Talk:Coventry

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Coventry article.
Article policies
Coventry is included in the 2007 Wikipedia for Schools, or is a candidate for inclusion in future versions. Please maintain high quality standards, and make an extra effort to include free images, because non-free images cannot be used on the CDs.
This article is within the scope of the following WikiProjects:

Contents

[edit] Coventry bombing

I thought the reason Hitler picked Coventry to bomb was that he suspected that his cipher was being broken, so he chose a militarily unexpected place to attack, so that if the Brits defended it, the Germans would know that the Brits broke the cipher. -phma

I didn't know that. I read that they had broken the cipher, but deliberately let Coventry be bombed. -- Tarquin 16:34 Apr 12, 2003 (UTC)

The myth that Coventry was sacrificed in a conspiracy to protect the Enigma information has been long laid to rest. Quite simply, it is untrue. See John Ray's The Night Blitz (Arms and Armour, 1996) for a sober analysis of events. Prune 21:28, 30 Nov 2003 (UTC)

There should be a concise statement refuting the widespread idea that Coventry was deliberately sacrificed. I'd add it myself, but I don't know the facts. (In fact, that's why I came here in the first place.) — Jeff Q 00:29, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I thought it was Dresden that was bombed in retalliation by Churchill, not Hamburg?

Phillip Knightly wrote: "Coventry was actually a legitimate military target, one of the keys to the British war effort" containing such plants as the Standard Motor Co., the British Piston Ring Co., and Kaimler motor works and Alvis aero-engine factory. Coventry was well known for being a producer of tanks and armoured cars.

I first heard about the cipher/Coventry link in an episode of "Babylon 5". Whether it's a legend or the truth, here's how I understand it: the British had broken the German code, but it was of strategic importance that the Germans not know, at least for a time; thus, although they knew Coventry was to be bombed, if they made preparations to evacuate the city or relocate critical mobile infrastructure, the Germans would be tipped off, and change the Enigma code to something else. I think Captain Sheridan faced a similar problem of tipping his hand. GBC 16:36, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Daimler's Radford factory after the Blitz

[edit] Elephant and Castle

Can somebody write something as to why this is on the crest? (I personally do not know and would like to.) It is the most striking feature of the crest, much more so than the "Black Prince Cat" that is referred to. It is also the symbol of CCFC, is it not (an elephant standing on a football)? --Farmhouse121 04:50, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

The trouble is that as far as I am aware the reason for this is actually unknown, although there is a hypothesis that it might be a corruption of "the Infanta of Castille". PatGallacher 18:41, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New format

Well I must say, this new format is a complete mess, what was wrong with the layout before. The flow of the article has been completely destroyed G-Man 00:06, 22 Dec 2003 (UTC)

That looks better G-Man 00:38, 22 Dec 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Dodgy phrasing

"Dresden, which was destroyed just after the end of the German Wehrmacht defend. 140.000 civilists died in Feb. 1945. by RAF - bombing. The partnership is deeply supported by the populace in both cities; representatively for the entire English people...."

What the heck?! I'd rephrase but I don't know what you're trying to say. May I politely suggest you learn to use English properly first before you contribute to en.wikipedia? pomegranate 01:25, Nov 13, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Stivichall

The Suburbs of Coventry section of the article describes the suburb as Styvechale (also spelled Stivichall). Every map I have spells it Stivichall, and googling gives 12,900 hits for Stivichall and only 746 for Styvechale. Unless someone can substantiate the superiority of the latter, then I propose the text be altered to Stivichall (also spelled Styvechale). DWaterson 20:40, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Definitely known as Stivichall (and source of spelling corrections requested by Coventry school teachers during the 80's). --Farmhouse121 04:42, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

I lived in Baginton Road for 23 years, and along with our neighbours referred to the district as Styvechale. Very confusing for me as a youngster attending Stivichall infant/junior school! Red Sunset 23:34, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Styvechale is its Domesday book name--it's the archaic form; I thought I remembered its spelling being preserved in some place names about the area--The Styvechale pub' for example, althouh isn't there a school or church with that spelling too? My opinion is it's certainly worth leaving the archaic spelling in there (in brackets) as it's not only a great guide to the actual pronunciation people use but should also facilitate search engine hits for non-locals doing on-line research from old resources (E.g. family historians with Parish Council records from the C17th), but the modern spelling from the OS maps is what the article should employ.

