Talk:Counter-Strike

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Archive of discussion prior to March 2006

Contents

[edit] Official Link

Would be nice to see a link to the official webpage for CS!

 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.185.193.116 (talk) 04:47, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.100.136.122 (talk) 19:43, 17 April 2007 (UTC).

I don't know if you've checked recently, but pretty much since Valve brought out Steam, there has no longer been an official "cs" website, it merely redirects to the steam store.
http://www.counter-strike.com/ still exists but I don't think it's official. Thepineapplehead 20:04, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mirroring

I have just expanded the criticisms section with a little on the history, reasons and ramifications of "mirroring". I really ought to have a source for the bit about how Gooseman preferred to model weapons in the left hand, but I'm afraid I read it in an interview about five years ago and I just remember him saying something to that effect, so I don't. I also added another counterargument to the thing about different guns of the same calibre doing different amounts of damage (differently powered cartridges). --YourMessageHere 00:54, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism and Poor Reverts

Could we please take a look at what we're reverting to, I've just reverted to a copy of the article from 11 March. There's been quite a lot of vandalism and then reverts to a vandalised version since then. Make sure you're not reverting to a vandalised version. - Hahnchen 06:24, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

I was wondering why people take off www.counter-strike.com from the links. Thanks --Marc 04:10, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

counter-strike.com is a website for selling Counter-Strike web servers. The official site was originally located at counter-strike.net, but has since been moved to http://storefront.steampowered.com/v2/index.php?area=game&AppId=240 (now a redirect there) —Last Avenue [talk | contributions] 05:39, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
someone should ban Abbynormal1, he keeps putting that site back on the article, I saw his talk page and he's had so many warnings and no one is taking the initiative. angers 23:15, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
I should be banned for adding Counter-Strike.com to the Counter-Strike wiki? Wow. I've not had "so many warnings" I've had one, and it was about an unrelated site. That dispute was resolved. I'm an active and thorough contributor, please explain more why I should be banned, bud. Let me add that I added the external link only after giving it lots of time under Pointless Links. See below. --Abbynormal1 04:46, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
someone has vandalized it< how do i report? or could someone else?
It's alright, some twunt replaced the whole thing with "this game rox!!!!" and a kind chappy (or chappess) reverted it to my original version. Pizza has added things since.

[edit] Pointless Links

I Have Deleted the "INTHEHOLE" link, this is not a big Community, a lot are bigger, this is just the owning trying to get attention to his/her site --The Itchy One 10:51, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

I almost reverted your addition of the Enemy Down league, since the consensus here is to remove any links not discussed in advance on this page. At first glance, it looks like a valid league, so I will defer to others who know the coomunity better. --Habap 12:30, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

As instructed below, I'm requesting a link to Counter-Strike.com be added to external links. They do sell servers (my clan has one through them), they also have a huge resource of community content. We use their forums, we use their maps sections, their strategy guides, their plugin guides, and countless other things I don't really need to list. Feel free to check it out for yourself.

FPS Banana sells Alienware computers and Samsung Mobile PC's. CS-Nation sells griffinrun.com Anyway, any argument that Counter-Strike.com is at least equal in relevent content to the others? Abbynormal1

So, if nobody disagrees with me, I'll be adding the link Wedneday, September 13th. Abbynormal1

I deleted it without checking here first. So, you can add the link back in if you'd like. But, consider that if counter-strike.com is in there, you should really add all of the major rental sites as well. There's a treasure trove of guides and troubleshooting information at http://rentals.nuclearfallout.net, for instance, and that's just one of many. Counter-strike.com is nothing particularly special -- it just has a nice domain name. -jw

Does the XcG clan and BigBudDen clan really belong on the community links section? These are clan sites, of which there are thousands. My opinion is that clan sites are not relevent for the external/community links section. Not sure though, feedback appreciated.

--Abbynormal1 03:11, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Correct, clan sites don't belong or else we have to list 10,000 of them. --Habap 14:44, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I removed the links to "Big Bud Den Community" "Team UFH" which are clan sites. --Abbynormal1 19:05, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cash for planting bomb

I have removed the part where it says that planting the bomb gives the player $1800, for that has been removed since v1.5.

When the round time expires without the bomb being successfully planted and detonating, the Counter-Terrorists win (Not applicable to Counter-Strike: Source, when the bomb is planted, the round time disappears)

That is false - since a steam update the round time disappears in CS 1.6, too.

