Talk:Cousin

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[edit] aunt

Why is "aunt" redirected to cousin? That makes no sense; if there's a cousin page then why isn't there a aunt page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.75.208.46 (talk) 02:59, 26 January 2008 (UTC) -->

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[edit] TOTALLY WRONG

It takes no consideration to generations... The cousin of my grandfather should, as such, be my granduncle of some sort, just like his brothers are my granduncles and not something like my cousins... I'ts wrong even to English-speaking people —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.107.152.72 (talk • contribs) 00:14, 24 October 2005

It is the anonymous ghost who is wrong: the (first?) cousin of his grandfather is his first cousin twice removed. Languiages are not entirely logical, note the difference between Englich and Russian that I previously noted. Would the ghost argue that the Russian form, being more logical, should be used? Too Old 18:16, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
Well, I'm no ghost, yet, but... Why do you claim that the russian system is more logical? Adding a word (cousin) to language instead of using a pre-existing word modified by context ("secondary brother") is not being more logical... It's just being simpler on the short-term scale and more complex on the long-term scale, said below is the idea that a grand-daughter would be a cousin of a higher degree... Languages are illogical? Now and then... Etymology coupled with knowledge of historic semiology should proof that very logical reasons exist for words to mean what they mean and whimsical variations are so only on the surface... I know my grandfather's cousin is not my cousin twice removed at all... That would imply my granduncle is not so indeed but my cousin once removed... Better said, he would be my granduncle once removed... Two people who are related to oneself's in two different ways cannot be the same thing to one... The father of my father and the father of my mother are both my grandfathers 'cause they are both related to me in a same way (from a broad viewpoint)... However one is maternal and the other is paternal 'cause even that way is subject to be seen (from closer inspection) as two different ways... However, it's up to English speakers in total whether to make this understanding methereologically accurate or not... I mean... Lingüists (and those who are not so but, like me in this situation, speak about language) can be meteorologists to language, that is, they can describe it, but they can't prescribe it, just as metereologists cannot prescribe weather... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.106.108.213 (talk • contribs) 19:35, 26 October 2005

This chart is too ethno-centric, using the common English terms. Other languages use different terms. One that I am slightly familiar with is Russian, in which what we would call a first cousin is called a secondary brother or secondary sister, and similarly for "cousins" further removed. Note that the English term is gender neutral, but the Russian one is not.

It would be better titled "English Cousin Chart" Too Old June 29, 2005 04:39 (UTC)

This is EN.wikipedia. The articles here are in English, for English-speaking users. There are other wikipedias for other languages, so there should be no need to specify that this chart is in English terms. It's not ethno-centric; it's ethno-specific, as it is meant to be. Kafziel

I agree with Kafziel, though mention that this chart uses English terms would be a good addition to the article. Unfortunately, there is no separate article in WP on kinship terminology (find in as a subsection of Family) that the article could point to. -Acjelen 19:01, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
To repeat my deleted comment: I disagree with the last two people. WN.wik is for people READING English but not just about US/GB culture. It should be pointed out (with a link to appropriate material) that this vocabulary AND GROUPING are just for one system. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.225.32.196 (talk • contribs) 21:48, 11 October 2005
I disagree. By Russian (s)he means that it is a seperate way of doing things, but is still english/american. Just because something descended from Russia doesnt mean it isn't commonly used. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.58.173.10 (talk • contribs) 18:00, 13 March 2006
  • Forgive me if I have not made sense of the previous messages, but I'd like to add my two pence: If there is another way of doing it--eg: in Russia--then that should also be explained here in English for the benefit of anyone who doesn't speak Russian. Beeurd (talk) 00:50, 4 March 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Great Article

I can't understand the negativity here. I came here looking to understand the difference between being a removed cousin, a double cousin etc. This article was perfect. The fact that it links everything to a common parent made everything go click. I'd remove the expert tag too. Who every did this knew his/her stuff. Now I am not so naive to assume this will mean anything to anyone but I would just point out that different people parse information differently and that less pedanticism would be a good thing as it seems really odd to have something as innocuous as "cousin" almost start an edit war...


Here's a me too. Brilliant article. I'd never been able to get my head around cousin relationships, especially the non-symmetricality of removal. Now I know for sure that it is unsymmetrical, and I generally understand the whole concept. I enjoyed the mathematical formulae. I can't believe anyone found this hard to read, I can only assume they aren't too bright... Emmag1959 (talk) 10:34, 19 March 2008 (UTC)


[edit] cousin/sibling diference's

What is the difference between cousins and siblings. For exaple if you are an only child meaning that you have no brothers or sisters but if you have a lot of cousins in your family.would that really mean your an only child or not. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.80.106.105 (talk) 22:58, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

You are unable to distinguish between cousins and siblings? Are you from Alabama? Joking apart th only child rule applies to sblings although one might not be so ready to define them as such (other than genetically) if they gre up in the same household as their cousins.Dainamo (talk) 13:21, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Two different people that share the same GREAT GRAND MOTHER BUT TWO DIFFERENT GREAT GRAND FATHERS

what do call two different people that share the same great grand mother but two different great grand fathers.For example if your grand-mother has a half-sister because they both sahre the same mother but two different fathers and your half-grandaunt has a grand child of her own what would be the relation be between me and my half-grandaunts grandchild. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.80.106.105 (talk) 00:51, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Think about it: the common ancestors are the great grand parents the relationship is that of Second coisins. As one of the great grand parents is different for each personl then they are HALF SECOND COUSINS. I would imaginf if they shared any other (single) great grandparent through a different line, this would make then full SECOND COUSINS. Dainamo (talk) 13:14, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
Technically, if they were half-second cousins twice then they would be double half second cousins. Cousin terminology is a description of relationships and does not amalgamate them. Charles 18:22, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

So basicly if two of these half-2nd cousins have a child then the two children would be half-3rd cousins and so on right.

