Template talk:Countries of Central Asia

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[edit] Mongolia

Dear everyone (real or sock-puppetry) involved in the inclusion-of-Mongolia skirmish,

Putting Mongolia in Central Asia seems plausible. Putting it in East Asia seems plausible as well. So why not put it in both? -- Kowey 17:35, 11 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Good call. --Cantus 21:44, 11 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I am readding Mongolia to the page, as no one on this Talk page seems to object to it. --Lowellian 00:04, May 4, 2004 (UTC)

It looks like it is in central Asia to me. --mav 01:27, 4 May 2004 (UTC)

Mav, give me the name of an encyclopedia, almanac, or any other sourcebook that does not stick with the five former Soviet republics in Central Asia in its organizational templates? 172 01:56, 4 May 2004 (UTC)

User:Lowellian says:

Just one encyclopedia? I'll give you several instead:

  • From Encyclopedia Americana. Danbury, CT: Grolier, 1997:
    • vol. 19, page 356: "MONGOLIA is a geographical region of east central Asia..."
    • vol. 19, page 358: "The Mongolian People's Republic (MPR), formerly Outer Mongolia, is an independent country located in east central Asia..."
  • From The New Encyclopaedia Britannica. Chicago: Encyclopaedia Britannica, 1994:
    • vol. 8, page 255: "Mongolia, Khalkha Mongolian MONGOL ULS, also called OUTER MONGOLIA, landlocked country that is located between Russia to the north and China to the south, in north-central Asia."
  • From Munro, David. The Oxford Dictionary of the World. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1995:
    • page 412: "Mongolia official name The State of Mongolia a large and sparsely populated country of eastern Asia."
  • From Webster's New Geographical Dictionary. Springfield, MA: Merriam-Webster, 1988:
    • page 781: "Mongolia 1 Region, E cen. Asia..."
    • page 781: "Mongolian People's Republic or frequently Mongolia also Outer Mongolia. Republic, E cen. Asia..."
  • From Countries and Their Cultures. New York: Macmillan Reference-Gale, 2001:
    • page 1498: "Mongolia is a large landlocked country in Central Asia..."
  • From Room, Adrian. Placenames of the World: Origins and Meanings. Jefferson, NC: McFarland, 1997:
    • page 240: "Mongolia. Republic, east central Asia."
  • From Cohen, Saul B., ed. The Columbia Gazeteer of the World. New York: Columbia University Press, 1998:
    • page 2023: "Mongolia, republic (604,000 sq mi/1,566,500 sq km; 1989 pop. 2,043,000), NE central Asia..."
  • From Levinson, David, and Karen Christensen, ed. Encyclopedia of Modern Asia. New York: Thomson-Gale, 2002:
    • vol. 4, page 164: "Mongolia refers to the region in east central Asia..."

People seem to be confusing Central Asia with the Central Asian Republics; they are not the same thing! Central Asia is a wider geographic area than the Soviet designation of the Central Asian Republics. Nor is Central Asia equivalent to the Central Asian States, which is an economic union.

The fact is that terms like Central Asia and East Asia are vague. Different sources will give different definitions of the regions. The Encyclopedia Americana (full citation given above) says it well on vol. 2, page 440:

"In addition to terms applied to all of Asia are names designating greater or lesser portions of the continent. [There is some discussion of the vagueness of the terms Far East, Far West, Near East, and Middle East.] Other expressions, such as the Levant (the lands of the eastern Mediterranean), Further India (Southeast Asia), and Central Asia (Tibet, the Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region of China, and portions of Mongolia and southern Soviet Asia) also appear in scholarly and popular literature and speech. They have little geographical precision...Inner Asia (sometimes called Central Asia) is a somewhat imprecise region comprising the western and northern borderlands of China—roughly Tibet, Turkestan, Mongolia, Manchuria, and the southeast corner of Siberia..."

Wikipedia would be POV if it were to refuse to acknowledge as part of a region a country that is considered by some sources to be part of that region. Mongolia should be included in both Template:Central Asia and Template:East Asia. --Lowellian 01:19, May 5, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Map of Central Asia

Map of Central Asia courtesy of World Book 2002:

Image:CentralAsiaWB.png

--Cantus 03:18, 5 May 2004 (UTC)

[edit] "Stupid war"

This edit war is stupid. People should have better things to do than screw up what amounts to a minor Wikipedia page by means of a revert war. Grow up already! (and eat your vitamins, and brush your teeth, and clean the room) Rickyrab 20:01, 5 May 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Support for Mongolia

I request Cantus to summarize his arguments (and evidence) here (which he seems finally to start), and I shall support him. -- Kaihsu 20:07, 2004 May 5 (UTC)

Actually, mav has already done it above. I will revert to a reasonable version that includes Mongolia.
I think it was Lowellian that provided the bulk of the evidence above. I have protected the page to a version that includes no footnotes, and includes Mongolia but not China. Everybody, take a break for 20 minutes. I suggest that if any admin has been directly involved in this edit war, they should not use their powers to revert. A sysop may wish to unprotect at 23:00 UTC. -- Kaihsu 20:15, 2004 May 5 (UTC)

These mediawiki things are perfectly useless unless they are mutually exclusive. Unless we want to put {{msg:East Asia}} and {{msg:Central Asia}} on the Mongolia page, which would be deeply unwieldy, we need to decide for it to be one or the other. john 20:19, 5 May 2004 (UTC)


No, they do not have to be mutually exclusive -- that is not how life is. Take Russia, for example. -- Kaihsu 20:19, 2004 May 5 (UTC)

Russia only has a {{msg:Europe}} at the bottom. No {{msg:Asia}}. And what on earth does this have to do with life? This has to do with making useful tables to put at the bottom of articles. Again, what is the point of having Mongolia on this list, if this list is not to be found on the Mongolia page? john 20:27, 5 May 2004 (UTC)

What is wrong with having both {{msg:East Asia}} and {{msg:Central Asia}} on the Mongolia page? It's not like that would take up more space than the tables at the bottom of such pages as Russia or Belgium. --Lowellian 01:12, May 6, 2004 (UTC)

Kaihsu, you cannot use page protections to enforce your favored versions. You had no more right to do so than I did, so I'm lifting the protection. 172 20:37, 5 May 2004 (UTC)

All right. But please review the large bulk of evidence above. I would appreciate that you withdraw your allegation on multiple pages at Wikipedia:Requests for review of admin actions, though. -- Kaihsu 20:43, 2004 May 5 (UTC)

[edit] Adding the Republic of China (Taiwan)

Anyone object--IAMTHEEGGMAN 21:40, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Taiwan seems more East Asia than Central Asia...?  Regards, David Kernow (talk) 03:33, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Standardization suggestion - please contribute!

A suggestion for a standard approach to the naming, titling and sections of this and similar templates has been made here – please visit and share your thoughts!  Thanks, David Kernow (talk) 03:27, 11 January 2007 (UTC)