Talk:Coriander

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 Coriander is within the scope of WikiProject Plants, an attempt to better organize information in articles related to plants and botany. For more information, visit the project page.
B This article has been rated as B-class on the quality scale.
Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the importance scale.


Food Portal
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Food and drink, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of food and drink articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
B This article has been rated as B-class on the quality scale.
High This article has been rated as high-importance on the importance scale.
Coriander is included in the 2007 Wikipedia for Schools, or is a candidate for inclusion in future versions. Please maintain high quality standards, and make an extra effort to include free images, because non-free images cannot be used on the CDs.


Contents

[edit] Copyright infringement?

The entire section Growing in containers and some of History are the same as the text found at one of the external references (http://www.selfsuffucientish.com/coriander.htm). This looks like a copyright violation to me. Hajhouse 06:35, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Genetic cause

> This difference in perception of the flavor of cilantro may have a genetic cause.

A genetic variation in the plant or the person who eats it?

-- Viajero 10:06 29 Jun 2003 (UTC)

The person who eats it. Personally I can't stand the taste of cilantro. M123 03:47, 24 Aug 2003 (UTC)
Me either... never knew it might be a genetic thing though. I also think I might have that "supertaster" gene, where some things taste very bitter... --Dante Alighieri | Talk 01:11, May 24, 2005 (UTC)
I'm one of those who thinks the plant tastes "soapy". Funny anecdote: I was having dinner with my wife at my boss's house; his wife was from Costa Rica and had served us salad containing cilantro. I tasted my salad and immediately spoke up and said that his wife must have forgotten to rinse the bowls after washing them, because my salad had a soapy taste. Oops. BTW, all cilantro tastes this way to me, so it's not the plant, but me. Any researchers want to study my genes? Wdfarmer 20:10, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Do we have any idea on the prevelance of this soapy cilantro syndrome? People always look at me funny when I make a comment about how I find eating cilantro like eating a bar of soap ;) --Q Canuck 15:00, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

It seems to follow genetic lines, but does NOT seem to follow the same genetics as Phenylthiocarbamide. If someone has the actual document Genetic Analysis of PTC and Cilantro Taste Preferences by Heather Noxon and Alex Meyer, it might help answer this question. For what it is worth, I can taste PTC, and I think cilantro's soapy flavor is disgusting. --Mdwyer 00:20, 11 July 2006 (UTC)


I hate fresh cilantro, but I like using dried coriander seed a lot. I'm not sure why...69.196.62.164 18:31, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

I have heard of people who initially disliked coriander acquiring a taste for it later. The sister of a friend of mine, after disliking it most of her life, eventually went wild over it. Perhaps part of the answer is that people's tastebuds become less sensitive with age (or rather that they gradually lose them) and are thus able to appreciate tastes that would formerly have been too strong for them (and sometimes find things they formerly liked too bland). For example, many people acquire a taste for olives and/or hot spices only as adults. Personally, I have always loved cilantro, which, for me has a delicate and magical taste. 38.117.238.82 06:02, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

That happened to me, too (the smell of the stuff literally made me gag, now I use ridiculous amounts of the stuff when I'm cooking). I didn't used to like olives, either, but that's probably down to childhood experience (I ate one, thinking it was a grape, and got a nasty shock :)) Paul E Nolan 15:02, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
I love reading, writing, and talking about food as much as anybody, but please remember that this space is intended, per the Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines, for discussing the Coriander article, not our experiences with coriander/cilantro itself. Thanks. Mmccalpin 18:48, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Sorry :) Paul E Nolan 23:40, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
L.M.T.

I recently(a few months ago) discovered that I also have this gene. I also have a few colognes that I thought smelled like detergent as well, only to look up the notes and find out they had coriander in them. Surprise! I know the article says that they report a "rank smell", which, if it were true in this case, I wouldn't wear it. I want to do a little more searching on this, see if we can get it sourced, etc. So far it seems it's all original research, but there's no way it's made up. Cheers. Wikidan829 16:44, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

It wasn't "old age" that made me start liking coriander leaves. I hated them as a kid. But around when I was 18, I started to love them.. and the soapy taste went away ... If you want to like coriander leaves... force yourself to eat a generous amounts of them every day for a week. The soapy taste will disappear... :)24.6.23.3 16:35, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Names

As occurences of the word "cilantro" outnumber (although slightly) the occurences of the word "coriander" on Google [1] I thought it was appropriate to include the name "cilantro" in the first paragraph, and not buried down in the article with "chinese parsley" and "methi", as it seems to be as common as "coriander". Nohat 06:49, 2004 Mar 13 (UTC)

