Talk:Cowboy Bebop/Archive 1

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Contents

Possibly something wrong/weird with Ed's name

99.99% of sources (including Wikipedia) say Ed's full name is Edward Wong Hau Pepelu Tivrusky IV. But if you carefully inspect opening sequence (and I really mean carefully - frame by frame), you might find different name: Edward Wang Hwe Pepel Cybulski 4th

Screens:

Can anyone confirm this with his copy of Cowboy Bebop? Is this some early name of Ed that changed later?

Stupid Question -at waht episode does Ed join the Bebop crew?

Session #9 Jamming With Edward ;-) --Shinji-kun 23:34, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

The "weird" version of her name is definitely present during the opening, but it's not her "official" name. In both the Japanese and English dubs, it sounds like "Edward Wong Hau Pepelu Tivrusky IV," and the Region 1 DVDs also list it as such (subtitles, and her character profile on the back of the DVD case for... volume 3, I think).

Rather interesting... This is most likely the original spelling that the Japanese mustered up, but then you have to take into account that along with that spelling being kana-fied for the Japanese version, the English version of the name was also taken 'immediately' from the kana version. Also, since each individual name comes from a different language (such as Wang/Wong and Hwe/Hau, the Chinese/Korean/Japanese renditions, Pepel/Pepelu (maybe Polish/Danish?), and Cybilski/Tivruski(y), possibly from Russian and translitted by sound) the translit from each to Japanese differs, sometimes greatly (in the cases of Chinese and Russian, specifically) and this causes wierd things to happen. After Westernization, the names are construed greatly from their original spelling. And since th show itself (sans the opening credits, obviously) features no specific spelling examples of the name, it's probably gonna stay as such. Besides, it's a bit easier to say, no? Daisenji 14:02, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Major edits to article - [1]

Manga Section

This article needs a manga section. --64.213.196.4 16:54, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Does it? Both Manga series' are fairly canon to the anime. Shooting Star was an alternate version of Cowboy Bebop, and the regular 'Cowboy Bebop' manga was a series of additional 'episodes'. Neither have much relevance to the main anime. They could probably do with their own pages, though. 87th 19:50, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

First comments

Is it really useful to link all the episode titles like that?

I could have sworn one of Ed's many names was "Francoise".

Answer to question above: Ed's father calls hims Francoise, though Ed never says it is his name.-Mr.Kincaid

Um.. Isn't Ed a girl? (-Kid. 15:29, 13 March 2007 (UTC))

For those who are watching this page, I am currently working on revamping this entire article here. Please check it out and leave feedback on this page. If I don't hear otherwise after, let's say a week or so, I will go ahead and replace the current version with the new one. RadicalBender 03:37, 10 Jan 2004 (UTC)

It looks good! Much better background information than what's currently here. I say go ahead and replace it. -- Wapcaplet 02:50, 13 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Appreciate your help. New version is now live. RadicalBender 01:50, 14 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Applederry (Appledelhi), Ed's father, calls Ed Francoise.Cuneiform 12:24, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Ed is a girl, not a boy. this is clearly stated at the end of "Jamming With Edward", when Faye says, "Hey! You're a girl!" and in the Cowboy Bebop Movie, when she tells the pedophile, "Ed's not a little boy, Ed's a little girl!"Cuneiform 12:24, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Oh my but where are the songs? (this specifically was done to list the Opening and Ending themes)

Specifically:

Theme Songs

  • Opening
  • Ending
    1. "The Real Folk Blues" by Mai Yamane (eps. 1-12,14-25)
    2. "Space Lion" by The Seatbelts (ep. 13)
    3. "Blue" by Mai Yamane (ep. 26)

-- EmperorBMA|話す 03:37, 13 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I don't think that information is terribly useful for an encyclopedia article. People who've seen the show already know it and people who haven't won't care. Hence, I removed it when I rewrote it. RADICALBENDER★ 14:18, 13 Apr 2004 (UTC)
I reckoned it might have been useful to provide it since it is encyclopedic information about the show. It might fit better on a separate page like Cowboy Bebop Media Information, kind of similar to Love Hina (on the separate page Love Hina Media Information) as opposed to Inuyasha, which merely lists info in the article itself. As a matter of fact, a media info page would also be a good place to put the episode list, too. That's just my opinion tho... :P -- EmperorBMA|話す 19:20, 13 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I think it is useful to mention that Yoko Kanno was the composer of the music of Cowboy Bebop. Her music is used on Escaflowne and in other places. Fans of her music would want to know where to find more and compare music styles.Cuneiform 12:27, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Soundtrack

I have added the "Soundtrack" sub-topic. There's a lot of room to improvement there, but it's such an important part of CB that it couldn't be left out.

Cleaned up the Soundtracks section a little bit and merged it with the section on the opening/closing themes. Each OST has it's own page so it made sense to cut the redundant info, and condense some of the stuff repeated on this page. Hewinsj 01:34, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought "Doctor" and "Whitney Hagas Matsumoto" are two people and "Doctor" named Faye as Valentine. Isn't Whitney a lawyer or something like that? -- Marsian 15:56, 2004 Sep 16 (UTC)

Whitney is a conartist who was pretending to be a lawyer. Whitney with the help of the uncle, the doctor, were scamming Faye. Whitney's job in the scam was to get close to Faye. Once he swept her off her feet Whitney faked his death, and put Faye and the inheriter in his will, saddling her with all of his debts. Chikiko 04:09, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Jet's Age

I was under the impression that Jet was in his mid 40's. I don't rember his age ever being mentioned in the series, so how was it determined that he's 36?

Cowboy Bebop Anime Guide 1 (ISBN:1931514844) says his age is 36. RADICALBENDER★ 00:00, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC)

It is understandable that there isn't detailed information in this article about the firearms, ships, etc. of the series, but I find it interesting that Spike uses an Israeli-made pistol considering the rumors of his being Jewish (which I had not heard until now). More information about these more technical details can be found here, among other places.

Jet's age actually is revieled in one episode in the series, i dont remember how either by a person, himself or computer but it does say what his age is and i was surprised to find out he wasnt in his forties as well. Once i can get to where i have access to them ill find it (good excuse to watch the show again) and post which episode. -taurens are cool!

if i remember correctly, Jet himself informs the audience of his age in one of the Next Episode preivews at the end of one of the episodes(can't remember which one). i remember him commenting on the fact that just because he was bald didn't make him necessarily old, and was indignant about everyone thinking he was in his forties.-stickmangrit


Spike's last name is actually German for "mirror" and he does use a 9mm Jericho (can't remember the model number), which was developed by IMI; but I don't think just because he uses an Israeli-made gun that it means he's Jewish. Although, you do wonder why not something more particular, like a Colt or even a Walther, and it is Anime so all the details count. Who knows. EreinionImage:RAHSymbol.JPG

Uhh... As a name, Spiegel is traditionally Jewish. It doesn't really matter what it means as an improper noun.

Says you. He is opposite a man named "Vicious". Foreign nouns are used as names in anime, live with it. 68.155.128.224 14:10, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Spike's gun is featured in the Cowboy Bebop CD-Box set, OST Limited Edition. According to the illustration on the liner notes book, the gun is a Jericho 941 by Poseidon Military Industries.Cuneiform 10:51, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

The episode with the preview is session #7, "Heavy Metal Queen", and the episode he is previewing is session #8, Waltz for Venus." In the preview, Jet says he is 36 years old. This is in both the sub and dub.Cuneiform 10:51, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

c.2002 There has been much controversy and speculation as to the cultural and nationality of each character on the Bebop Board (bebopboard.com) in earlier incarnations. Nothing is certain, though I think someone had a reference to Faye being Singaporean. I do not have that reference, however. Spike is not known to be Jewish.Cuneiform 10:51, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Oops

I'm brand new to editing Wiki, and I hadn't realized there was this talk feature associated with each page before I made some changes to the Cowboy Bebop entry. Apologies if this is bad form, and it won't happen again.

