..

coyotes habitat goes as far as Costa Rica. that would include Central America as well as north america article is edited for update

Well ... Central America is in North America, so if it ranges In North America as far south as Costa Rica that's probly the best way to phrase it. WilyD 18:03, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

While Mexico is in North America, the countries to the south are in Central America, NOT North America. Since when does Central = North?? --Paddling bear 14:26, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

In geological terms, the entirety of Central America (except for about the southern half of Panama) is part of the continent of North America. "Central America" is just a conveneint term that refers to its political geography, not its geological geography.
It was about 70 million years ago when what's now Panama formed the connection between North and South America, separating the Pacific and Atlantic oceans from each other. Hence almost all of what is now called "Central America" is actually part of the North American continent.
Really? Well there are two terms in spanish that are "Centroamerica" and "America Central" the second is geographical while the first is political like you said, the thing is that I don´t know what are the mathcing terms in English.

75.70.123.215 (talk) 06:09, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] coyotes as pets?

I'd love to see info on the domestication of coyotes - even if it's to say it's impossible.

Also - should the movie "Coyote Ugly" be listed under the Fictional References?

youcantryreachingme 04:38, 23 March 2006 (UTC)youcantryreachingme

I don't think I would list that movie under Fictional References because there isn't a coyote in the movie. And I'm sure coyotes can be kept as pets. Coyote / dog crossbreeds are very trainable as well. --Ignignot 14:24, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
A slight clarification - there has been no domestication of the coyote, except insofar as some domestic dogs have some coyote ancestry. It's plauasible that coyotes have been occasionally kept as pets, but that is something different. A pet coyote is a tame coyote not a domestic coyote. It seems likely that the coyote could be domesticated through generations of selective breeding, although it would probably be more difficult then domesticating wolves was because coyotes don't have as much of a hierarchical social structure. And it would be probably pointless to domesticate because there isn't a role for them to fill that domestic dogs don't already fill or couldn't be bred to fill more easily. Toiyabe 15:56, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps someone simply thinks they are cute critters and spends generations breeding them for that sole purpose.

It can be argued that the role that they can play, that domestic dogs cannot perform as well, is for drug/contraband sniffing. (Perhaps even land-mine, and cancer detection too.) Wild canids are generally accepted to have a superior sense of smell, and this matters in cold temperatures. In Russia, for example, there is a program to interbreed dogs with African jackals to improve detection abilities. Tsarevna 21:27, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Here's pet coyote: http://dailycoyote.blogspot.com/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.122.15.16 (talk) 21:21, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Life span?

The article says coyotes live an average of 6 years, but where is that information coming from? It seems a bit short to me, although I guess if you're including dead pups it would be low. I did a quick google search and other sites are saying 10-14 is a common life span, which makes for a pretty significant difference. Originalbigj 02:04, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Coyotes help humans?

In California coyotes regularly eat housepets and occasionally attack very young children (2-3 years old). Durova 07:29, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

This happens in Colorado, too. But the point is that they provide a balance against vermin that would otherwise have to be poisoned or trapped and otherwise destroyed. http://tchester.org/sgm/lists/coyote_attacks.html says "Since 3 million children are bitten by dogs every year, your small child is millions of times more likely to get hurt by the family pet than by a coyote." It also says the last human to be killed by a coyote in California was in 1980. --Mdwyer 20:11, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
When you see stories about children being attacked by coyotes, wonder where their watchers were, and whether a car would have got them if the coyote hadn't. Image:Tycon.jpgCoyoty 01:35, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
The above really does not warrant a reasonable response since it not a reasonable statement.Bugguyak 20:50, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Coyote in popular culture?

There is a section on popular culture both here and in Coyote (mythology), and both are attracting edits. Would it make sense to create a separate Coyote in popular culture article (like many of the other articles in Category:Animals in popular culture), and use {{main}} to link to it from both Coyote articles? — Catherine\talk 05:46, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A Possible Mistake in Wording?

Right in the openning paragraph you can read, "Coyotes are native to North America and are only found in North America south to Costa Rica."