I agree. Good call. WormRunner | Talk 07:06, 13 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Ooops! - missed seeing this discussion - I'll move leaves above seeds so cilantro is more visible - MPF 01:09, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)
In the US, it seems that coriander is the name for the seeds and cilantro is the name for the leaves. --Dante Alighieri | Talk 01:11, May 24, 2005 (UTC)
I'm American. I don't know how it's used elsewhere, but here the plant itself is called "cilantro" and its seeds are called "coriander." Cilantro and coriander are both used in cooking. We have two words for it because the leaves and stems taste very different from the seeds. They're considered two different herbs here. Most Americans don't even know they come from the same plant. So, you should probably make some kind of note at the top of the article explaining the difference in usage. When I first read the article, my first impression was, "Wow, this entire article is wrong! Coriander is cilantro seeds; they're not the same thing!" I was very confused.
In the United States, Coriander leaves were generally known as "Chinese or Mexican Parsley" for a long time... with the growth of the Hispanic immigrant community, people gradually came to use "cilantro" which is the form used in Spanish. This has happened with many other foods. For example, chickpeas are now called "garbanzo" and broad beans are called "faba" or fava" and rocket is called "arugula" etc. etc.24.6.23.3 16:39, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Culantro

This was the third paragraph under the Leaves section: "In Peruvian cuisine, the leaves are used in a great number of traditional recipes, and are known as 'culantro.' The seeds have also recently been incorporated into newer recipes." Even on Wikipedia, it seems culantro is a totally different plant (Eryngium foetidum). This is also noted further down in ~this~ article on coriander. It seems misleading then to state a few paragraphs above that coriander is known in Peru as culantro. If the Peruvians actually call it by the wrong name though, perhaps a reference would good here. Otherwise it seems the clause should be struck in the meantime. Tokalon73 20:48, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Ha ha ha ha... culantro. That brings out the child in me. 15:15, 18 February 2008 (UTC) Culo lover. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.228.52.221 (talk)

[edit] Buzz?

Can you get a buzz off of cilantro? Whenever I have a serious amount of it I get a slightly stoned sensation. Maybe it's just the tasty tacos....

Never heard of that. I'll have to try eating more of it. How much did you have to ingest to get a buzz? dave 01:00, May 20, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Changing taste

My first experience of coriander (so called here in Australia as we use the word interchangeably for seeds and leaves) was while travelling overland from Europe to Australia back in the 1970s, by the time we reached SE Asia having been on the road for quite some time, I found it in just about everything local we ate and it made me quite nauseous...

Many years later I love the stuff and can't get enough... leading me to wonder whether it may have been some kind of mineral or vitamin deficiency I have or had then which influences my taste and response.... a bit like zinc tally if you've ever experienced the change which comes about in taste sensation if you actually need it...

The frist few times I tried coriander leaves as a kid, they did taste like soap to me. But after eating a number of times I grew to love it and now I eat it with relish. To tell the truth, I can't understand why I thought it was "soapy" before as it doesn't taste like that anymore.. I guess tastes do change... maybe something in your taste buds change after being exposed to coriander leaves a few times. :) 24.6.23.3 16:31, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Use in Coca-Cola

I reverted a note about how Coriander is used in Coca-cola. I'm concerned that there is no support for this (obviously!). At the very least, it needs to be supported with something subjective. Is it the flavor of the leaves or the seeds that is found in Coca-cola? I'd be okay with this showing back up under a 'trivia' section, or maybe someone needs to expand the 'uses' section to include a number of flavoring uses. --Mdwyer 14:11, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Oil of Coriander is used in flavoring Coca-Cola along with other essential oils. See Coca-Cola_formula.24.6.23.3 16:23, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Removed text

I just pulled the following passage from the article:

The name coriander derives from Latin “coriandrum” (which was first noted by Pliny), in turn from Greek “κοριανδρον”.

I have at hand a copy of the Elder Pliny's Natural History, just finished checking every indexed mention of coriander in that lengthy book, & failed to find anything to support (or explain) this statement; he does not offer any etymological information about Coriander. (I also doubt Pliny would be a useful authority about the etymology of English words.) -- llywrch 05:13, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

The OED confirms everything was correct in that etymology except the Pliny part, so I added the correct part back in. OED also had a different spelling for the Ancient Greek, so I changed to their's. But wow, you actually checked through Pliny to verify that fact? I'm impressed. - Taxman Talk 15:54, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
Well, what I did was look thru the index of botanical items, & checked every mention of "coriandrum" it indexed. No, I didn't read the entire book; that would have taken more than a couple of hours. Maybe someday I'll do just that -- integrate material from the first encyclopedia (much as we have from other public domain sources) & check every reference Wikipedia makes to it. It is a project I often think about. -- llywrch 21:30, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cilantro in the US?