I basically just added a section on Sergio Leone/Clint Eastwood's Man With No Name being one of the big three characters Spike was drawn from, and corrected the references in relation to the episode Pierrot le fou. It was actually V for Vendetta that the ep was an homage to, not Batman, and the original French film of the same title most certainly provided the title.

Um. I just noticed my changes were erased. Unfortunately, that means there the wrong info is back there now. For one thing, Lupin III is the name of the character, as well as the series. To erase the 'III" is incorrect. Secondly, the Man With No Name is a large influence on the character, and thirdly, Pierrot le fou most certainly has nothing to do with Batman.

Gonna put the information back now, thanks.

Go for it; it was some anonymous editor who removed your edits, and you've clearly researched your info. -℘yrop (talk) 22:44, May 12, 2005 (UTC)

Moons

I made a change about the moons. Callisto is not all male. Only the city of Blue Crow is. Also, Ganymede was left out, so I added that as well. I haven't looked over the whole article but I will soon and see if there is anything I can add or rework.

I'm glad you did so. How can you forget Ganymede?! Dave 14:17, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

Sessions

I'd like to make the sessions section nice and orderly, like it's done in the Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex article. EreinionImage:RAHSymbol.JPG 06:24, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

Episode Articles

I think it would be a good idea to do individual articles on episodes, like M*A*S*H has. Comments? -- A Link to the Past 22:48, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

Sure.

rfblues.aaanime.net has a web page called The Real Folk Blues which has comprehensive episode information, character descriptions, album music with episode cross-references, and scrips. Please check with the web host to use any of her information.Cuneiform 11:36, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Ending on Spike

There is a very controversial question about what really happens at the end. Regardless of even the creators intention it is unclear whther Spike finally dies or not, therefore many people belive that he will recover after the battle with Vicious while others believe that he is finally at peace, with Vicious and Julia dead.

The controversy comes only from fans boys who don’t want to admit that spike died. The only person from the development team to say anything was a producer and wouldn’t confirm it either way so to avoid ticking the fans who want to believe spike is alive.

look at the foreshadowing in the series, from the very early on spike made mention about how life was like a dream he never woke from similar to many philosophies in Japan that state one is as dead or in a dream and death is an awakening (it is even in the article). Also the series and movie look at other people in similar situations and there deaths like Vincent from the movie and Rem (?) in a way these reflect the themes of death being an awakening and could even be viewed as foreshadowing spikes death, although the movie was made afterward it still took place right before the end of the series.

Furthermore in the case of Rem (the guy from the Jupiter jazz episode) the old Indian guy talks about each persons star going out as the die and he again mentions it before spikes death saying that it was about to fall or something like that, and after spike dies it explicitly shows his star going out.

It also plays the song with the words “I’m free” used several times then it shows spike laying dead with the words “you’re going to carry that weight” both refer how spike viewed death as an awakening and that he was now free of the burdens he had carried since his first “death”

The song also mentions “I’m ascending”

Also while not for certain the in the first episode the old guy “bull something” predicts spikes death, but he may also have been referring to Asimov’s girl friend.

The list goes on and on.

Leon Evelake 02:42, 17 February 2006 (UTC)02:41, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Yes, the star could have been Vicious'. As soon as I heard about the star, I thought of it as an obvious counter-argument. That and "You're gonna carry that weight" could be a reference to Spike, now having confronted his past, having to carry on and live with it. Spike being alive or dead doesnt really matter (I've always considered him dead, just because I like it when everyone dies at the end). The story is over, that's the important part. 68.155.128.224 14:18, 28 August 2006 (UTC)


Someone wrote this within my comment so im moving it Leon Evelake 19:50, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Although Spikes death i believe was a perfect ending to the series, the star that falls at the end, could have possibly been vicious's star falling, has anyone thought about that?


(This contribution is not linked to the paragraph above) The character mentioned above, "Rem", is actually Gren--Grencia Mars Elijah Guo Eckanar, comrade-in-arms with Vicious in the War on Titan. He was mortally wounded in a dogfight with Vicious in session #14, "Jupiter Jazz II."Cuneiform 11:33, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

One of the reasons there is a controversy about whether Spike is dead or still alive is that throughouth the series, Spike suffers a number of mortal wounds, mostly gunshots, but also grenade explosions. He falls 3 stories from a church while being buffeted by a grenade percussion blast. He is shot numerous times; in the movie he is shot in the chest point blank and tossed into a river. He is gripped in the chest till blood appears, obviously affecting his lungs. The bad guy grabs him by the neck and drags him and smashes his head through a window. He is also affected by the germ warfare "virus." He is lassoed around the neck and trampled by a horse. He is sideswiped by a car. If session #11, "Toys in the Attic" is to be taken seriously, he is asphyxiated by poisonous gas (just for a cigarette), subject to the cold of space as he opens both the airlocks of the ship, and is bitten by some weird creature that is deadly poisonous, though that's another controversy.

For a guy to take that kind of abuse (twice we see him wrapped head to toe in bandages), it's hard to think he could be taken out with only one swipe of a katana (Japanese long sword). This, I think, is the reason why many don't want Spike to be dead. As for the dying star being Vicious', even the mystic Bull has seen Spike's star fall, so it wouldn't make sense for the dying star to be anybody's but Spike's.

However, this remains a controversy, since it is not explicitly stated one way or the other what Spike's fate is.Cuneiform 11:33, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

I know it sounds weird and I'm bad at explaining things but here. Spike couldn't die unless Vicious were to kill him. Same went for Vicious, and I believe that was stated a number of times in the series. I'm not saying he's like a God or something but I think because he wanted to kill Vicious so badly it gave him the strength or whatever to carry on and go towards his goal. I know that sounds sappy, whatever. But then after he kills him, he has nothing left to live for, Julia's dead, and the main reason for living (that to kill Vicious) is complete. Then maybe either he just lets himself die, or the damage from all the past comes back and kills him, or maybe Vicious' attacks really did kill him but just took a while. Sorry this is very sloppily written. I'm in school and not supposed to be online.

"Vicious: I'm the only one who can keep you alive...And I'm the only one that can kill you..." Jupiter Jazz Pt.2 (-Kid. 15:36, 13 March 2007 (UTC))

While it was never stated explicitely that Spike is dead, based on the various genres that the series was drawn from, I can't see how he could be alive. He and Vicious are yin and yang. One can't live without the other. And if Vicious is definitely dead (which doesn't even seem to be up for discussion) I can't see Spike wanting to stay alive any longer. He was living to die throughout the entire series. Max 22:11, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Longevity/programming analysis

I've reduced/removed the following, it lacks sources, appears to be original research, and would probably be better suited as a part of the Adult Swim article if it could be substantiated with references.

However, as of late, Cowboy Bebop has had a growing number of anime fans reacting negativily to the series. Some note the repeated reruns by Cartoon Network shows that the network is not commited to "diversifying" their anime lineup, thereby not holding true to their [adult swim] moniker. In a sense, Cowboy Bebop is denying any anime series from entering Adult Swim and being given a chance to attain a fanbase outside of the current circle of fans. However, the arguement can be made that since Cowboy Bebop draws in new fans each time it is aired, Cartoon Network would be wise to capitalize on such ratings to attract advertisers to the particular timeslots. Others have cited the fanbase defending the Anime as "rabid," and cite the backlash made by anime fans to Dragonball Z fanboys for reference back when DBZ was popular. Some fans have gone out of their way and declared that Cowboy Bebop was "jumping the shark" due to endless reruns and fans that won't quit praising the acolades of the series. In any case, this is reactions that will pop up during the course of the fandom of anime with shows that become too popular for their own good. So long as fans show rabid interest in a particular anime series, their will be detractors that will denouce such rabid fandom with venom.

