Talk:Councils of Carthage
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This article incorporates text from the Encyclopædia Britannica Eleventh Edition, now in the public domain. |
It seems to me that the the more proper term for the meetings at Carthage is "council." In modern usage, "council" and "synod" have acquired a somewhat more precise distinction in their meaning, at least in the Catholic Church.
A meeting of the entire episcopate of a region, nation, etc. for the purposes of enacting binding legislation on faith, morals or discipline is a "council." A synod is an ecclesiastical meeting which does not meet all of these requirements: only certain bishops, a mix of bishops and others, deliberative purpose rather than specifically legislative etc.
By these definitions, the meetings at Carthage were definitely councils and not merely synods. If the status is uncertain or other editors do not wish to follow this distinction, could we at least name the article Councils and Synods of Carthage? In Catholic use, I have never come across "Synod of Carthage." --Vita Dulcedo et Spes Nostra 15:14, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
- Ummm... I'm sorry, please read the Catholic Encyclopedia entry on African Synods. Namely the first sentence: There was no general council of the entire Church held at any time in North Africa. It sounds like you know more than the Catholics of 1907 on this topic (or vice versa). "Synod of Carthage" is the name most commonly used by historians and secular scholars. I think if you seriously want to try to rename or move the article, you are going to have to come up with your sources (and even then, we are going to have competing sources, so I'm not sure how this can be settled). If it ends up that secular and religious sources use "Synods of Carthage" but only a minor POV uses "Councils of Carthage", then we have to go with the former to be more inclusive, while mentioning the latter in brief. This isn't a matter of us deciding the "Proper" definition for these meetings, but simply using the terms that our sources use. Keep in mind WP:OR, WP:V, WP:RS, WP:CITE and WP:NPOV.--Andrew c 00:56, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Synod vs. Council and 3rd Carthage 397ad
Andrew c, we meet again. I was just looking into the article, Biblical canon which refers to the "third Synod of Carthage" which took place in 397ad and was the first such council to approve the 27-book NT common to the Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant churches to the present day. This is no small oversight in this article. So I am including it.
In relation to the above discussion I have Googlled both forms with these results:
There appears to be no contest between the relative frequency of the two forms.
An additional note: The terms synod and council are derived from the Greek and the Latin terms which are considered equivalent. The term synod has remained relatively more common in references to Eastern meetings with council generally being more common in Western usage (at least among the Orthodox and Catholic Churches, see Synod. General Council and General Synod have both been employed to refer to what is presently called an Ecumenical Council. Preference between the two terms' synod and council, has alternated in various eras.
The division of the terms into council for a universal meeting and synod for a regional one is a false one and of expressly modern origin. As the Orthodox Churches have not had a universal meeting of bishops since the medieval period and the Catholic Church has continued with the practice, synod has become associated with regional meetings and councils with universal meetings. However, Catholics still have regional councils and Anglican universal meetings are called general synods.
So the question remains, what about the North African meetings? As they were clearly features of the Western Church, Council should be preferred and as Google demonstrates, actually is.
The venerable though frequently archaic Catholic Encyclopedia notwithstanding, I would propose that this article move to the preferred and historically more sensible term, "Councils of Carthage," which is the likely term on which the reader is likely to search. Vaquero100 18:00, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] 397 A.D.
What about the Council of Carthage of 397 A.D.? Winston.PL 10:21, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