[edit] Professional CS

This is somewhat unrelated to the Counter-Strike page, but I'm no Wikipedia expert. I just want to point out this site, Professional counter-strike. It really seems like a plain self-promotion page. Some valid tactics and tips. Other things there are plainly unconnected to anything besides the authors site. Anybody willing to clean it up? Wahming 02:33, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up, I will nominated the article for deletion. - RoyBoy 800 03:47, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] More Appropriate Bomb Defusal Picture

The current bomb plant picture is taken in Counter-Strike Source, I would think that a picture taken in Counter-Strike would be more appropriate. Credema 06:27, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Map types

I reduced the content of this section down to simply a link to Counter-Strike maps, and changed the name to "Maps". The list of maps really didn't serve a purpose in the main Counter-Strike article, as it was nothing but a bulleted list, took up space (the article was up to 38kb before I did this, and could still use a bit of whittling down), and wasn't particularly useful; not to mention that the "Commonly played unofficial maps" subsection was nothing but original research, and highly debatable original research at that (see the AfD for "Custom Counter-Strike maps"). Hargle 14:31, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Camper Strike

Some people know this game as Camper Strike or AS (Awper Strike). I think these two should be added.

I've never heard of it called as such...
In all my time playing Counter-Strike, I have never heard it called Awper Strike. Camper Strike has been thrown around here and there as an insult to the game but it has never been used as an "official" name for it. --Diametes T. Jackson 00:40, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
neither me. You can call it as you want but the official name remain "Counter-Strike" ;) --Chico75 16:31, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
Clearly someone has a one dimensional perspective on the genre of fps; yes folks that is right not all games are like quake and unreal tournament. We can call camping "strategic positioning" in this instance, i am sure. It is not a lot of "humph humph" from bunny hopping across the map and endless run and gunning. kkthx —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.122.44.171 (talk) 03:41, 1 April 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Skins

Do you think we should add a section on the Skins you can play as? (e.g. SAS, Phoenix Connection). If so then i'll be happy to start it.

There was a scetion on Models until two days ago. User:JimmyBlackwing removed it with this comment: removed Player models section - non-notable trivia unnecessary for this article. Do not revert without first bringing it up on talk page [1]
I think it's relevant information as indicated by your post asking whether you should add the section. --Habap 16:09, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

(Original Poster): Thanks for the feedback, if you still think it is relevant then i'll add it as soon as possible.

[edit] Citation Needed (TAG) Abuse

It seems like there is a citation needed tag after almost every sentence in this article. It looks like vandalism to me. As such, I feel that we should remove all the tags that are currently present, espescially considering that much of the citation needed information is easily verifiable. Shadow 16:33, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Added to Request for Protection list Shadow 16:43, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
Note at the bottom of the Counter-Strike article, someone has placed a personal review of Counter-Strike Source, which most definitely is vandalism, and it should be dealt with. --Ccolling 02:26, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree completly

[edit] External Link addition

Counter-Strike.com seems like a pretty obvious addition that's not currently in the external links. They are pretty well known for their community content. Forums, downloads, guides, strategy, mods...anyone disagree?

Abbynormal1 08:30, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

I've not heard anyone disagree that Counter-Strike.com belongs in the external links due to it's large amount of community content. I'm therefore requesting the protected page be edited to include the link, which I believe used to be there. The link used to be something like:

Counter-Strike.com -- Counter-Strike servers, forums, downloads, guides.

Something like that would be appropriate, imho.

If you read above you can see that an argument against that website has' been made already. Please respond to that argument if you wish the link to be included. Thanks! JesseW, the juggling janitor 18:48, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Most Played Online Game?

In The First Section it states that counter strike is the most played online game which is not true it is teh biggest played online computer game yes but halo 2 is most played out of all some one needs to change it to computer game

Do you have a source saying Halo 2 is the most played? --Snkcube 23:35, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
http://archive.gamespy.com/stats/ , Halo 2 may be the most played Xbox Live game, but it is not the most played game online. --

--Ccolling 02:22, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

I thought the most played was that sucky MMORPG World of Warcraft? 85.12.80.128 12:07, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
CS is the most played online FPS, WoW is the most played online game. I'm not sure if this includes all versions for CS, or only one of them.LoopyDood 15:27, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
It's still original research until you start showing some citations :P // 3R1C 18:53, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Description of Weapons

I deleted that section since Wikipedia is not a game guide. This content has already been deleted as an article by itself just a week ago. Now it pops up again here. *sigh* --Jestix 16:57, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Weapons market?

This is only a change to Counter-Strike: Source, and I don't see why it should be included here. Just as the page on Doom 1 wouldn't contain info on every update to Doom 3, this is unrelated information.

I agree, it should be removed, it relates to a successor of 1.6, but not CS 1.6 itself, so therefore it should be abolished completely from the "Counter-Strike" page --Ccolling 02:23, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] How many players were online just before CS was bought by Valve?