Graphitus amnemnos 18:27, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Henry VII

About miracle plays being seen by "Henry VII in 1584."

I'm not sure what the source is for this, but it's misquoted or wrong: Henry VII died in 1509, Henry VIII died in 1547, and we haven't had a Henry since.

Most likely it was Henry VII, but not in 1584, or even 1484. It's just possible that it was 1485, which is a potential typo, provided it was after August.

203.97.107.139 10:50, 13 April 2006 (UTC)Cathi

[edit] The Peace Gardens

I can't find a mention anywhere of the peace gardens situated in each of Coventry's wards. I think it's well worth adding since each is linked to one of the twin cities. If anyone has the time to find out where each one is and which cities they are representing it would be good. I know they also contain 3 trees but right now I can't think what 3 they are.

It could also be a good way to clean up the suburbs section using the wards instead and incorporate the twin cities and peace gardens. Especuially with the local elections coming.

What does everybody think? - MrJ 14:03, Apr 23, 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Celtic Origins?

You've listed the Cofa's tree story, but maybe you could add the possible celtic origin of the name Coventry. "Cof yn Tre" (Pronounced identically) is welsh for "Memoriam in the town/settlement" http://www.coventry.historians.co.uk/brum.htm gives more information --Throquzum 05:05, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Both of these stories were discussed as having equal merit when I was studying it (at St. Bartholmew's Junior School in Ernsford Grange). --Farmhouse121 04:46, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Union Theological Seminary

I don't know what the stuff below was doing at the top of the Coventry page. There doesn't seem to be any connection. So, I moved it here.

Union Theological Seminary may refer to:

   * Union Theological Seminary in the City of New York, an ecumenical seminary affiliated with Columbia University in Manhattan
   * Union Theological Seminary & Presbyterian School of Christian Education, in Richmond, Virginia


Neither of these two "Union" seminaries should be confused with the following seminaries:

   * United Theological Seminary of the Twin Cities in New Brighton, Minnesota, affiliated with the United Church of Christ
   * United Theological Seminary in Dayton, Ohio, affiliated with the United Methodist Church
   * Unification Theological Seminary in Barrytown, New York, affiliated with the Unification Church

[edit] Changed distances

I'm not sure why some of the distances to local towns have been increased by 1 mile/2km each - maybe somone could explain this? Inner Earth 16:35, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

The distance from Coventry to Church Lawford is 7 miles and from Church Lawford to Rugby is five miles (I know that from many busses taken in my youth), so this distance at least is correct. --Farmhouse121 04:38, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lady Godiva

In all my time growing up in Coventry I never heard anybody suggest that she was "bareback" rather than "naked." Why would Peeping Tom want to look at somebody riding bareback (that's pretty common) and why would the rest of the residents shun such a view of support? Can whoever wrote this cite it please?

The Lady Godiva statue used to stand in the open on center of the roundabout that was placed between the start of the short branch to the precinct and the edge of the Cathedral Close (near Holy Trinity). I added a comment to this effect and also about the bust of Peeping Tom from one of the bridges over the precinct (I don't know if that is still there, since I now live in New Jersey, but I think it's notable). --Farmhouse121 04:38, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] History section

The history section on this article is getting a bit long. we already have a detailed history article at History of Coventry where much of this should go. I dont have time to do this myself at the mo however. It would be nice if someone could merge this into the history artcle. Leaving just a summary on the main page. G-Man * 15:18, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

besides it says a play was performed in front of Henry VII in 1584. He had been dead a rather long time by this point so probably didn't get into the action as much as he shold have done if he had still been alive. The coventry plays ceased being performed during the reformation so this must have been a special one off performed specially for the dead king.