I don't understand. This tells me that coyotes are only found in Panama, which I know is wrong, but that's the only place/country in North America that is south of Costa Rica. — Dorvaq 15:20, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Native means that is where they came from. They are now found anywhere from North America to Costa Rica. ~~Tayler —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.71.218.178 (talk) 02:42, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

So I see it's been fixed, but, Toiyabe, by "Canada south" do you mean "south Canada" or "southern Canada", and if so I believe the reference is still wrong.
Coyotes are found in northern Canada as well. In fact, according to the University of Michigan Museum of Zoology and DesertUSA, coyotes' geographic range spreads as far north as Alaska.
Also, according again to the aforementioned sources they are found as far south as Panama — not Costa Rica. — Dorvaq (talk) 14:07, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
I changed it myself. — Dorvaq (talk) 20:40, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sources Needed:

  • Coyotes are often captured and raised when young and forced to guard farmers' livestock. In the 1800s, at least 29,485 coyotes were captured, and the governors later offered $591,596 to those who brought the farmers to court. Drakcap 14:14, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Cite? I especially question "are often" and "forced to guard farmers' livestock." It looks like this must have a source because it is so specific but I can't find one. In any case, this happening in the Nineteenth Century might justify "were often," not "are often." I don't think it happens at all now and I question that it was ever common. I have trained dogs to guard livestock. I think that the process would be tougher with coyotes but "forced to guard farmers' livestock" is plain wierd. And why anyone would do this with dogs available, easier to train and often bigger and faster, I don't understand. Will in New Haven

[edit] Re

Ciao, esiste un areale di distribuzione del Coyote? Su commons non l'ho trovato...:)) 87.17.129.16 16:45, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

just a note to those who care - I've added some facts with appropriate references...I have ready access to lots of coyote research papers, since my master's thesis is based on coyote reproductive behavior. However, I don't know how to link the footnotes to the bottom of the page, and if anyone feels like helping out the site, it would be great if they could do that. Also let me know how, via this page, so I can be more efficient in the future. CeciliaHennessy 21:35, 5 March 2007 (UTC)CeciliaHennessy

[edit] Sources Needed:

Re: The Chicago Quizno's incident, and of the wholly subjective assertion that Chicago-style pizza is an abomination.

[edit] Recent Sightings in Los Angeles

I removed this section from the article, but am saving it here. It's too specific for the scope of this article - would we create a headline level section for coyote sightings in every city in their range? No. Especially since coyotes are quite commonly seen by people in most places they live. I could easily add twenty such sightings just from my own experience. Unless the sightings illustrate something significant about the coyote, this risks becoming a redundant list of trivia without value to the typical average reader. And they're not sourced. --Justin 05:16, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

As of December 2006,many people have reported seeing coyotes in various parks.An example is Pan Pacific.There have also been a few sightings in neighborhoods.
On April 17 a woman and her child had been driving by June Street near a bus stop when they had noticed a small dog walking across a lawn.Closer driving revealed it to be a small coyote.When they got out of the car,the coyote went in the opposite direction.They eventually lost the coyote when it crawled under somebody's gate.Another family had seen it also.
  • They're kinda dumb. I mean, I've visited LA pretty often over the last 40 years, and it's a 50-50 chance I'll see a coyote on a visit; big deal. Now, if one were to jump into a soda cooler on Rodeo Drive, it might be interesting... --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 05:38, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Coyote Range Map/ Coyotes in Newfoundland

The Coyote range map is in DESPERATE need of updating. Coyotes are also now on the eastern Island of Newfoundland.

The coyotes of Newfoundland are wolf-coyote hybrids and display different behaviour patterns then their mainland counter-parts. They hunt in packs, sometimes for sport, and also grow much larger then a mainland coyote.

142.162.137.147 19:01, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Yah, the range map doesn't even show them on the Eastern coast of the United States and they are definitely here (frequent discussions about them in the suburban areas of Boston, for instance). Cchiappa 17:28, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Just to clarify, a species doesn't have to interbreed to alter a behavior. While people often cite hybridization with grey wolves, the books I have suggest it was less often than people think. My mammalogy professor thought it uncommon as well. Coyotes could choose to pack up more when larger prey are abundant without 'inheriting' pack behavior from wolves. About maps, it might be hard to get an absolute accurate one, coyotes are in all 67 counties of FL now, but it was just recently noted as such, so no map will show it. Range is likely still expanding.--Paddling bear 14:35, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] No mention of livestock predation and coyote persecution

Livestock predation and the history of trapping coyotes to protect livestock seems an obvious omission in this article, especially since it gives the article a substantial biased point of view. --Bugguyak 21:59, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

The current revision seems to be a great start to addressing the above mentioned ommisions. Thank you anonymous editor. Bugguyak 20:51, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

No problem. I find it odd that it wasn't added earlier. Good job with the picture by the way.87.102.17.53 23:11, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cleaning up of the range of the coyote

I think the description of the expansion of the coyote's range needs rewording. Saying sightings are now common in California, New England and eastern Canada is like saying sightings of mice are now common in those areas. Well, sort of. There have been "sightings" of coyotes all over the desert southwest, up and down the Sierras, Cascades, etc for as long as former Europeans have lived in these areas. I would like to see documentation of whether they coyote's range really has expanded and maybe a discussion of the urban expansion of the coyote's range as well. I live in Portland, Oregon and I have seen coyotes on suburban streets at night. I followed one in my car for several minutes - it seemed unconcerned by my "tailing". But for all I know, the coyotes have always been here in what I now call the city. Jawshoeaw 06:54, 7 May 2007 (UTC)jawshoeaw

[edit] Range Map

I live in New England, and see coyotes often, yet the range map does not include the New England States.