—Tarnas 00:45, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Appledelhi Siniz Hesap Lütfen

Though I watched the whole series countless times, did not realise until I read it. and I had to see it with my own eyes. The name of Ed's father means exactly "Excuse me, Check please" in Turkish (in fact, it should be Afedersiniz Hesap Lutfen if you want to be grammatically correct). There are durther Turkish influences present such as an Aile ahçesi/Aile Pazarı written on the shades of a cafe/shop, I have to check which is which, if someone is sure please edit it so. IT means Family Garden / Family Market correspondantly.

Image:Ed dad01t.jpg
Ed's dad's name is seen in the upper right of the bounty screen

unresized and uncropped version here

That's excellent. Good research. Ereinion 22:26, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Kabuki "influence" overplayed?(Fixed in major Influences edit Dec.16)

From the incredibly long influences section: "Cowboy Bebop inverts these notions of masking and quick change by presenting two sides of the same character in two different animated characters, instead of one actor playing two different characters. For example, Spike is depicted as the alter ego of Vicious."

I don't think foils were invented in Japanese theatre. Krymson 04:40, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

I think they're emphasizing dichotomy rather than a "split personality" of sorts. Spike and Vicious are like a yin/yang situation. Two equals that are opposite. Ereinion 03:31, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

While I'm no expert on the subject, I do think that the whole section IS overdone. There is no source through out the kabuki discussion, and it's entirely unclear whether it is, in fact, an acknowledged or widely agreed influence or just one writer's opinion. And even if it is an acknowledged influence, it goes into too much needless detail. If anyone wants to write a paper on the subject, I fully encourage it, but Wikipedia is not the place to publish it. 82.123.157.185 01:37, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
All references to Kabuki were added on July 18, 2005 by anonymous user 64.170.116.30. This was his/her only contribution to Wikipedia. I did a quick search with Google and it doesn't seem a copyvio, but I also couldn't find articles that discuss this supposed correlation between Kabuki and Cowboy Bebop. I think it could be considered original research, or maybe POV... Maybe we should remove that section, if we don't find a source that can confirm it. Mushroom 10:17, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
How about the references to Isaac Asimov, 12 Monkeys, and at least a dozen other science fiction subjects in the series? --Tokachu 04:35, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

I just took the kabuki stuff out ALONG WITH with a lot of analysis from the "influences" section(which is finally living up to it's name). There was a lot of general analysis in the influence section that should have gone in it's own section. There was also a lot of character analysis that should have gone into characters but was in influences proably because there is a "spoiler" warning at the beginning of influences and not characters. If you guys want to put the analysis back in, put it in the right section. I took it out anyway because a)this article is getting way too long already b)it was in the wrong fricking place c)character analysis w/ spoilers should either be in the characters section which should then have a spoiler warning or *GASP* it shouldn't be in the article AT ALL. This is an encyclopedia not an anime analysis page folks. Krymson 04:20, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Removed some extraneous links

I removed some extraneous Wiki links. Please see Wikipedia:Make_only_links_relevant_to_the_context for Wikipedia's Style Guide as my justification for doing so. --Cyde 23:49, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Garrett, I am putting a lot of work into getting these pages to conform to the Wikipedia Manual of Style. And then you come through and essentially vandalize my changes by reverting them. How about stopping in to have a mature discussion and we can talk about which links you want put back in? You can't possibly claim that all of those links need to be there, as many of them are just plain English words which should definitely not be linked. --Cyde 16:45, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Errors in Spike's profile?

"Spike faked his death to free himself from the organization." Where is this stated?

"This is due to a cybernetic prosthetic that Spike had implanted some time before he left the syndicate." Where is this stated?

The notion of being in a dream could also be explained by a Existentialist philosophy. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.26.73.67 (talk • contribs) .


I've decided to delete the 2nd one above. Spike does not have a cybernetic eye implanted. He states clearly in the final episode, that his eyes are different colors because he "lost one in an accident."

Did you miss the episode with the clear reference to his eye, being hey hey hey, a cybernetic eye? It's the one that opens up with a bunch of cybernetic eyes within a vat and then switches to Spike. Also, did you miss the first image of the series, with spikes eye bleeding in the church fight that was his first "death"? He lost his eye in "that accident". That's why he has two different color eyes.SiberioS 11:00, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Can you give me the ep. number? I have a copy of the series and can go check. — Ambush Commander(Talk) 21:59, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
Session #6, I think. "Sympathy for the Devil."

But he said he has two different color eyes to Julia, before his first death. And Gren learned it from Julia, so that's why he could realized Spike.

in session #6, "Sympathy for the Devil," it opens with Spike on an operating table with retractors on his eyelids, obvious preparation for surgery. The jars held different organs, but only one held an eye. The cybernetic eye appears on the screen, then a close-in shot of Spike's right eye, then Spike starting awake in a bar, holding his hand over his right eye.

In session #26, "Real Folks Blues II" he clearly tells Faye that his eye is a fake because it was lost in an accident.

The problem with the series is that they don't make the eyes different colors--or even two shades of brown--except perhaps in session #14, "Jupiter Jazz II" when Gren notices he's Spike because Julia said Spike's eyes were different colors.

In session #20, "Pierrot Le Fou", Spike's right eye (the fake one) glints with reflected light, which Tongpu sees and goes nuts over, because it reminds him of the cat present at his experiments--it had different colored eyes.

As for Spike faking his own death: session #26, The Real Folks Blues II, Spike says he will leave, Julia says "they'll kill you", then Spike says, "Let them say I'm dead." I take this as he was going to fake his death. In session #1, Asteroid Blues, Spike is shown to go to a shootout in a church where he exchanges fire with (presumably) other syndicate members, then he sets off a detonator.

Later, in session #5, Ballad of Fallen Angels, Spike is flashing back to the same shootout, followed by his staggering in the alley to Julia's place, where he falls face first into the pavement. I'd say that was faking his death.

Also in session #5, when Spike is talking to Annie, she says, "Why welcome the dead, it's all useless!" then answering Spike's protest, she said, "No, you're not; you died three years ago, that's how things work around here." Spike left the syndicate 3 years ago, because it was 3 years since he teamed up with Jet (Jupiter Jazz I).

Kabuki has got to go

Or at least tone it down. There are some ~18 Kabuki references in this page. I have never heard Cowboy Bebop and Kabuki in the same sentence. It just sounds like someone knows a little bit about Kabuki and perceives an influence that really isn't there. Do a search about it yourself:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&hs=f6W&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&q=%22cowboy+bebop%22+kabuki&spell=1

NO ONE is talking about it. There are many more influences that should be discussed before Kabuki. This guy is on the ball:

http://rfblues.aaanime.net/

I'm not going to delete anything. This isn't the places for new, or at least uncommon, theories. There are a hundred other influences that should go before Kabuki, and they definitely should take up 1/4 of the article. Please, tone it down a bit. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.26.73.67 (talk • contribs) .

Agreed, the kabuki crap has definitely got to go. --Cyde 03:18, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

Agreed. By the by, the article is getting a tad mussy, tad lengthy; it ought to be compiled better. The same goes for the Samurai Champloo article. Antrophica 06:40, 29 November 2005 (UTC)


Never mind. I missed this train by a week. Antrophica 08:35, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Swordfish II

About the Swordfish II, I thought it was a old Fighter-craft, not an asteroid racer.

Maverick Hunter 08:45, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

It was a monoracer that Doohan restored for Spike. It's safe to assume that the weaponry was added during this restoration. Ereinion 23:26, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

The reason it is called Swordfish II is that it was modeled after an existing (read: real) plane called the Swordfish (what else?). I have no reference for this, but it was mentioned on earlier incarnations of the Bebop Board.Cuneiform 11:41, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

The most famous type of plane I know of named the "Swordfish" was the Fairey Swordfish, a British torpedo plane that, despite being very outdated in WWII, helped sink the enormous German battleship Bismark. That seems appropriate to me, as a kind of underdog story, for the kind of inspiration one would use to design Spike's spacecraft. Although it's a biplane, it looks kind of like Spike's plane, as the torpedo resembles the big plasma-lance thingy-do. Just look up "Fairey Swordfish" here on Wikipedia for a picture. Ezstoltzfus 19:57, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Julia?