[edit] Shakeel Goulthorp

Shakeel Goulthorp is also listed on the Bedworth page, so its a bit moot if he should be in Cov, but he is pretty well known so I'm reverting the recent deletion of him. Just saying "who" isn't sufficient explanation for the deletion. MarkThomas 10:36, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Suburbs

I think that rather than just a list it may be better to get one of those pink maps showing the different areas, each marked with a number which can then go against the entry in the list. This would give readers some sort of geography of the areas.

To be even more adventurous we could get a set of maps of the city, one for each area with it marked in red, for dropping on to the different suburb pages.

Keith D 15:59, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

I have thought that a map of the suburbs would be useful, but I do not known how to make one. It there another town that has used this method for suburbs? Snowman 21:38, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

I too do not know how to get the maps. Have a look at Nottingham for an example. Keith D 21:59, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cathedral Ruins picture

I was in Coventry for a business meeting on Monday, and took a camera as I wanted to take a picture of the old Cathedral for my own collection. It was raining a bit, so I nearly didn't bother. When I got there, there was a beautifully positioned rainbow, so I'm glad that I did - proof there is a God? I've uploaded to Commons here: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Coventry_Cathedral_Ruins_with_Rainbow.jpg The equivalent picture from G-Man is perfectly adequate IMO, but if other editors prefer my picture, I will leave it for them to make the change. --Walker44 19:18, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Your picture with the rainbow is very nice. I think it should be used. Snowman 21:35, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
It's a bit dark. G-Man * 14:28, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Twin cities

Don't understand the statement "It started after World War II when Coventry twinned with Dresden as an act of peace". Yet in the table it states: Dresden, Germany 1959! I also note that the earliest twinning date for a city is Volgograd, Russia 1944 followed by Kiel, Germany 1947 and Lidice, Czech Republic 1947. So, someone care to track down the facts and/or correct the text? RCEberwein | Talk 02:59, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

When I added the dates in the table I took the information from this website: http://www.coventry.gov.uk/ccm/navigation/community-and-living/international-links/twin-cities/ MrJ 22:22, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "The Quiet City"

I had heard from various sources that being "sent to Coventry" was more about getting the silent treatment from colleagues, etc. as a form of punishment for a period of time, particularly in the British army among officers. This is because, or so it is said, the people of Coventry are unusually quiet. Perhaps this is because of its monastic beginnings followed further by its industrial/working-class nature? Or do I have this impression all wrong? Does anyone care to comment, especially anyone who lives there?

Send to Coventry discusses this. DWaterson 20:10, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ska - factual errors

I hate to say this. I really do. But The Selecter are from Derby. Pauline still lives there but is currently involved in a sometime collaboration with ex-Special Terry Hall and Stiff Little Fingers' Jez. They've not released anything I know of yet but have fun jamming classic covers I gather. They have a name but it escapes me. The Coventry connection is most likely to have been from any time they spent signed to The Specials' Two-Tone label.

I note nobody has bothered putting The Primitives in yet either.

Oops, a slightly more careful re-reading of the article confirms The Primitives are indeed in there, as are Fun Boy Three. I don't see any point in deleting this as it's a discussion page. I was wrong. I know this. I'm not convinced anybody's read the page since but...

...IIRC though, Jerry Dammers' hit "Free Nelson Mandela" was released as being by "Special AKA" rather than as by The Specials. Whether there was any functional difference in the line-up I couldn't say as I wasn't that old at the time and remember the hits I loved rather than the pretentious journalism that in-filled on the background. For one thing, Special AKA featured a female vocal chorus, if not the entirety of the vocals in female voices, and as such it seems unlikely it was simply "The Specials" doing a NESMAD.

I also heard anecdotally that the now somewhat slimmer Buster Bloodvessel used to drink in The Cottage at Earlsdon - way before my time living in Cov this was - but whether or not Bad Manners the band is notable for being made entirely of Cov Kids is another matter.

Graphitus amnemnos 15:01, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Frank Whittle - really a Cov kid?