Likewise with the piedmont (middle) region of North Carolina. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.167.158.241 (talk) 14:17, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

According to the University of Florida (http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/UW127) and observations from reliable acquaintances here in northwest Florida, the coyote's range also extends deep into Florida. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.191.179.8 (talk) 13:41, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Difference between coyote and golden jackal?

Aside from size, what differentiates the coyote from Eurasia's golden jackal?83.187.226.129 08:59, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Location and taxonomy. I have worked with both and the behavior, diet, and even physical appearance are very similar. Bugguyak 12:58, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree, it is quite difficult to differentiate the two, even when put together (with the obvious exception of size). But I wonder if there are subtler differences, like skull morphology, dental formula etc. 87.102.44.225 20:59, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

The coyote dental formula is 3/3 1/1 4/4 2/2 (occasionally 3/3, 3/2, or 2/3 x 2) see: [1] while that of the golden jackal is 3/3 1/1 4/4 2/3 see: [2] -- Bugguyak 01:16, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] chupacabra

Reverted to remove very brief, poorly written reference to a creature hyped to be a chupacabra but proven to be a coyote by DNA analysis. While this may merit a mention in Chupacabra, it seems irrelevant to this article.--H-ko (Talk) 00:43, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bias in 'Attacks on humans' section

In the past 6 months, this section has been altered to remove direct references to the Timm and Baker study, "Coyote Attacks: An Increasing Suburban Problem" (March 3, 2004). There is no longer a mention of that in the discussion, although the study itself is still listed below. Interestingly, the following completely inane, poorly written, and obviously biased lines were added and referenced to a co-existence advocacy group: "If followed by a coyote, making loud noises and making oneself look bigger is said to work. Throwing rocks should be a last resort measure."

With increased suburban daylight sightings and attacks all over the Eastern U.S. in 2007, including rampant pet attacks in suburbs in Ohio, and attacks on children and pets in New Jersey, this subject is at best controversial and yet the neutrality and credibility of this section seems to have been thoroughly compromised by omission, hearsay, and subjective ideological opinion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gonzeaux (talk • contribs) 09:12, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Well dang, why don't you fix it? RedSpruce (talk) 18:02, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
Removed the how-to scare off a coyote section, which I'm sure made other people laugh too. Throwing rocks a last resort? LOL Bugguyak (talk) 12:39, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

I think a part on how to confront coyotes in an encounter would not be uncalled for, as long as it is well written. I mean, the grizzly and some shark articles already show such info.Dark hyena (talk) 14:30, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Technically, WP has a rule against including "how-to" information; see Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not#Wikipedia is not a manual, guidebook, or textbook. Personally, I think that rigid adherence to this rule is silly and detrimental to WP, but there are other editors who are sticklers for the letter of the law. RedSpruce (talk) 14:45, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Coyotes and Large Dogs

I found the claim that coyotes have an advantage over larger dogs to be pretty silly and to make little sense. The source used to support this is trying to sell a product to "keep coyotes away". I do not believe this to be a very reliable source because of that. Most large dogs will drive coyotes away, and a coyote is no match for most larger dogs, especially since herding breeds like collies and border collies are bred to protect stock from coyotes. Coyotes are very lightly built compaired to dogs of this size, and many larger dogs kill coyotes in confrontations. My collie and border collie have chased coyotes away, and the coyotes run for their lives. Most coyotes will not even fight a dog because of the risk of serious injury, which is a death sentence to a predator.

I do know however coyotes will target and occasionally kill smaller breed dogs though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.212.199.144 (talk) 21:47, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

The Rottweiller in the article that was supposedly "killed" by the coyote in fact died of a heart attack, not neccesarily from the coyote fight. I hunt coyotes, and they have much smaller canine teeth than larger dogs. This is a pretty ridiculous assertion here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.211.158.236 (talk) 23:42, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Large and medium-sized dogs lost to coyote attacks, or badly damaged by coyote attacks in the San Diego area in 2003 were usually asleep in the yard. During the coyote hysteria of that year, my niece's dog Sashi (who just died of liver cancer) easily killed a coyote, one of three that came in the yard. The others ran away. Sashi was a ninety-pound Malemute/Lab cross and very aggressive. 65.79.173.135 (talk) 16:39, 11 June 2008 (UTC)Will in New Haven