Someone just edited the article to say that Julia was Vicious' boyfriend and then Spike fell in love with her, causing him to leave the Syndicate. Is this true? --Cyde Weys talkcontribs 02:19, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

There was a love triangle between Spike, Julia, and Vicious. Spike and Vicious both fell in love with Julia, and Julia ended up choosing Spike over Vicious (but Julia and Vicious apparently had a rendevous either before or during this period). Spike wanted to leave the syndicate and take her with him, but Vicious found out, got jealous, and black mailed Julia, saying that if she didn't kill Spike, he would and then her to boot. The nore she's seen ripping up in Ballad of Fallen Angels was presumably the plan, telling her it was done and that they could leave. But she ripped it up and went into hiding...which, of course crushed Spike. All of this was sampled in a montage during the prelude to the first session. Ereinion 23:24, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

There are a lot of fans who feel that Julia betrayed Spike (see the first story arc). I'm not one of them; in fact, the act itself proved her love for him. Danny Lilithborne 09:20, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

The fact she didn't go to him I completely agree. She would have led Vicious right to him. But see Spike didn't realize this. From his point of view, she chose Vicious and her life in the syndicate over him. Very sad... Eluchil 09:36, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Julia was never anyone's boyfriend.Cuneiform 13:07, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

heheheh nice. (-Kid. 15:42, 13 March 2007 (UTC))

Still scenes picture Julia with each of Spike and Vicious. (ending credit and "Real Folks Blues II"). Closing credits show Vicious walking in front, Spike following behind and turning his head to Julia who ran up to them. Another credit scene shows Spike and Julia walking in a door while Vicious meets them from the top of the stairs.Cuneiform 13:07, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Spike was in love with Julia, as evidenced in his burning need to find her in "Jupiter Jazz I & II." Also in these episodes, Spike says to Vicious, "Are you seeing Julia behind my back?" indicating Spike claimed full rights to an exclusive relationship with Julia.Cuneiform 13:07, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

There is a scene in both "Ballad of Fallen Angels" and "Real Folks Blues" where Vicious and Spike are fighting back to back, and they smile knowingly at each other. They seemed to be friends in the syndicate.Cuneiform 13:07, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Suggestion: "Westerns" to "Spaghetti Western"

Since Cowboy Bebop has most to credit to Sergio Leone's brand of "Spaghetti Westerns" (vs. "Western") the influences on this page should be changed to reflect that. Cowboy Bebop as far as I can discern has very little to do with "Classic Westerns" - such as the plethora of John Ford directed westerns before the arrival of Sergio Leone (a good archetypical western would be My Darling Clementine). A typical classic western would showcase a hero who is a straight shooter, clearly defined morality, a clear and cohesive view of the world, etc. I don't get that from Cowboy Bebop. -- Falmarin 02:28, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

  • Some people find the term spaghetti western offensive, and Cowboy Bebop is designed to be syncretic in nature. I'm against it. Danny Lilithborne 02:32, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
  • Danny, if Roger Ebert and other Film critics say it and there's a wikipedia entry titled it, we can use it here. Falmarin, I understand your point, go ahead and change it to your liking, just keep the bullet concise. I don't completely agree with you on the "clearly defined morality" or "clear and cohesive view of the world", but yeah, in most ways CB is closer to spaghetti westerns than John Ford ones. Krymson 08:15, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Murder and stuff

Half of the Bebop series was banned from public tv. This is mainly due to vey poor timing. Back when the production wrapped up for the show, a middle schooler (in Japan) brutally murdered another student and promptly displayed his head on the front gates of his school (to the surprise of students and teachers the next morning). The boy who commited the murder claimed he was influenced by the TV and video games (deja vu, eh?). Parents and School officials were in a uproar, thus causing Japan to start to censor and ban shows from being broadcasted on public TV. This is why very graphic series like Paranoia Agent and Cowboy Bebop are only aired, late night, on Japans Satelite TV Channel WOWOW. Half of Cowboy Bebops episodes were still aired because the series was already complete and already had plans to be aired.

I've removed this text because it was not sourced. Any news articles verifying it? — Ambush Commander(Talk) 02:06, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

I heard that the reason that only half of the episodes were shown on Japanese TV was to promote DVD sales. On a sensitive issue like this, I would think that they would censor episodes, rather than show less episodes, but still kept the uncensored. 87th 20:04, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
In English? I doubt it. This is pretty common knowledge, anyway. Just Google it.

Weapons

The following text was added new user User:AJeong86 and removed by anon IP User:68.158.33.139. I seriously doubt the appropriateness of the info in this particular article, but it's quite a bit of info, and it would be a shame to see it go to waste. — Ambush Commander(Talk) 22:21, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Being the world of Bounty-Hunters,Police,Criminal Organizations and so on; there are quite a few weapons to be seen; here is a list of them.

Pistols:

  • GLOCK 30 (Austrian .45 caliber,ultra compact pistol; used by Faye)
  • Browning Hi-Power (aka the 'King of the Nines,' a Begian 9mm handgun)
  • Heckler & Koch Mark 23 Mod 0 (aka the SOCOM Psitol; a German .45 caliber semi-automatic pistol developed for U.S. SOCOM)
  • Heckler & Koch USP (German automatic pistol; caibers range from 9mm to .45, used by ISSP)
  • Walther P99 (German 9mm Automatic pistol; used by Jet)
  • Walther PPK (German 9mm compact pistol)
  • IMI Jericho 941 (Israeli semi-automatic pistol; calibers range from 9mm to .41AE, used by Spike)
  • Beretta Model 92F (Italian 9mm semi-automatic pistol)
  • Colt Government M1911A1 (American .45 caliber semi-automatic pistol, used by Julia)
  • Colt Single Action Army (aka "The Peacemaker," a .45 Long Colt six-shot revolver, used by Andy "The Cowboy")
  • Ruger P Series 85 (American 9mm Semi-automatic pistol)
  • Shin's Gun (Unknown Type, Possibly a SIG)
  • SIG-Sauer P226 (Swiss/German 9mm Semi-Automatic Pistol; official sidearm of the U.S. Navy SEALs)
  • Smith & Wesson Model 29 (American .44 Magnum Revolver)
  • Wen's Gun (Unknown Type)

Sub-Machine Guns:

Assault Rifles:

Sniper Rifles:

  • H&K PSG-1 (German 7.62mm Semi-Automatic Sniper Rifle)

Shotguns:

  • Franchi SPAS-12 (Italian 12-Gauge Pump-Action/Semi-Automatic Shotgun)
  • Remington M870 (American 12-Gauge Pump-Action Shotgun)

Machine Guns:

  • General Electric M134 Minigun (American 7.62mm sixbarrel machine gun)

Artillery:

  • M79 Grenade Launcher (American 40mm Single Shot Grenade Launcher)
  • MGL (Multiple Grenade Launcher; Six-Shot Grenade Launcher)
What's that gun that Spike uses in session 6 Sympathy For The Devil,to put the special bullet in Wen's head?.I've seen security guards using it,but i dont know what it is,is like a pistol in shape but uses one large calibre bullet--Andres rojas22 18:04, 6 February 2007 (UTC)


-I believe that the gun you're asking about is a Thompson/Center Contender. http://www.tcarms.com/firearms/g2Contender.php (The current version of the pistol) - R.