I believe it could be useful information. --fs 23:44, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Why would that be useful? --Habap 05:23, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
because it'd show what was the number of players that made valve interested in cs. --fs 17:05, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 100 frames per second and CounterStrike

I see CS players wanting to have a constant framerate of 100 claiming that it's most playable when that's the case. Why is this? I've never heard of other games that need this. And is that something that should be in the article? 85.19.140.9 23:07, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

It has to do with the way the engine works, the same concept of being able to move faster and jump further with 125 FPS in quake. In CS, amongst other things, the amount of weapon recoil is linked to the framerate. -- Laurens Hoek 23:17, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
The human eye apparently only notices a "flicker" of the light if it is less than 60hz, according to information on the Flicker fusion threshold. When you get faster than 60hz, most humans can't tell the difference. They claim they need it, but they might not even notice the difference. Since it cannot be verified that they need it or that they think they need it, we can't put that in the article. --Habap 05:22, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Well I played counter strike for the longest (about 3 years) on 20 fps max when I upgraded I got 60 (video card was locked) when I unlocked it I got 99-100 fps (so about 100fps always) I noticed that the more fps I had the faster I can to react to people and bomb ¬»vÌ®ū§«­­­­¬ 0.o 13:08, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Most people won't notice any difference between 60 fps and 100 fps. The amount of movement that can occur in the 0.006 second difference between when the movement would display at 100 fps and at 60 fps shouldn't be very significant. Now, if the 60 fps is not consistent (that is, when you get into a complex fight, if the fps slows down) then a peak of 100 fps would be useful. I know that in Planetside, the complexity of fights can make a gigantic difference - slowing me from 30 fps to 8 or 9 fps. I haven't played CS in long enough that I don't remember if your fps varies during a round. --Habap 15:21, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
Oh, I remember switching from on-board graphics and dial-up in Day of Defeat to a 64MB card and cable modem. All those guys who had claimed they beat me based on skill were quite humbled by the difference when my machine and connection were as good or better than theirs and I broke even (or ruled in rare situations). So, it can make a big difference, but people arguing about 80 or 90 fps versus 100 fps are just having a pissing match. --Habap 15:25, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Well I have been playing counter strike for so long so I do notice a difference in 60 to 100 fps (fps in my option is reaction time if you have more you have more time to react to people shooting at you the fps varies on smoke nades I remember id drop to 15 fps when I only had max 20 fps (and that was just one smoke nade you bring 5 smoke nades out I am down to like 2fps I have yet to play day of defeat on my new system I might do that next time I go home (I did get almost 300fps on half life 2 in some parts) ¬»vÌ®ū§«­­­­¬ 0.o 15:56, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

I play alot and i can see how that could make a difference, but unless you have a ping of 5 or something your ultimately gong to be held back by lag anyway. 142.167.232.67 17:55, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

The popularity of 100FPS isn't in reference to client-side FPS, it's in reference to server side FPS, otherwise known as "tick rate". 100 tick rate is preferable to 33 or 66 tick rates because it allows for more data to be passed between client and server, improving bullet registration and more. --76.186.122.53 18:39, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Regardless of everyones opinions on the matter, until there is hard science dictating that there is an increase, this is all just original research. // 3R1C 18:48, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Criticism

Shouldn't there be a section for critical reaction, criticism and other things of that nature (public opinion)?192.133.12.101 19:26, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Adding this: Cheating groups, such as, myg0t, JAPS, Rage-Xtreme , and 187ci, have been known to create a disturbance in the game by spamming the microphone, radio commands, or even killing the whole team in one round. This is also known as raging.

Should Admin Abuse be mentioned?  [`.Thirty Thr33]  (Talk)  02:24, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] So many n00bs, so little time.

I have decided against buying any version of Counter-Strike for one reason: the amazing amount of 6 year old noobs plaguing the game. With 1337 speak and hacks abundant, this is putting the game on the edge of no hardcore community at all outside of tournaments. Better buy? Gary's Mod 10. Awesome —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.54.65.226 (talk) 19:06, 5 March 2007 (UTC).

And this is relevant how?

Wikipedia is not an advertisement for Gary's Mod 10.141.155.145.242 01:32, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Counter-Strike = n00bfest is a valid point mind, but garrys mod has its fair share of mingebags —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lovefist233 (talk • contribs) 14:32, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] In-Game ads?

Some history about in-game advertising. NavyCS.com as a website and game server was created late 2003 to test the success of in-game advertising for the United States Navy. The game Counter-Strike was used because of the amount of gamers and the ease of placing advertisements within the maps played. Navy Recruiting Command communicated with Valve Software for ideas and to seek permission for the prototype (no permission was required). Our testing was considered a success and the results were communicated to various organizations such as Harvard Univ and Mediafamily.org. In June of 2004 Viacom announced in-game advertising had a great future. Was the NavyCS.com concept and testing the genesis, I don't know. Ultimately Navy Recruiting Command decided against the concept for various reasons including the violent game play and game endorsement issues (The cost burden was on the player to purchase the game). The Navy did end up creating an on-line game which can be downloaded at Navy.com (we should have stuck with CS :)). NavyCS 11:58, 18 July 2007 (UTC)


How come there's nothing about those annoying ads in this article? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.248.223.109 (talk) 22:35, 10 March 2007 (UTC).

