Template talk:Country data France

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[edit] Royal France

The notion of a national flag in France seems to be unclear during the time before the Revolution. There are a number of flags that seem to be popular here on the 'pedia to represent the Kingdom of France (notably, in battle infoboxes). This entry is an attempt by me to categorize them:

Naval Ensign 1638-1790.[1]

Variant of the above with fleurs-de-lis.

The plain white ensign with the royal French greater arms. (Image lacks source and has a dubious copyright state.)

New version:

The fleurs-de-lis ensign with the royal French greater arms. (The image is from Flags of the World so it's probably not usable in large scale on the 'pedia.)

The France Modern banner introduced in 1365 by Charles V (this particular image is also the modern flag of Île-de-France.)

Unsourced fusion of the white ensign with the France Modern design.

--Himasaram 08:30, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

google first hit on "histoire drapeau France" [2](yes, not very reliable, but at least you'll understand. We'll see later if we need WP:V):

• Naval Ensign 1638-1790 AND 1814-1830, sometimes with golden fleurdelys ( or  ? We'd better use the first one, plain white...).

(Caption says : "Salute protocol was very strict — and battles got started because some foreigners refused to respect it : Any ship encounting one of his majesty's ship was expected to :

• take down his flag if flown on main mast, if not to take down his ensign
• take down mizzen sail
• go downwind)

• The old royal flag was with blue background
• Charles V introduced the modern banner () to honor the trinity. Yet, Charles VI still used the old one. And some of his successors used the white flag with fleur-de-lys. Quite unclear...
• This flag was used in 1638 - 1790 and 1814 - 1830 as the royal flag :

There are other flags in the page, referring to french Merchant Marine. If you need them thought, i can translate the information. NicDumZ ~ 14:43, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

OK, so you suggest using the plain white ensign to represent France during the period? There's only one problem with this flag, though, and that is that it's very similar to the white flag of truce and might be misinterpreted as such. BTW, this painting depicting a scene from the Siege of Yorktown clearly shows the French ensign as a plain white flag. --Himasaram 00:07, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

You know, I'm used to French bashing and I think I thought about that confusion long before you ;) . Yes, we should. Confusion maybe, but that was the Royal flag ! White, pure white was the color of the King. Not many children know about this old flag, but every French knows that our current flag represent the color of the King between blue and red, the colors of Paris, as Parisian wanted give less power to the King. NicDumZ ~ 06:49, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Ok, this is what I suggest then for Royalist France: (exact years in parentheses from [3] - I don't know if they are correct)

• 12th~13th century (1180 - 1364)
• 14th~16th century (1364 - 1638)
• 17th~18th century (1638 - 24 Oct 1790)
• Restauration (6 Apr 1814 - 13 Mar 1815; 8 Jul 1815 - 1 Aug 1830)

While the plain white flag might have been the norm during the 'Ancient Regime', the white fleur-de-lis flag was apparently favoured during the Bourbon Restoration.[4] --Himasaram 00:43, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't think the plain white flag should be used flags of the world says this flag[5] was the state flag from 1578-1791 --Barryob Vigeur de dessus 20:24, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

This is the royal banner, while the plain white one is the naval ensign. Neither are national flags in the modern sense, but the naval ensign represents the entire country better IMO. In any case, we need more reliable sources to back up either argument. --Himasaram 11:07, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

But the French King was the state hense why I think the royal banner is the most apporopriate flag and flags of the world lists it as such rather than a naval ensign. --Barryob Vigeur de dessus 18:17, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Regions etc

The are a lot of mistakes in the region flags. Or... maybe not. The problem is that there are for every region, a flag, and a new modern "logo" created by the conseil general. For example, fr:Rhône-Alpes has both. The question is : Should we use the flag, or the modern logo ? I say we should use the old flag...

In that point of view, a lot of things have to be corrected. I think that most of the flags can be imported through commons from the Fr.WP . If not, http://perso.orange.fr/martine.lauwers/drapeauxmap.html#Drapeaux has most of the flags, they will need to be re-created/I may ask the author for her permission. NicDumZ ~ 06:35, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

All of those flags are from Commons. If you think there are mistakes, please comment on the talk page for the specific template(s) instead of here. My intent was merely to list them here for documentation purposes, not to make this a discussion page for all of them. Thanks, Andrwsc 06:50, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I see what you mean. I have updated most of them. Again, if you think there are any mistakes, please comment on the respective template pages. Thanks, Andrwsc 07:16, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wrong flag

Hello. The flag of the Kingdom of France under the House of Bourbon (until 1789 and between 1814/15 and 1830) was the drapeau blanc , not the lily banner or (see english, french, german, etc. articles about the Flag of France), so could someone change the template France/restauration please? Thank you. Louis88 (talk) 11:45, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

And I never have seen any evidence for , I don't think that this flag ever existed... Louis88 (talk) 15:37, 18 April 2008 (UTC)