Yes, they would be (if you don't mean them having a child together though, although that does happen). Charles 01:05, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Children of third cousins and age difference and parents cousins referd to as aunts and uncles

If two people meaning a brother and sister who have a third cousin and there third cousin has a child what would be the relation between these three people.If a women has two third cousins who are 11 and 8 years old and this women has a child whose 15 years old would the age difference matter between these three children or not. If your mother has two cousins would your mothers cousins be your anunts and uncles or not. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.80.106.105 (talk) 01:01, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

First, if a brother and a sister have a third cousin with a child, that child is a third cousin once removed to the brother and the sister and vice versa. Second, the age is irrelevant. My mother has first cousins who are younger than I am but that doesn't change my genetic relationship to them. Thirdly, if you mean your mother's first cousins, they would be your first cousins once removed, not your aunts or uncles. All of this is in the article. Charles 01:05, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

so basicly the 11 year old brother and 8 year old sisters third cousin once removed would not be considerd as there nephew or neice even though the relation between these three children are similar to an aunt/uncle/nephew/neice relationship. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.80.106.105 (talk) 10:49, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

The only way somebody is your nephew or niece, is if they're your sibling's children. GoodDay (talk) 23:51, 1 March 2008 (UTC)W

[edit] Cousin/sibling ages

Can a cousin be the same age as you. --67.80.106.105 (talk) 20:53, 22 March 2008 (UTC)C.k.

YES a cousin can be the same age as you, simple as that. Charles 04:33, 5 March 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Am I reading this right?

In the family tree section diagram, why does the phrase first cousin twice removed refer to both:

  • my great-grandmother's nephew, and
  • my first cousin's grandson?

I would have thought they would be given different titles as they're so far apart on the family tree.--ML5 (talk) 15:58, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

That's not their relationship to each other, it's their relationship to the "me" box and both are first cousins twice removed to the "me" box. In each case, both have a most recent common ancestor with "me" in which one party is two generations away and the other is four generations away. Charles 18:58, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

You're reading it right, it's exactly the same relation, just in opposite directions. Consider the following family tree:

        A
       / \
      B   C    (B&C are siblings)
     /     \
    D       E  (D&E are first cousins)
   / \
  F   G    (F&G are siblings)
 /     \
H       I  (H&I are first cousins) 
         \
          J
           \
            K

You are H.

No sexism here, but I'll use all females for consistency, except as necessary to comport with the example given.

First, the great-grandmother's nephew (who happens to be E). F is your mother; D is your grandmother; B is your G-G-mother; A is your G-G-G-mother (and your G-G-mother's mother); C is your G-G-G-mother's daughter and your G-G-mother's sister; E is your G-G-G-mother's grandson and your G-G-mother's nephew.

Look at the relationship from E to D: first cousins. It follows that from E to F is first cousin, once removed; and from E to H (that's you, remember) is first cousin, twice removed.

So there you have that one: from E to H, and so from H to E, and so from you to your great-grandmother's nephew is first cousin, twice removed.

Now, for the other one, first cousin's grandson (K); I'm not going to trace out the whole thing again, but just note the path we already did from E to H: across the first-cousin line to D, and down two generations (two "removals") to H. Note that from H to K is the exact same path: across the first-cousin line to I, and down two generations to K.

Put another way, from E to H is up 2 levels to reach a common ancestor, and then down 4 levels to reach the target; likewise, from H to K is up 2 levels to reach a common ancestor, and then down 4 levels to reach the target.

Clear as mud? TJRC (talk) 19:09, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Brilliant! Very well explained. Thanks for taking the time to do a worked example. In fact, I think it's a good enough worked example to appear on the article's page. Also, with User:Charles and User:TJRC lurking, I think one of you should remove the {Expert-talk} flag.--ML5 (talk) 11:42, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Images and charts

A few of the images and charts in the article literally say the exact same things without presenting the information in any different way. For instance, the "canon law" image and the chart at the top. I suggest expanding the chart at the top, removing the canon law image and also moving the coloured chart down somewhere else if it is needed. Charles 12:13, 23 April 2008 (UTC)


[edit] First cousin in law

The page was missing First cousin in law but someone removed it. I don't care if you dont want it on here then fine but why did you remove it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.196.199.75 (talk) 02:24, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

A few reasons. First, its content is contested: see this edit. For that reason alone, you should discuss the proposed addition here, and get a consensus on the content. Also, with no offense intended, it's rather too informally written. That's not enough on its own to delete it (cleaning it up would be preferred), but since its content is contested, deletion until there's some basis for agreement is better. I actually found it too difficult to try to figure out what it's trying to say. In addition, in its most recent addition, it was placed right in the middle of another section, which misleadingly made it look like parts of that section were associated with this topic.
So, just discuss it here, get agreement on the content, and then, once having gotten that, re-add it in an appropriate place. If it's still too informally written, someone will fix it. TJRC (talk) 16:57, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fourth Cousin

Whats a fourth cousin ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.80.106.105 (talk) 20:52, 13 May 2008 (UTC)