We're talking proportionately here. Here are a few scans from Dogs: A Startling New Understanding of Canine Origin, Behavior & Evolution. Wild canids have proportionately bigger heads and teeth than domestic dogs. http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a276/GGordo/dogs/PhysicalDifferences002.jpg http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a276/GGordo/dogs/PhysicalDifferences004.jpgDark hyena (talk) 11:45, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps proportionately they have larger canine teeth, but my 55 pound border collie has bigger canines than your average 25 - 30 pound coyote, and has driven off scores of the little devils. I do not think the source you used is a reliable one, as it is an advertisement for a "pet protection" system. Most coyotes are driven off by your average farm dog, and usually coyotes are killed or seriously injured in confrontations with sheep and other farm dogs. I am a very experienced rancher and the statement that a coyote has an advantage over a large dog in a confrontation is pure grade A bullflop. Coyotes are far smaller and have no where near the muscle or jaw strength. I have never heard of a single coyote seriously injuring a large dog. Every encounter I have ever heard ended poorly for the coyote. This section should be re - edited again. If that ad was true, coyotes would be attacking and eating people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.212.178.109 (talk) 04:41, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

The sources I provided never claim that the coyotes killed the dogs, it only states that some coyotes have in fact attacked them, whether the dogs were larger or not.Dark hyena (talk) 12:46, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Okay that makes sense. However to say large dogs that were bred for herding livestock, not to mention dogs like rotties, ridgebacks, pit bulls and others are at a disadvantage in a confrontation with a coyote defies common sense and what I have experienced. A coyote might have an advantage over a SIMILIAR sized dog since coyotes are wild animals. But I have heard of coyotes being killed even by border collies, with little injury to the dog. I also have contended that the source that says coyotes have an advantage over larger dogs is questionable because it is a sales pitch.

I agree, but in both provided cases, the large dogs were pampered family pets, not working specimens which have honed their abilities. The coyotes definately held a psychological advantage, as the poor dogs probably had no experience whatsoever in hostile encounters.129.12.200.49 (talk) 14:14, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Most larger dogs were bred for protection. Coyotes don't have an advantage over something bred to protect humans or livestock. Your not going to see a 30 pound coyote beating a 120 pound rottweiler, or even a 60 pound collie, in a fight. It just doesn't happen. The source you used is plain and simply a sales pitch. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.212.196.119 (talk) 22:42, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

I didn't think salespitch websites were valid sources here on wiki. This section seriously needs edited. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.33.146.180 (talk) 06:30, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Read the part about attacks on humans. It says due to the relatively small size of a coyote, serious injuries are uncommon. Domestic dogs often cause serious injuries and even death to humans when they attack. A coyote has no where near the strength or power as most larger domestic dogs. It's just common sense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.33.147.96 (talk) 05:25, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

I am pleased that the drivel about coyotes having an "advantage" over a large dog was removed. It was based on nonsense and a sales pitch. Good compromise. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.33.150.43 (talk) 05:41, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Coyote hunting

Does anyone else here think it might be in order to have a section on coyote hunting? I dont live in America, but from all the pictures and articles I've seen, the hunting of coyotes seems to be a popular sport. Heck, an amazon search showed up to five books on how to hunt them. Dark hyena (talk) 20:14, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it is a very popular sport in the western United States where I reside. I would support and contribute to this. Bugguyak (talk) 02:20, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm glad you approve. Now... where do we start? I've never hunted anything before, so I'm hesitant to add what could be myth or falsehoodDark hyena (talk) 20:06, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

I dunno. I don't hunt them for sport either. While I have worked to control coyotes in wildlife management situations, sport hunting is a whole different breed. Bugguyak (talk) 22:22, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Which picture is better for the infobox?

Both are very good full body shots. However, I am undecided. On one hand, the rest of the article's pictures seem to be completely focused on dense-furred Northern coyotes, while the infobox picture is a one of a short furred Southern coyote, thus doing justice to the species regional diversity.

On the other hand, the other picture has much more contrast between animal and background, thus making it's physical conformation easier to make out.Dark hyena (talk) 10:10, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree the background contrast is better in the new photo, but it appears out of focus when compared to the info box photo while the infobox is a better representational picture overall, has a little bit of interest (the animal is not just standing there), the lighting is better, and the feet are visible, whereas the feet are obscured by the grass in the other one. Bugguyak (talk) 13:40, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cleaning up External Links section

I have been cleaning up the external links section per WP:EL to remove links to web sites with commercial content that may be considered WP:SPAM or just to remove repetitive information. The link in question seems to be an interview with a ecologist about the eastern coyote where he also promotes his book. The eastern coyote is already represented by this dot.edu web site: http://www2.bc.edu/~wayjo/mainpage.html I also added a NoMoreLinks template to see if we can stop this silliness. Bugguyak (talk) 12:53, 17 May 2008 (UTC)