That's a good point, the in-game ads are quite a recent thing. I've not played 1.6 in months but I'll see if I can dig up sme info and screens, and add it in if it isn't already. Thepineapplehead 20:10, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Please be cautious of adding your own opinion regarding to these ads. Adding in mentions of these ads are acceptable, but adding in your opinion, specifically "annoying", is in violation of NPOV. If we allow such opinion, then another person has the same right to claim it can easily be ignored. You can mention that these ads are vexing if you can find a reliable source. --BirdKr 10:15, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm getting the hang of unbiased writing now. Don't worry, if I'm to add in a section about advertisements I'm not going to write "omg valve r so gay these adverts sux omg!!1!one" Thepineapplehead 11:48, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Article name

This may seem silly, but shouldn't the article name technically be Half-Life: Counter Strike? That is the official name, and the name on the box, despite whatever Steam refers to it as. DanPMK 10:00, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

The Wikipedia convention is to label the article with its common name, not the formal title of it. Since most people think of Counter-Strike as a separate entity, we use that as the name of the article. --Habap 13:25, 21 March 2007 (UTC)


[edit] History of Counter-Strike

I think one of the main issues is the lack of reference whatsoever to the Quake mod called Navy Seals by the same developer. It is important that we discuss history in a more informative manner so we need to give credit where credit is due.

You can see for yourself in this article:

http://archive.gamespy.com/modweek/index21.shtm

I would have added this as a reference myself but after looking at the edit page it seems that I need additional help from an administrator before it can be included.

I've also changed the weapons of Counter-Strike paragraph as listing real-life weapons being an original and unique feature of CS is highly unfounded, grossly misleading and untrue. Megapaw 15:05, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What deveoper?

In the 1st paragraph - "commonly abbreviated to CS, is a team-based, tactical first-person shooter video game which originated from a Quake mod of the same developer" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 195.137.203.137 (talk) 15:23, 2 April 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Merging

If there are no objections, I believe it would be best to move the "Counterstrike Surfing" to the "Maps" section. Mastrchf91 02:28, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vent vs Teamspeak

I was wondering what people thought about the edit replacing teamspeak with vent, with the reasoning "Replaced TeamSpeak with Ventrilo, as that is the universally preferred client of all Counter-Strike players". I don't think that is an accurate discription of the state of opinion. I've changed the relevant wording to Teamspeak or Ventrillo but I was wondering what others thought on which should be included. -- Monty845 11:40, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

I would leave both in unless we can find a reliable source that says only Ventrillo is used. I would suspect that there is a mix, just as there is in every other game - and that those who use one or the other can't understand why anyone would ever use the other. --Habap 14:22, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Major Re-Do

I have reformatted this article. I split the insanely long intro into a few sections under ==Gameplay==, improved the "maps" and "mods" sections, and a few other things. If I made a mistake, please discuss it with me here (or at my talk page). Hope everyone likes it. Thanks! Goldfritter 11:30, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

The page has been tagged for cleanup since July last year. It's still massively long winded, I'll see what I can do. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Thepineapplehead (talk • contribs) 20:13, 15 May 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Links to Vtech shooting

The article from http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2007/4/18/230755.shtml?s=ic got their some of their info from http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/18/AR2007041800162.html Which reads "several Korean youths who knew Cho Seung Hui from his high school days said he was a fan of violent video games, particularly a game called "Counterstrike," a hugely popular online game in which players join terrorism or counterterrorism groups and try to shoot each other using all types of guns."

As of now in the Washington Post article they've removed that information. A search on "counterstrike" on the Washington Post site http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/NewsSearch?sb=-1&st=counterstrike& leads to three articles related to VTech shooting. One mentioning Ismail Ax could be a screen name for CS which turns out to be negative. The other two, which shows the connection to CS in the search results, leads to the same WP article I posted, however now nothing about CS is mention.

A search result on "Counter Strike" leads to this article http://blog.washingtonpost.com/posttech/2007/04/counterstrike_va_tech.html Which mentions the said article also mention a developer from Valve graduated from VTech in 2003. But they do say in a update that people who knew him(Cho) in High School said he played CS.

Still if Cho did play CS it doesn't seem right for Triva. Bebopblue 18:18, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Why is this not appropriate for trivia? It's a true, interesting tidbit of information about a recent monumental event. It seems entirely appropriate. KDR 20:51, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
Say Cho drove Volkswagen, should there also be a mention in the Volkswagen article? Or what if Cho liked to drink Heineken.. Well, you get the point I guess.. -- Laurens Hoek 22:04, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
It sounds like POV garbage to me.--WaltCip 22:15, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
But his playing Counter-Strike is being directly related to his violent rampage, making the fact relevant. KDR 01:53, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
Hereby I'm linking drinking Coca-Cola to his rampage, all that sugar can't be good. Or what if he watched Die Hard? Come on, all these accusations are entirely unbased and have no place here. -- Laurens Hoek 14:50, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
I have seen no articles stating he drinks Coke, no article stating he drives a Volkswagen. I have seen articles that he played Counter-Strike. Your argument is flawed and you know it. Look, I play Counter-Strike too. I'm not going to go on a rampage. But this scumbag did and his playing Counter-Strike has been brought up in the media. I am not at all claiming his playing Counter-Strike caused him to become homicidal. Did my trivia entry say that? No it did not. I still feel it is an interesting piece of trivia about a monumental event. KDR 18:48, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