Faye's profile error

The Article stats that "By all appearances, Faye is a twenty-three year old woman in 2071. However, she was actually born in 1994 and was cryogenically frozen after the gate accident." However this is wrong. Faye was frozen before the gate incident not after. As is stated the gate incident occured in 2021, However Faye was frozen 54 years, and was running around on her own for 3 years before joining up with the Bebop. Timeline wise this means:

1994 Faye is born
2014 Faye is involved in a shuttle accident and crygencially frozen
2021 Lunar gate incident takes place (Resulting in a tremendous lose of information and records from earth, including Faye's true last name)
2068 Whitney and his unlce the doctor thaw Faye from her crogenic sleep
2071 Cowboy Bebop begins.

Chikiko 04:26, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Text behind opening credits?

Has anyone seen/pulled the copy that appears behind the opening credits? Seems to me like this, or at least a link to it elsewhere, would make a good addition to the Bebop wiki, as it provides a piece of background to the story - or seems to, from what I've peiced together.

Cheers. Egosub2 18:28, 17 February 2006 (UTC)


Once upon a time, in New York City in 1941... at this club open to all comers to play, night after night, at a club named "Minston's Play House" in Harlem, they play jazz sessions competing with each other. Young jazz men with a new sense are gathering. At last they created a new genre itself. They are sick and tired of the conventional fixed style jazz. They're eager to play jazz more freely as they wish then... in 2071 in the universe... The bounty hunters, who are gathering in the spaceship "BEBOP", will play freely without fear of risky things. They must create new dreams and films by breaking traditional styles. The work, which becomes a new genre itself, will be called... COWBOY BEBOP

source: jazz messengers

--Lowg 03:49, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Spike/Vicious/Julia

The whole section about the love triangle is far too detailed to be true. Most of what actually happened between the three of them, we'll probably never know. Is all this info from the manga? If so, it should be separated from what happened in the anime. Also, some of it's just plain wrong. Julia didn't shoot Spike in the face - she didn't even go to the cemetary that day! "And so you didn't come because of the rain," right? I'd fix it myself but I don't know where to start or how to accurately convey all the ambiguity.


Still scenes picture Julia with each of Spike and Vicious. (ending credit and "Real Folks Blues II"). Closing credits show Vicious walking in front, Spike following behind and turning his head to Julia who ran up to them. Another credit scene shows Spike and Julia walking in a door while Vicious meets them from the top of the stairs.Cuneiform 13:11, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Spike was in love with Julia, as evidenced in his burning need to find her in "Jupiter Jazz I & II." Also in these episodes, Spike says to Vicious, "Are you seeing Julia behind my back?" indicating Spike claimed full rights to an exclusive relationship with Julia.Cuneiform 13:11, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

There is a scene in both "Ballad of Fallen Angels" and "Real Folks Blues" where Vicious and Spike are fighting back to back, and they smile knowingly at each other. They seemed to be friends in the syndicate.Cuneiform 13:11, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Western Influences on Cowboy Beebop

I also think that Bob Dylan is a big influence on cowboy beebop, Firstly the movie was called "Knockin on heaven's door" which is a well known Dylan song. Also in the manga there is a chapter called "Like a rolling stone" which is another Dylan song. and in my opinion, Spike bears a strinking resembelce to dylan in the mid 60's, with the ciggarette and the hair plus some facial features

(this comment is not connected with paragraph above)Spike was modeled after the character Yusaku Matsuda in Tantel Monogatari according to the creators' interview on the Cowboy Bebop Movie DVD extras.Cuneiform 12:01, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Carry That Weight

The tagline in the last episode "You're gonna carry that weight . . . " is a reference to the Beatles song "Carry That Weight" from the album "Abbey Road." Dunno if this is worthy of inclusion, but the references to the Rolling Stones and Stray Cats have made it, so perhaps.

Egosub2 00:46, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Sure. Put it in.

Spike = Vicious?

Could it be possible that Vicious is the alter-ego of Spike? They both were involved in a relationship with Julia. Vicious orders Julia to murder Spike when at their rendevous with Spike hoping to meet her. She never comes. Spike believes that Julia had forsaken him that fateful night, when she only did so because she loved him. Vicious is now on the hunt for Julia, but is he really Spike searching for her and himself? Spike tells the shaman that he was already "killed by a woman" when the shaman predicts that he will first be hunted by a woman and then by death. This is because Spike in the first episode is still unaware of the reason why Julia disappeared, so in his outlook, he is already dead. Spike also doesn't talk much about his past. He tells Faye before he leaves to kill Vicious that he is not doing it to die, but to see if he is really alive. Spike also tells her that he wants to find out if what he had experienced in life was reality. Vicious tells Spike that only they can keep alive or kill each other. When they both become unarmed during the final confrontation, Spike tells Vicious that Julia is dead. He then tells Vicious that they should end it all. Vicious says, "If that's what you want." They then fight to the death. It's as if at this point, Spike realizes that he was wrong the whole time about Julia. Vicious is the side of him that believes she had forsaken him and the side that is hunting for her, to "kill" her just like she "killed" Spike. When they reunite, Julia wants to run away with Spike. He then learns he was was mistaken, but it's too late because she dies later on. All that time his reality was based on assumption. That is why he says that to Faye and tells Vicious to end it once and for all. His false eye represents the lie he believed about Julia, while his real eye represents the truth of what happened. He cannot continue living with this ordeal, so it results in his death (which he accepts), just like the shaman predicted. I'm thinking that maybe the creators did this with Spike and Vicious just like they did with Spike and Vincent. Perhaps the two characters reflect his different sides. What do you all think?

I think that's bunk and makes little sense. The whole theme of the series is that Spike wasn't sure if he was really alive or dead, if he was living or just dreaming, because he still loves Julia. He's stuck in the past and he's still stuck on her, despite everything that happened. When he kills Vicious, he remembers Julia's words and realizes he wasn't really living at all because being obsessed with the past is no way to live. While I think there are some interesting parallels and such between Spike and Vicious I definitely don't think they were intended to be alter egos - more like foils to each other.

Session XX : Mish-Mash Blues = Collection Blues?

in the fansubbed version of Session XX the transleted title is "Collection Blues". the original hiragana and katakana are "yoseatsume burûsu" (burûsu = Blues). here is a screeshot

so, what is "yoseatsume"? does it mean something like "collection" or "to collect" or does it mean "mish-mash"?


and in History of Bebop the sentence: The episode XXX is said to be protest by staff for the treatment of the show though.

why episode XXX? its title is definitely episode/Session XX, as you also can see at AniDB.net

--Shinji-kun 19:58, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

About the PSG-1

What session does the PSG-1 appear in? 68.146.106.0 05:23, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Added Resource

As I failed to mark the function of the update I applied recently, the purpose is described below:

Added reference link to TheBebopBoard

Thanks. --Zonaxx 04:20, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Movie Infobox

Is there really any need for the movie infobox here? The movie does have it's own page, after all. --InShaneee 17:42, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

It may not be necessary on this particle article since it does have it's own page. However, if the movie infobox is removed then an additional infobox should be added for Related Works listing the Cowboy Bebop movie. --Miss Ethereal 14:14, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
The info box should not be removed as this article is about Cowboy Bebop in general as well as the TV series specifically. The infobox links to the movie article. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 17:38, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
I'd support a 'related works' infobox. This article really doesn't have much info about the movie, so a movie infobox does seem like overkill. After all, the whole point of a Wiki system is that you don't have to duplicate information. --InShaneee 19:19, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree that the movie infobox is unnecessary. The movie is briefly mentioned in the header, which also includes a link to Knockin' on Heaven's Door. The movie is not detailed much more than this in the article, and thus the infobox loses most of its meaning. On another note, if the infobox is to be kept on the grounds that this article is about Cowboy Bebop as a whole, then another infobox should be added to detail the manga, as well. JimmyBlackwing 23:13, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Make a template for CB related articles.--Dangerous-Boy 00:43, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