From the number of roads there named after him I thought Frank Whittle was from Derby originally too, rather than from Cov.

OTOH, Roycies (Rolls Royce Aerospace) still do make jet engines in Derby, so maybe he just developed the design there? Anyone authoritative can comment?

I don't use verification tags as my experience is that whoever wrote the original article tends to view them rather more as an act of ignorant vandalism--with the end result they just get removed in a huff rather than trigger any actual verification activities. I've not contributed to the Cov page before today so that's NOT aimed at anyone here who's contributed.

But, yeah, they tend to get removed a few times and I just end up writing something in the discussion page to the effect that it's me that put them there and, yes, actually they do need verifying, so I figure just doing so in the first place both saves time and maximises goodwill.

Graphitus amnemnos 15:01, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Singer works

I know, there were countless light engineering firms in Cov at times, but I didn't spot any mention of Singer in the article. They have the advantage other Coventry-founded firms like Humber don't in that people do still have Singer machines kicking around their homes and attics. I don't know enough to contribute on them. But surely they're high-profile enough to be in there?

Graphitus amnemnos 18:15, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lady Godiva

There is a statue of her in the city centre, which used to stand out in the open but is now somewhat unthoughtfully situated under the much-maligned Cathedral Lanes shopping centre canopy (see right).

This doesnt seem very NPOV to me. Also on the subject of Lody Godiva, I've always been told that riding naked actually meant riding without any jewellery, not naked of clothes, and not bareback. Anyone else heard this? Any sources? Jamierc 13:09, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Closest cities, towns and villages section

This article has a lengthy section on "Closest cities, towns and villages". This seems to me to be completely pointless and adds nothing of value to the article, which is about Coventry itself, not other places near Coventry. Any objections to its deletion? Cheers, DWaterson 23:19, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

It is a part of the standard on writing about a place, however it truly needs to be limited to the immediate vicinity. HTH Kbthompson 23:23, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Education section image

Having an image in most sections really does improve the quality of the article. Therefore, it would be best to have an image in the education section. What image would be best? Snowmanradio's removal of the image I placed in there was justified and I agree with them in hindsight. Would Image:Covunilogo1.PNG be more appropriate? I just don't want to add images and see them get removed straight after. Thanks - Erebus555 12:49, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

The obvious candidates would be photographs of the frontages of Coventry University and/or Warwick University. Snowman 12:57, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

I will try to get a picture of the Godiva Festival (its in mid July) for the Arts and Culture section. Snowman 12:55, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Coventry City Centre

I have been wondering if there should be a separate page or a section on Coventry City Centre. I have several images (not yet uploaded to wiki commons) and plan to get more when I have the chance to get the photos. Snowman 12:55, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

I think that would be fine as long as there is a definite boundary for the city centre. There's a Manchester City Centre article so I'm sure a Coventry one would be fine! - Erebus555 13:03, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
I guess Coventry City Centre means different things to different people. Does anyone know if there is an official deffinition? Snowman 15:48, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
My understanding is that it is the area within the ring road but the best way is to have a look at the Coventry City Council website. It would be more difficult to work out the city centre of Birmingham because many people still believe it is the area within the inner ring road when all of a sudden the council starts saying it's the area up to the middle ring road. This means that you could get varying ideas of what the city centre for Coventry actually is. If the actual boundaries of the city centre are disputed, then it may be wise to include that in the article itself. - Erebus555 15:58, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
Coventry City Council's Unitary Development Plan provides a partial definition of the "city centre" for planning purposes here:

11.3 The definition of the City Centre has changed since the 1993 Plan and the distinction between the “Central Area” and the “City Centre” has also been abandoned. The area has been extended to include the housing developments at Drapers Fields and potential development sites around the Coventry & Warwickshire Hospital but reduced around Lower Ford Street and by the removal of the entire Far Gosford Street area which is now referred to in the Shopping Chapter.