This article is about Counter-Strike, not Cho. Bebopblue 02:31, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pre-Steam Version

The last time I played Counter-Strike, both the Steam version and pre-Steam version coexisted. Is it still possible to play the pre-Steam version of CS? If it is, where can I download it? (No, I am not referring to the cracked version.)--Voidvector 13:04, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

You can only play it on Steam, afaik, playing it in a non-Steam environment is tantamount to software piracy (since the only way to obtain said software is through illicit means). Additionally, this page is for the discussion about the topic's article's, not for discussion about the article topic. // 3R1C 18:52, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
Did you know that before Steam was created Counter-Strike was a freeware add-on to the original Half-Life? And I am pretty sure it did not have a clause in the EULA preventing redistribution. So, it is not piracy. Anyway, I will ask elsewhere. --Voidvector 20:48, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
The fact you say it was freeware (note: past tense) negates that. Valve purchased the intellectual property to Counterstrike. I'm willing to bet that it applies to previous versions as well. // 3R1C 11:35, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Actually I found it. Fileplanet still have it. http://www.fileplanet.com/32405/0/section/Patches --Voidvector 20:56, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Doesn't make it any more or less legal becaues its on FilePlanet. // 3R1C 11:35, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
To 3R1C, purchasing the IT will not make what you already own illegal. If I buy a record and later a company buys the IT rights to a song on it, they don't own my record now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.233.36.155 (talk) 04:13, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Newb/Noob

Is it applicable to the counter-strike wiki to have Newb/Noob, as this it was deleted and in playing this game for 10min online you will hear BOTH these words used during play, but may not know the meaning. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 202.45.119.4 (talk) 00:01, 24 April 2007 (UTC).

Those terms are not specific to Counter-Strike, which is why they have their own article instead of being included in this one. Having sections in the article for every popular slang term used in Counter-Strike simply wouldn't work, and selecting "more relevant" terms to include would rely on our PoV, which is unacceptable on Wikipedia. Hargle 01:19, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Both words derive from the slang' "Newbie" which is almost an abbreviation of the words New-Beginner —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chabit (talk • contribs) 00:59, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Counter-Strike maps moved to gaming wiki

Since the maps were up for deletion and they seemed to be an important part of the gameplay I moved it to The Encyclopedia Gamia before it got deleted. You can see it here --Cs california 22:40, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

It's rather contradictory that Wikipedia allows a seperate article for each episode of a TV series, but not a separate article for each map of a popular game. 130.126.246.122 16:23, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
You don't mention the TV series, see Wikipedia:Pokémon test. They might be an error also, but simply two wrongs don't make a right. --Jestix 17:47, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
I know I rather have them separate too. I use to make pages for the Command & Conquer section until the wikipedia admins deleted them then I joined the encyclopedia gamia where I can create article on specific game elements. If you guys can please help improve the counter strike sections. It really needs some work --Cs california 05:25, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
Yes we are quite happy if you do them at the "encyclopedia gamia", wikipedia is not the "one wiki to rule them all". There is stuff that is better handeled by a specific themed wiki, and thats the very reason this themed wikies exist. --Jestix 09:31, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
You can link the pages back here on the article or talk page. Thats what users did with articles like meteos. I also hate how that dam orphanbot tags all non-copyright images here if you just forget to tag the image and don't log on for a while it gets deleted. --Cs california 18:00, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Weapon List

I think some one should add a weapons list with their "real" names and in game names —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rynosaur (talk • contribs) 02:41, 24 May 2007.

The primary concern is whether such a list should be included in an encyclopedia. Generally, excessive lists of non-notable information are frowned upon. (also: Wikipedia:List guideline) +A.0u 04:31, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
There's no need, it's of no use to anybody :P Thepineapplehead 20:33, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Article Destruction

This article has been completely destroyed for whatever reasons. People vandalising the article, people who don't know what they are doing attempting to fix the article, people who didn't seem to understand that this had become canonical location for Counter-Strike information pulled in from all four corners of the internet, for which the source websites quite often no longer exist, or exist in a completely different format.

Anyhow, good work to all of you, way to screw things right up.