I added one manga box, though there's more than one manga series, as well as some light novels and toher releases. (^_^) ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 04:53, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I meant add something like this:
v • d • e
Vampire Hunter D
Animated Titles
Light Novels & Books
Volume 1  · 2  · 3  · 4  · 5  · 6  · 7  · 8  · 9  · 10  · 11  · 12  · 13  · 14  · 15  · 16  · 17  · 18  · 19
Dark Nocturne  · Other Short Stories  · Art and Guide Books
Manga Series
Video Game
Music & Audio Dramas
Vampire Hunter D OST  · Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust OST  · Vampire Hunter D Audio Dramas

--Dangerous-Boy 18:28, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree, making a template like that to be put at the bottom of the article is probably the best solution. --InShaneee 18:42, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

DB, any chance you could tweak that infobox a bit more before putting it on the page? As of right now, everything's crammed to one side and there's a giant blank space... --InShaneee 04:04, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Those are the max of my template skills. Are you sure everythings crammed to one side? Everything looks centered to me. I only made since it would take someone else forever to start one. you can improve it if you want.--Dangerous-Boy 18:18, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
Ah, got the template working, I see. Very nice! --InShaneee 06:03, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

split

46 k warning. too much stuff--Dangerous-Boy 09:13, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Probably be better for the article itself to just cut it down, as was just done in part by the removal of the unneccisary weapons section. I oppose a disambiguating split. --InShaneee 18:41, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Why couldn't we just move some things like character profiles/session summaries/weapons to alternate pages?

There's nothing long enough to be worth moving to a seperate page (and the weapons section was just unencyclopedic). --InShaneee 19:32, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
I think the character section should really be split unless it's trimmed to just a paragragh for each character. But this is a popular series and fans will generally continue to expand such sections. SOundtrack and sessions should be trimmed down. No need for them to be so big when they have their own articles. --Dangerous-Boy 23:17, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
The character sections can be trimmed a little, but there's really not enough material to warrant its own page. The soundtrack section can be trimmed slightly, sure. --InShaneee 23:21, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
I think it should be trimmed down with as little spoilers as possible. Maybe a paragraph for each.--Dangerous-Boy 05:37, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
Probably merge the weapons sections with the characters sections. Just state who uses what weapon with a wiki link. This should get rid of the problem of the weapon list.--Dangerous-Boy 07:55, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
I see no point to having that information at all. And spoilers are a good thing if they add to the understanding of the character. This is an encyclopedia, after all, not a fansite. --InShaneee 18:56, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
That precisely why we shouldn't have so many spoilers. It's a not fansite. You can go to fansites for that. I don't really care about the weapons. I think it's better off to merge character and weapon sections. Its kind of interesting what weapon each character uses.--Dangerous-Boy 22:17, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
Kind of interesting maybe, but not really useful or noteworthy. And we're here to provide information; if spoilers help to add to a character's profile, they most definatly should be there. For instance, Vicious dies at the end of the series. That's a spoiler, but it's also highly relevant information about him. --InShaneee 00:31, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
How so? Maybe some tidbits for his past is fine but his death is huge spoiler. I think spike's death is more worth noting.--Dangerous-Boy 02:40, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
Yes, it is a huge spoiler, but that's not the point. We need ALL the relevant information about them. This is an encyclopedia; we don't care about spoilers. --InShaneee 13:58, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
If were really going to keep all that stuff than the character section should really have it's own page then.--Dangerous-Boy 20:07, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
I really don't think it's that time just yet. WP:FICT says that should be done only when the main page gets bloated because of them; I'm not sure that's happened yet. --InShaneee 20:15, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
Well...I'm glad to see you took so much away from that discussion. --InShaneee 19:56, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
What do you mean?--Dangerous-Boy 19:42, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Episodes

Recently, I have taken the information from the Sessions section of the main page and added it at the beginning of the new Episodes page. I feel that this is enough of a cut down to keep the size of the article manageable for the time being while we are still deciding what to do.

As a separate issue, what do we do with the Media page? Because without the episode summaries carrying it, it really shouldn't have it's own page. -- Makaio 00:45, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

You can move the theme songs stuff to this page and the movie page. That's what the ghost in shell SAC article has. SOundtracks are already taken care of under the seatbelts page. The manga list can be it's own article. You can move the links to the yoko kano article and the seatbelts article.--Dangerous-Boy 03:54, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Spike's Death

In several recent interviews about Samurai Champloo, Wantanabe said that he was glad that unlike in Cowboy bebop all the characaters in Champloo Survived, this should probably be noted since it seems to confirm spikes death. Leon Evelake

  • I don't think it should be mentioned, since it could in theory be referring to Vicious. --InShaneee 21:10, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
  • I dont think so, because if he was referring to Vicious it wouldn’t make sense being that the antagonist characters in Champloo died as well. To me it seemed to be a pretty direct reference to the main characters.207.200.116.197
  • I remember reading (may've even been here) that in an interview Watanabe stated that he wondered why people were upset about Spike dying, as it may have only been his dream (or something along those lines). In either case it's meant to be ambiguous.--142.162.207.103 01:16, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
  • I don't know. I always figured spike for dead. He fell down the stairs wish several major ijuries with the enemy surrounding him. It would be very Poke'mon to have the enemy not kill him and it wouldn't be right to leave the series off as a dream. He's dead to me. 13:47, 2 March 2007 Davada
  • Even though many people believe Spike to be alive, I'm pretty sure he died. Throughout the series we all know how Spike survives massive injuries and later on recovers from them. In this case, I don't think he does. I agree with Davada on this one. I think the only purpose of living was Julia. Then again...Spike's character was never alive to begin with. He 'died' when Julia didn't escape with him from the syndicate. In Cowboy Bebop, Spike is always speaks about dreams, nightmares and reality. When Julia died he was woken up from the dream and realized that he wasn't afraid to die anymore. hysterhea 12:31, 17 March 2007

Weapons section

Something needs to be done about that. Either merge with the character sections or get rid of it.--Dangerous-Boy 18:52, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

As I said above, I'm in favor of getting rid of it. --InShaneee 23:00, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
get rid of it then...--Dangerous-Boy 05:52, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

merge 24.188.203.181 05:53, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Trivia section

"3 of the seiyuu who voiced characters here also voiced characters in Neon Genesis Evangelion" I don't this this is really a valid trivia unless it's not coincidental. Else, it would be trivia saying some of them were in Love Hina together, etc. --Wirbelwind 15:22, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. Nuke it! --InShaneee 19:11, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Nuke it!--D-Boy 21:44, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
That mushroom cloud signifys that it is now done. :) --InShaneee 00:53, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Just Some Thoughts

-PS1 game is not mentioned at the top with the PS2 game, but is mentioned later on. Perhaps the entry should just say that two games werre produced, without being too specific.

- In the Background section, a claim is made that there are only 1.3 billion people left in 2071. However, I have added up the numbers given in volume 4 of the English version of the Anime guides, and the number is closer to 1.5 billion. But even that number doesn't include the people inccarcerated in Pluto's prisons, people who live in observatories/science stations or people living in places like the one featured in Bohemian Rhapsody.

Also, that same section claims that the population decline was due to the explosion of the gate. While many millions where probably lost to that incedent, we can't speculate on a number because we don't have enough data on the events that occured afterwards. How many people died trying to escape Earth? How many people died while trying to colonize the other planets? How many people died during the Titan wars? Cowboy Bebop doesn't really deal with that time period, so it's impossible to say.

- Also in the background, it says that "Many of Mars' impact craters were domed", but if you what the show, and especially the movie, you can see that Mars doesn't have domes! The cities of Mars are surrounded by towers (or pylons) that pump out gases into the craters.