More useful is the city centre inset of the proposals map, which shows a clear boundary line around the city centre area, and showing that it extends beyond the ring road - to the south as far as the railway line, and irregularly to the north. The map is online here here. Cheers, DWaterson 17:19, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
I think most people would think of the inner ring road as the limmits of Coventry City Centre, but other might think it was just the shopping centres, or CV1. Perhaps common beliefs could be included in the introduction. Your map that you linked too is a good find. Snowman 14:08, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Suburb bounderies

I am often find it difficult to find out the exact bounderies of various districts in Coventry. At the present time, I am unsure about the boundaries of Pinley, Stoke, Gosford Green, Gosford, Lower Stoke, Stoke Aldermore and Stoke Green, Green Lane, Charterhouse Fields. I have some photographs of the Gosford area that could be included on relevant pages, but I would appreciate some help in making sense of the internal bounderies in Coventry. Snowman 14:20, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

That tends to be the problem with suburbs. They do not actually have defined boundaries. The boundaries are marked by roads some times though it is typical for the areas to just blend into eachother. You can only really find the boundary of somewhere if it is a council ward, I'm afraid. But to get an idea of the locations and general jigsaw, it might be wise to look at an A-Z map or an Ordnance Survey map (though not at full zoom as it tends to focus on buildings more than boundaries). - Erebus555 15:24, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
Indeed, suburbs rarely have formally defined boundaries. Often they have a recognisable centre - say a church or parade of shops - but beyond that residential areas tend to merge. As Erebus555 says, if there is a Ward with the same name, then that can often be useful - but then again, just as often, ward boundaries can be drawn arbitrarily and split areas with a common identity and heritage, or combine areas without any similarity. Because the identity of suburban areas is often dependent on heritage and 'local knowledge' they can be tricky to deal with in a suitably enyclopaedic manner. Cheers, DWaterson 20:14, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Whittle Arch photo in article - looks fake

Anyone notice anything ... peculiar about the Whittle Arch photo in the article? I've never seen or heard of it before, but seeing that photo for the first time, it looks almost like bad CGI! Surely that can't be real... do the arches really tower over the entire city like that?? What an eyesore. In the photo they appear to be taller than almost everything in town. Davez621 16:24, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

To me, the photo looks entirely real. I think it must be the angle from which the photo was taken that gives the impression that it towers over the city. The arches are not really as big as they may look in the picture. - Erebus555 16:35, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
I have just linked a photo that is not so near the structure. Snowman 18:29, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
Heh. They're certainly real, and very lovely they are too! Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry 02:53, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikiproject Coventry

It might be worthwhile starting a project to improve the pages on Coventry. Anyone can express an interest at: Wikipedia:WikiProject_Council/Proposals#Coventry. Snowman (talk) 11:09, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

A few more interested people needed to start the Coventry wikiproject. Snowman (talk) 12:30, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
With all the interest shown the project is started on 26 February 2008 at Wikipedia:WikiProject Coventry. Snowman (talk) 20:33, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Layout and contents

Just a note that the article would benefit greatly from looking at WP:UKCITIES and more closely aligning the layout and contents as recommended there. Manchester (also a city and metropolitan borough) achieved FA using this, whilst there are several other FA and GAs (Glasgow for example) which also adopt this. Thought this might help the article along a little! -- Jza84 · (talk) 20:53, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Suburbs

The section on suburbs could probably be put on a page perhaps as a list. Snowman (talk) 01:52, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Declan Bennett

Okay, so there's a long list of famous people from Coventry that I've never heard of, yet Declan seems to be missing. He certainly is famous enough to be mentioned, because he even has his own page on Wikipedia (which says that he is from Coventry). But just for reference sake, Declan was a member of the boy band Point Break, currently performs as a singer/songwriter under both his own name and Sumladfromcov, worked as an actor on the West End, and has played Roger Davis in Rent both on the US Tour and currently on Broadway. Just thought that should be added. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.74.228.254 (talk) 19:54, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] New wikiproject

Wikipedia:WikiProject Coventry just got started today. The project page is new and basic. Snowman (talk) 20:34, 26 February 2008 (UTC)