Quite right; I edited this article a fair amount a couple of years ago, and the drop in quality I spotted when I returned to it recently was quite disappointing. OK, admittedly some of the content back then was pretty bloated, but there were definitely some aspects of those old versions that were better. It'll be a lot of work going through everything and restoring the good bits... --Nick RTalk 14:08, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
Such as what? I merely re-wrote parts of it as it read like a gigantic essay. Thepineapplehead 20:26, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
It was pretty awful about a year ago when I first read it. Compared to then, it's a lot better now Steevm 02:10, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Errors in "Weapons"

There are errors in the parts where it mentions that the names of weapons in the menus used to be actual names before version 1.6.

Pre-1.6 it was only like this if you used the mod version (the free Half-Life modification you download), but not if you used the retail version (the one you buy in stores). I'm not sure where to find good sources for this, so I'm leaving it as it is for now.

I'm not sure if it should be mentioned, but there also exists a patch which changes the made-up names to the real ones.

Whether it is chosen to ignore the pre-1.6 retail version or not, I removed the reference to GIAT FAMAS - Clarion 5.56, and replaced it with AK-47 - CV-47, as the Famas was not in CS before version 1.6.

Lars Holm 12:19, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Good stuff :D There are also numerous updates for Source which fix the buymenu names, they're just a simple cstrike_english.txt file update.
Good call on changing the FAMAS to the AK though ;) Thepineapplehead 18:28, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] M4A1 "scope removed" nonsense

The article says "the Colt M4A1 Carbine had its scope removed"... if that refers (as it seems to me) to the real life M4A1, then that is absolute bull**** as the M4A1 doesn't have a scope by default. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.152.114.211 (talk) 13:56, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] CS - CSS Sprays

One of the unique things about CS is the ability to create and "spray" a message in-game. I suggest discussing Wally, spray sizes and use. NavyCS 12:14, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Legacy

I made an addition to the legacy section of this topic by expressing the different types of counter strike communities that are clearly already listed in the ariticle. I received a new mail message stating that a citation was required for my addition. It also stated that self promotion was against the rules. This I completely understand and agree with totally, however my intent was to broaden the topic regarding those groups who are the biggest part of counter strike. Namely the customers and how they created their own way of interaction amongst themselves, just as they created the original game. These groups are the reason why this game has continued to be the number 1 all time FPS multi-player game in history.

I provided a weblink to one of the larger of such groups websites as others have obviously provided the links to CPL, CAL, and many other entities that are discussed in the articles content. I stated that the link provided was only one such group as a reference point for further understanding and explaination towards the origins of this game title and its past and future course.

Remember it was the community of gamers who made the original MOD counter strike and I thought it was important to touch a little more on this type of independant community of gamers and balance the discussion as the companies who are listed with their weblinks are so predominant that this point seems drowned out.

My question is then how could such a community already referenced in the original article be self promotion and the companies who profit from the game not be but allowed such a weblink?

And just an FYI the community I listed via link is in no way hurting for page views.

We received 365933 page views since November 18, 2006

Could someone please educate me regarding how I might get this issue resolved?

Thanks in advance,

VarGT 18:21, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Addition: Steev seems to have been the person who took offense in some way to my addition to the topic so I have asked him to respond here. VarGT 19:18, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't know if I reacted too harshly; but your user nick (GT) seems to indicate at least some sort of connection to the link you posted, which is something generally to be avoided. Maybe I should just have removed the link? Maybe I'm just being paranoid? There are so many people continuously posting links to sites with which they are affiliated... Especially as you seem to have created the account in order to add this information to the CS page. One problem with people adding links to their own sites is that if one such site is listed, others feel they should be listed too; then the article becomes a big mess of lists of links - exactly what the article is not supposed to become.
That said, the info on public servers is probably merited and I should have probably been a little less zealous in wiping everything. I'm sorry about that. However, I don't believe the link to any particular site is really necessary, and I remain unconvinced that you posted the link as a completely independent entity. The rule of thumb is that if you are INDEED important enough to merit mention on wiki, someone unaffiliated to you will add the information.
In other words I'm particularly concerned about the link not being posted by an independent contributor; less so about the actual body text about public servers. Steevm 21:27, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

This logic, although in no way completely improper, does have some fatal flaws. The first of which I see is as I've already expressed above. I am, as are many others, just as interested in the independents as the larger established makers of the current businesses. If we all followed such assumptions as was made in this case, I think we do both this resource and the purposes behind it a huge disservice. For example if my name was VarCS would you have blocked or withheld every link where CS is already available? I think not. The fact is I understand the idea and reason behind your actions however; caution is usually the best policy behind such unilateral decisions as were made in this case. So again I ask as I have already done in my first post here, how can we all come to a solution for those independents that are clearly a huge part of the community? If the link to a specific group bothers you or others because you feel it is self promotion how can we all justify the links to the manufacturers, CAL, CPL, etc? At this time I would request from Steve, that as you have blocked the content that I have included because of the link provided as you have expressed, you be the one to rectify those actions. Steve go ahead and remove the link to the provided website until such a community decision like a censoring for the entire Wiki users body and researchers who visit it for a better understanding of any topic can be reached by the majority not a single user. The remaining information provided however is and would be helpful to anyone who would like a better understanding on the topic and useful as a further research tool for understanding how this almost decade old game still remains number one in all multi-player gaming statistics. This was the reason for my original post and the only reason for my addition to the topic as I attempted to provide the largest reason why it remains so still to this day. As you have said already in your reply here the link is what most concerns you so remove that link until consensus can be achieved on this topic of the independents having less rights to post a link to such historical locations then the manufacturers who clearly have no boundaries here, and do so with impunity.