TV: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/redstranger/bebop/screen%20caps%20-%20other/5942e62a.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/redstranger/bebop/screen%20caps%20-%20other/cap837.jpg

Movie: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/redstranger/bebop/screen%20caps%20-%20other/cap004.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/redstranger/bebop/screen%20caps%20-%20other/cap545.jpg

- I don't think Io has volcanos, or at least they are not shown in Bebop. The guide books don't mention volcanoes either. They do say that Io is supposed to be based on Central/South America, Mexico, Texas and the wild west. (See volumes #4 & #5)

- The war on Titan - the guide book says that the moon is under "constant civil strife" but doesn't say that the war is still ongoing. The wiki page implies that the war Gren, Vicious, and Vincent fought in is still ongoing. Also, Electra is a Titan war vet.

- Cryogenic freezing has not been mastered and is not in full use. Faye is the only person on the show who ever went through the process, and when Spike overhears her story, he doesn't believe it.

- "Virtual reality gaming is the standard and analog hardware such as videocassettes (VHS or beta) is obsolete." I don't know if virtual reality gaming is really the standard, since the product seen in Scratch was supposed to be new. Also, the Spokey Dokey (or whatever it was called) game in the movie wasn't a VR game, though that might have been a retro arcade.

- The english PS2 is almost certainly canceled. the offical website (http://www.cowboybebop-thegame.com/), which formerly had a flash "Coming Soon" type screen, now says: "Thank you for visiting! This website is no longer available. You will now be re-directed to NamcoBandaiGames.com" This is mentioned later on in the article, but in another part it says the as of June the release date has not been announced.

- Regarding the V for Vendetta influnce for Pierre Le Fou - this wiki page is the first time I have ever seen it mentioned. I more frequently hear about it being influence by Batman, which would make more sense considering the other movie references and lack of comic book references in the show. The V For Vendetta movie had not been made when Bebop was created, but there were several Batman movies, and animations at that point. If you look at the entry in the Episodes list, it has the Batman reference.

Both should be removed if there is no source.

- Regarding Ganemede Elegy & "The Doll House". I'm not sure if this is correct, and I think it sould be taken out if there is no source. I have always seen Jet & Alisa relationship to be a mirror of the one Vicious (Spike old partner) had with Julia. Jet got dumped by Alisa, while Julia though about leaving Vicious and going off with Spike. Alisa got involved with another man, who got in trouble with a gang, and killed one of it's members. Julia got involved with Spike, who was involved with the syndicate and killed a whole bunch of syndicate members. Alisa and Rhint went on the run and were chased by Jet. Julia and Spike are on the run, being chased by Vicious. Alisa and Rhint were ultimately caught by Jet, while Vicious ultimately caught up with Julia and Spike.

I'm not saying that my theory is correct, I'm just saying that The Doll House thing needs a source.

I also think that influences that are specific to an individual episode should go on the episode page.

Some more thought based on the Talk Section:

- Pretty much all the Bebop books that I have (Both English & Japanese) have Ed's full name as Edward Wong Hau Pepelu Tivrusky IV, and that's what it is on the DVDs too.

- Jet's age is 36 according to the anime guides, and I believe this age has been published many time elsewhere.

- Re: the Sergio Leone/Clinteast Wood thing. Yes there is an obvious reference to westerns, but unless one of the creators specifically says this movie or that character, I don't think specifics should be mentioned. Where is the source?

- Re the epsiodes that didn't air on the first run: I'd have to check, but I think the creators mentioned something about it in the DVD extras some where. I will have to check.

- Spike does have a fake eye, that is why they are two different colours. How and when he got it is a mystery, but it was before he met Julia, not when he left the syndicate.

You don't have to have the creator's permission to list a refrence. If it's obvious they're refrencing something, then it should be put in the article.

No , but you are supposed to list a source. Also, unless one of the creators of the series actually confirms the reference, you can't actually be sure that that was what they were referencing, particularly since they come from another culture.

For example, it's commonly believed that the anime movie "Metropolis" is inspired by the Fritz Lang film. But it's not! It's based off of a manga by Osamu Tezuka, who had not seen the Lang film when he created the manga. (see http://en.tezuka.co.jp/manga/sakuhin/m011/m011_01.html)

About Western influence in Spike's character, it is nonexistent: Spike was modeled after the character Yusaku Matsuda in Tantel Monogatari according to the creators' interview on the Cowboy Bebop Movie DVD extras.Cuneiform 13:36, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Spike's fake eye: Gren tells him Julia said Spike's eyes are different colors (Jupiter Jazz II). Since Spike hadn't seen Julia since he left the Syndicate, he got the eye before he left.Cuneiform 13:36, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure he got it while he knew Julia. I remember flashbacks of like, him going to her with his eye all bloodied and stuff. (-Kid. 12:07, 14 March 2007 (UTC))

The reason for clean up?

The person who tagged this article for clean up failed to give a reason on the talk page. For that reason, I'm removing the tag. Michiganotaku 23:30, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

I really wanted to tag

the page with this, but I'll refrain. :-)

Current event marker This article or section contains information regarding a future spaceflight.
Due to the nature of the content, details may change dramatically as the launch date approaches and/or more information becomes available.

Pierrot Le Fou

I notice the article claims Pierrot Le Fou was heavily based off of V from V for Vendetta. I believe he was actually based off of Batman's The Joker and The Penguin, or so several internet articles have led me to believe. Futhermore, having read V for Vendetta, I can't say there are any similarities other than them both undegoing lab experimentation and their skill in combat, and even the lab experimentation aspects were very different. Someone wanna remove or fix that? 83.151.197.97 09:49, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

I see this has come up before, and also that my edit has been reverted. It doesn't really matter that much, but it is juvenile to ignore comments and revert edits. Google for any Bebop fansite, such as [[2]], ot hell, check the Pierrot Le Fou episode entry, and you'll see it's highly likely Le Fou was based off of said Batman villains. Still, I'm not going to bother if some nameless asshat is going to revert without saying a word or offer a shred of citation. 83.151.197.97 23:41, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

"... you'll see it's highly likely Le Fou was based off of said Batman villains."
Says who? A couple fansites? Unless we've got a citation from the creators, it's original research.--71.112.234.168 20:06, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Well at the very least, the V for Vendetta link should be removed, as there no evidence that he is based of of V either. 83.151.197.97 11:49, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

DVD Releases

I came to this article because I was looking for some information on the differences between the various DVD releases of Cowboy Bebop (ie. original US release Cowboy Bebop Sessions vs. Cowboy Bebop Remix vs. any Japanese DVD releases, etc.). Much to my surprise, there's no information available here! If anyone has knowledge of the various DVD releases, I think adding that information to the article would definitely be useful and pertinent (as well as much appreciated!) - Runch 03:02, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

The tags and their reasonings

Doing a scan of this article, I am sorely surprised at the lack of references (One source? Out of what?) and the numerous statements that look like original research (Like in the influences section). It looks like a fan site more than an encyclopedic article.

The references section i'm most surprised about. Nobody has those CB guides Tokyopop put out years ago? No artbooks or other media from Japan? The Influences section....several of them smack of original research and don't have a reference to back it up.