Thank you all in advance,

VarGT-CS-Gamer-Concerned user. VarGT 01:39, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

The kind of 'content' you added seems to be nothing more than an attempt to gain publicity for your website. The website in question adds no value at all to the article, nor does a reference. There are a million sites like the one mentioned, built on a generic CMS, with no actual content, hardly any members, hardly any visitors. Should all those million sites be linked from here? I don't think so, so why should yours be? -- Laurens Hoek 16:15, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Did you read the above discussion at all? Again the website that is in question has approx 390,000 views with out any help from Wikipedia! It’s had approx 50,000 more views in the 2 weeks since the original post... I do not think your description of that particular site holds any water, they have over 100 members and close to a half million views in less then a year. However as I said above take the link out if you feel its self promotion which in my opinion it is not. The argument you make is exactly the point I have already made here. It is those millions of websites you mention that keep CS the number 1 played ever on-line game of all time. It’s they who you seem to have no respect for, those very same millions who keep all those other manufactures and their links and the CPL's, CAL's, etc... Alive and well making money. My problem here is the hypocrisy of the notion that its ok for the other links to groups like mygOt that have only harmed the game and the community that appear to be acceptable to Wikipedia users and those groups like the one I added that are not welcome. Why? Why not have a page listed to such independent entities this way the proverbial playing field is leveled between the independents and the manufactures? Leveled between the hackers and the hack not’s? Still waiting for an answer to that question and the others I have listed above.

Thank you, VarGT 18:24, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

The reference to groups such as myg0t may be indeed questionable. However, you will have to agree that tournaments, such as the CPL and the WCG have made contributions to the legacy of this game that stand out far beyond all those community websites. Throwing around statistics will not help you, you have to take into consideration that there is no actual information on the website you mentioned that is of any use to the article, which is one of the criteria. The fact that community websites help a community is sort of a given, there are also a million websites about checkers, should they all be listed in the checkers article? I don't think so. These articles would become a mess and there are other places to do that, such as portal websites. Furthermore, there is the the question of accuracy of the statistics you throw around. If you want to show off, use a reliable measuring system, such as Google Analytics, rather than self-produced statistics. This article is already a mess and there is no use in messing it up more. -- Laurens Hoek 08:02, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

I disagree totally with your statement that because of tournaments they hold any more relevance then the groups who actually created the need for such competitive designs. Originally I simply wanted to express that PUBS were and are the starting ground for all of those places. Now I am going ahead with my supporting of the citation request so here I go. First citation will be http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clan_%28computer_gaming%29 , Game Informer 01.2007 New Angel Munoz Interview with game informer magazine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberathlete_Amateur_League , the purpose and intent letter of group in question on the website previously listed and the evolving nature of such communities, http://www.gamerstrust.org/gamerstrust/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=580 , and the following links to others who are listed in Wiki with seemingly no problems http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SK_Gaming , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Team_3D , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fnatic , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myg0t , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pure_Pwnage . Regarding your doubts about the page views as being accurate and being seen as "Showing off" I will try and contact the Webmaster of the website and see if they can have Google verify the webpage views as currently displayed on the website. However, it was not my intent to "Show off" it was my intent to put to rest the claim/accusation that self promotion was the goal. Clearly that is not the case in this instance and in proper perspective for this discussion. Its as simple as the nose on your face that without these groups, clans, societies no such thing as CAL, CPL, WCG, would even exist as clearly stated in the sources above listed. About the article becoming a mess I say with the amount of links already present that is purely not the case. The article is informative and a great tool for understanding the term "Counter Strike" and it should remain so, not criticized for having to much information on the origins and continuation of the topic.

Still awaiting answers to my original questions.

Thank you,

VarGT 17:43, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I doubt the notability of several of the wiki articles you linked to above (one of which is tagged as not necessarily satisfying the notability criteria). Many are just lists. Still, that's not really the issue here.
I don't think either of us are disagreeing about adding relevant content. It would probably add to the article if you can provide referenced information pertaining to the "scene" and its influence on e-sports etc. (and link to the corresponding wiki articles on gaming clans and e-sports). Just try to keep it NPOV and avoid any conflict of interests. As long as you can understand that these are important values (and that that is why I removed the content in the first place), I don't see a problem if you provide good (independent) info.
And yes, the article is a mess. Take a look at the French version to see how it should be done :) Steevm 18:23, 7 August 2007 (UTC)