I think this is why it got canned from being a featured article. Namely, it severely violates rule 1c. --293.xx.xxx.xx 10:41, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Rule 1c? As in....? Anyway, I agree. Too much fan stuff. I guess some are OK, like the bruce lee stuff, but in general this is way too fan-like. --SidiLemine 11:16, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

(c) "Factually accurate" means that claims are verifiable against reliable sources and accurately present the related body of published knowledge. Claims are supported with specific evidence and external citations (see verifiability and reliable sources); this involves the provision of a "References" section in which sources are set out and, where appropriate, complemented by inline citations. See citing sources for information on when and how extensively references are provided and for suggestions on formatting references; for articles with footnotes or endnotes, the meta:cite format is recommended. And most, if not virtually 99% of the article violates this rule. --293.xx.xxx.xx 05:22, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

TVRage.com Link

InShaneee, I've included the link to TvRage.com's page for Cowboy Bebop. Their guide has been constructed better than TV.com's, the info is more accurate, and they have a bigger quantity of it. If you take it down, then TV.com's page needs to come down as well. It's poorly constructed and a lot of info was deleted from it when they switched from TvTome. Just because they get more hits doesn't mean they have better info. I will cite examples if you're going to push the issue. And if you delete again without dicussion, I will demand an Admin step in and look at both sites. JohnQ.Public 14:21, 16 October 2006

I am an admin, and I have looked at both sites. We've already got too many external links, and there's a reason we created a standard template for tv.com. --InShaneee 14:21, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

If you looked at both sites, you'd see they have more info than them. And a number of your links are bad to begin with. No offense, but if TV.com is your standard, you need to rethink what defines a standard. If you really what that piece of junk to represent what you think is a good TV link, more power to you. I just figured you wanted actual quality to be added here. JohnQ.Public 14:27, 16 October 2006

Just my two cents but I don't see why tvrage.com can't replace tv.com if it has better information on a specific series, or even have a tvrage template created? I'll admit that I haven't looked at tvrage's page, but if it really does have better information than tv.com, then I don't see why tvrage can't be included. --Wirbelwind 21:46, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
That user is a spammer from TVRage.com who's been going around claiming that his site is vastly superior and needs to replace all tv.com links. He's now blocked. --InShaneee 14:35, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Lupin the 3rd

I was just going to throw in a citation needed, but the Lupin the Third article is HEAVILY flawed, not just a little, and I removed it entirely as I could find no way to rewrite it properly. There were no citations other than what people deem self "obvious", and Wantanbe -himself- has addressed the Lupin the 3rd/Spike similiarites with a -very- "*shrug*, not really" attitude. If the need becomes to cite this, I will, but again, please keep this a little more "factual" than speculation. The only true influence documented by wantanbe and staff was indeed that of the actor for detective movies, and NOT lupin the 3rd. If you find sources stating otherwise, feel free to correct me. I have no problem with him being an influence, but there's too much evidence suggesting he at least wasn't as big of one as stated here.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.142.130.41 (talk) .

This would be great to have sourced. Anyone knows when/where Watanabe dienied this, and said the detective movies stuff? I think we should take the influences the whole other way around. Not speculate and then try to source it, but more look for sources and include anything we find. --SidiLemine 12:12, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Influences

I suspect that the Influences in this article were found from this site http://rfblues.aaanime.net/Omake/Influences/ It's organized at the top from different sessions from 1-13,14-end,movie I feel that although it does need to cite sources and it is self researched claims, the influences are accurate.

No Original Research. Unless it can be linked to credible sources, it risks being deleted.--293.xx.xxx.xx 00:05, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Episodes

The screening times for Australia are wrong, I belive. I watched Cowboy Bebop the Movie on free-to-air network SBS last night Thursday 28th December 2006, which is ahead of the "premiere" date of 2007 mentioned.

Also, I'm SURE that this has been on SBS before within the past few years. 141.202.248.11 22:12, 28 December 2006 (UTC)K.R.

References

Spike's character inspiration is confirmed on the "Cowboy Bebop: The Movie" DVD. This is not, however, documented anywhere I can find online. If I state the exact featurette from the DVD, would it still need an internet citation? Squierhater01 03:38, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

DVD Release Information

A lot of other anime, or for that matter any show, have release information. I know that it would be very helpful to readers. This does not require reviews or anything, but I bring this up because there was an initial collector's edition release (out of print) and a second, compressed release (the only one still available), along with the standard 4-ep seperate dvds. Very few people differentiate between the two, but someone should be able to find out and add this fact somewhere. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.112.200.106 (talk) 03:54, 25 January 2007 (UTC).

I'll add some of that later. It's all in the encyclopedia on Anime News Network if anyone else wants to find it. Hewinsj 14:01, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

A suggestion

Instead of having the the Soundtrack and Staff sections on the the main Cowboy Bebop page and a List of Cowboy Bebop manga page. Would it not be better to merge them into a newly formed List of Cowboy Bebop media page. (Duane543 02:11, 1 March 2007 (UTC))

You could do something like that. Make a Media page to give detail on all of the various media releases, but leave a link to Cowboy Bebop Media information on the main page with subsections that summarize of each and links to each detailed section in the media article. This could also be a place to put the DVD release details, since that information is lacking.
I would want at least a little bit explaining that the music in bebop is significant and stands on it's own but this could be used to collect and condense the detail that doesn't necessarily need to be on the main article, or doesn't have enough substance to make up an article of it's own (ie. the manga).Hewinsj 19:37, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Yusaku Matsuda

I noticed someone wanted citation on the comparison of Spike to Japanese actor Yusaku Matsuda. I distinctly recall that was stated on the Knockin' on Heaven's Door DVD, so I mentioned this and removed the tag. Piedmon Sama 01:57, 4 April 2007

If you can find where they state it in the DVD you can use "cite episode" and list the time to show the spot in the audio commentary where it is mentioned. Hewinsj 07:00, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Jet Black's Origins

My fellow cowboys, I made an interesting discovery about Jet.

His design is too similar to Blacky (note the name) from War Of The Flying Saucers (Go Nagai's prototype of Grendizer) for it to be a coincidence.

Please verify my claims at: http://www.nagaifans.it/oav/uchuu_eban/profili/profili.htm

Scroll down to see Blacky's picture. Interesting tribute indeed.

Image:Http://www.nagaifans.it/oav/uchuu eban/profili/blackie.jpg —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.7.29.29 (talk) 16:44, 12 April 2007 (UTC).

Existentialism in Cowboy Bebop?

I'd really love to see a section discussing the existential themes and stylistic elements present in Cowboy Bebop. I think it would really improve the article, and is definitely a missing element currently, then we could legitimately add Category:Existentialism! :D --DragonGuyver 13:17, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Locations/planets in Bebop

I've been brainstorming descriptions of Cowboy Bebop locations:

  1. Venus, Arab-oriented (Everything on Venus is written in Arabic script), dangerous atmosphere/air and desc. of plants and "snowflakes"
  2. Ganymede
  3. Europa, Desert, wars (vicious and Gren)
  4. Mars, Japanese-Oriented
  5. Earth
  6. The no-man's-land Chessmaster Hex lived in
  7. Callisto, Jupiter Jazz episode, no women, cold, Russian-ish society

etc. Wrad 00:26, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Influences - Pierrot le Fou

The only influence mentioned for this episode title is the film of the same name. As a former music student, however, I immediately noticed the musical reference to Schoenberg's Pierrot Lunaire, a song cycle in which the protagonist is both a hero and a fool. Granted, he is a villain and a fool in the CB episode, but the parallels are still there. The musical style for the episode is thoroughly modern, yet not quite purely chromatic or serial--just the same as Schoenberg's piece. I think it is a connection that deserves exploration and inclusion. Thoughts? Postmodern Beatnik 18:21, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

If someone else thought up of this and posted it on the web, be my guest. We had a super-long influences list that got gutted because there were no citations. — Edward Z. Yang(Talk) 19:50, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
I'll try and find something. For now it's just something that seems pretty obvious to me. But we wouldn't want to go violating WP:NOR, WP:RS, or WP:V. I'll make the edit as soon as I find something reliable. Thanks for the response. Postmodern Beatnik 06:29, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Seinen?

This paragraph is way too speculative:

There are rumors that the network purposely tried to "sabotage" the series (perhaps due to the climate in the aftermath of Evangelion), but there is evidence to suggest the time slot after April 23 was already booked, leaving little room for the new series. In fact, the episode number XX is said to have been protested by staff for the treatment of the show.

And do tell me how Cowboy Beebop can be a seinen when it was published in Asuka in Japan? ^^;;;Ikkokukan 09:42, 30 May 2007 (UTC)