Your questions were answered. -- Laurens Hoek 11:31, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Well perhaps there is light at the end of this tunnel. Steevm thank you for seeing my point before the interruptions began. I would like to at least provide what I was able to obtain from the Webmaster for the group in question, for the doubting individual above who seemed bent on questioning the accuracy of the web views. And I would like to thank that groups Webmaster as well for the speed at which the information was provided and the explanation of some of the criteria for authentication of such data. I have received 2 screen shots of the data in question and both were taken by that Webmaster from the websites host "hostdime" any other independent inquiries are welcomed by the Webmaster to the hosting company directly if the stats are in any way still in question. http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g111/sperrin7/gamerstrustmonthycountries.jpg , http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g111/sperrin7/gamerstrustmonthyhits.jpg

I will do as you have suggested Steevm, now before I do anything will it be you who removes the website link or myself? Do I rewrite the addition and replace it in the article or do you? I would appreciate any help regarding these specific questions because I in no way wish to have a repeat performance of "citation required." Steevm if you prefer to answer such questions privately via Private Message I will be awaiting your correspondence.

Thank you all for a discussion that was engaging and lively,

P.S. I cannot read French to see how it should be done on that page but thank you for the tip I will go and see if I can find a free translator. ;)

VarGT 00:28, 8 August 2007 (UTC)


Laurens shouldn't your last comment be below mine above and before this one? And it doesn't surprise me that you as the author of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fnatic see only through your CAL/CPL lens. And you of course are right my questions were answered but not by you. I believe this discussion came to an end some 11 hours before your last comment.

Thanks,

VarGT 00:06, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] How many players in a game?

There is an interesting fact missing IMHO, how many players are in each group in a typical setting?

Well some servers have 10 based on a CAL type match, others have 16, 20, and even up to 32. I have seen some servers that have 60 at a time for CS but I have never logged in to see how they perform.

Good point though.

VarGT 00:09, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

32 is the max if you see more than 32 slots available its a hltv spectator server. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.155.107.244 (talk) 18:50, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Duplicate Sections

There is right now two realism sections, both of them are cover similar topics, they should be either merged or one should be removed

[edit] Suspected vandalism

QUICKFEET.D CAL - TEAM 3D - THE BEST

^-- under the Condition Zero section which is under version history. Is this suppose to be there? 68.249.179.4 (talk) 01:23, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes it was vandalism, and it has been removed. --Silver Edge (talk) 02:00, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Can someone get rid of: COUNTER STRIKE NEW VERSION 2007-2008 is Out (it's a section without any text. I would do it, but the thing is semi-protected)? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.138.245.178 (talk) 18:21, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Counter-Strike Manager

Would it be an idea to include some info about the Counter-Strike Manager game in the culture section? and maybe add a link to it? (http://www.cs-manager.com) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.5.171.41 (talk) 09:19, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Box art

Why was the box art removed? It described the whole game...I'll put it back in. 75.172.9.54 (talk) 08:34, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Typo in Controversy Section

The quote: You can rehearse these type of massacres on simulators which are called video games and you can...therefor made more proficient in doing this." There is an 'e' at the end of therefore, should I correct this or is the quote intentionally spelt wrong?

[edit] Counter Strike Beta (Pre-Alpha)

I beta tested counterstrike I believe it was late 1997 or early 1998. I specifically remeber when you wanted to buy a weapon in the game you had to hit Tilde (~) to bring the developers console down, then you had to type code to buy the weapons. Buying ammo was more rediculous, you had to buy the specific ammo for the specific gun, if you bought the wrong ammo you were SOL for that round. This archaic system was streamilined into the modern interface used today in CS and CS: Source. There were only two levels (Militia and I cant remeber it's name but you start on a bridge and have to rescue hostages in a parking garage), and the only game mode was Hostage Rescue better known as CS mode. In CS_Milita you stormed a house / mansion for a hostage rescue. Thats all I can remeber, If you know more please add. -Devonthedude —Preceding unsigned comment added by DevonTheDude (talk • contribs) 05:16, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] CS free alternatives

perhaps alternatives as Americas Army and ET: True_Combat:_Elite should be noted in the article. I believe (and many others too) that CS is lately nothing more than a legacy (outdated) game and readers of the article should be referred to some better (and free) alternatives.

KVDP (talk) 08:54, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not for personal soapboxing. If you would like to find reliable secondary sources to suggest that it is a legacy, feel free to, but your opinion alone will not suffice. --Izno (talk) 18:54, 9 June 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Culture Section

I was wondering if I could update the culture section, I think that it is outdated and possibly mention www.gotfrag.com, I couldn't see it anywhere. Anyone have any feedback on that? Funni3fx3 (talk) 09:52, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Scrimmage Section

I was also wondering if I could also add a scrimmage section. This would be about basic scrimming information, how its done and just the details about it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Funni3fx3 (talk • contribs) 09:57, 12 June 2008 (UTC)