I'm pretty sure the name varies regionally. I grew up on the East Coast, and while I knew of coriander -- only the fruit; I was not aware of anyone using the leaves -- I only heard of cilantro when I moved to California. And it tastes like soap. TCC (talk) (contribs) 02:42, 24 March 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Green Coriander Seeds

There seems to be at least two varieties of coriander plants. At Indian grocers you will always find bags of green coriander seeds along with bags of brown coriander seeds. This article seems to imply that all coriander seeds are brown.24.6.23.3 16:11, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

This is because the seeds were not allowed to ripen. 72.188.213.185 13:31, 3 November 2007 (UTC)


They go brown when they dry.

[edit] Removed "Riboidiota" hoax material

DrFranklin added a hoax reference to an enzyme called "Riboidiota", purportedly related to the way coriander is metabolized. Noting that the "Riboidiota" doesn't end in -ase, like the vast majority of enzymes, includes the word "idiot", and doesn't appear in the BRENDA enzyme database at http://www.brenda.uni-koeln.de/ (or anywhere else), I concluded that this was an attempt to sneak misinformation into the article, and reverted that portion to its previous state. The supporting reference made no mention of "Riboidiota". Not-from-here 21:09, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Medicinal uses section

Why was this summarily deleted? Some of the claims were referenced, and there are similar sections on other foods. Is there some sort of specific Wikipedia policy on including claims for alternative medicine/herbalism on plant articles? If not, I think the medicinal uses section warrants a restore (possibly revision to insure greatest level of accuracy). Eliz81 15:35, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Answers. I deleted the section because the references did not meet the standards of WP:RS, because medical claims were being made without back up, because the section was written in a original research style, and it was not very encyclopedic. In addition, undue weight was given to medical claims that had little or no medical research. As I recall, a lot of the information was about mercury poisoning against which there are much better chelation therapies. Wikipedia does not have a policy except for the ones above. Unreliable sources, undue weight and original research must be all be avoided. Alternative medicine does not receive a dispensation from meeting standards listed above, especially in making medical claims that could cause someone reading this article to take action that may or may not lead to serious injury. The section needs to be rewritten, and I'll help. But keep it to a paragraph, use really good sources (I can help there), and don't make medical claims that can't be verified. A lot of plant species can be helpful to people. But a lot of information has been abused. St. John's wort is a perfect example of a plant that has some effect on depression, yet it appears that the amount necessary to have a clinical effect may actually be toxic. And anyone who has depression needs to be treated in numerous ways to prevent suicide or other anti-social episodes. Let's keep balance. Coriander is a nice spice, and it's medicinal uses need to be supported. Orangemarlin 17:31, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
This sounds quite reasonable to me. I'm no alternative medicine guru, but a few sourced mentions of medicinal uses shouldn't be too out of line. The section was created by different authors with unfortunately varying levels of providing references for their claims. The last version of it containing the section can be seen here. Which claims do you find sourced and acceptable, based on the claims and the references? For example, I find the salmonella claims long, dubious and not worth restoring. Claims about illness prevention and cure are very different than, say, relieving headaches. The diuretic and carminative claims are referenced, and don't seem particularly controversial to me. This is how I would rewrite the section (references to be restored):

Coriander has been used as a folk medicine for the relief of anxiety and insomnia in Iranian folk medicine. Experiments in mice support its use as an anxiolytic.[1] Coriander seeds are also used in traditional Indian medicine as a diuretic by boiling equal amounts of coriander seeds and cumin seeds, then cooling and consuming the resulting liquid. [2] In holistic and some traditional medicine, it is used as a carminative and for general digestive aid.[3][4][5]

How does this sound to you? Do the references check out as reliable sources? I agree, Coriander is a nice spice, so let's give it a nice article. Cheers! Eliz81 19:07, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Hmmmm. Looks good. Couple of suggestions: you should really use WP:CITET for inline citations. Second, your third reference looks a bit spammish, meaning it looks like a commercial website, but I could be wrong. I actually like what you've written!!! See compromise is good. I've updated your first reference within your post above to make it fit with WP:CITET. Hope you don't mind. Note how if you use the PMID number in the id, you can click on it and go directly to the article's abstract. Some abstracts have a much better doi number, which also can be used. So, someone can quickly look at the reference, click to see the abstract, see the authors and journal, etc. Otherwise, there's a lot of cutting and pasting. You can also do the same for web sites. Note what I did on your second. I decided to delete your third reference, because it really is a spam site (meaning commercial). Orangemarlin 19:44, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I see I have been a wee bit naughty in the citing department! The cut n paste of the www address is just so easy. Twinkle should come up with a JS shortcut for the form or something. Thanks for fixing it up for me. Now I shall hunt down a better carmative/digestive reference... ah ha! Now I have added it, citations properly formatted. I found three possible citations I thought might be acceptable. Would you like to pick which one(s) are most agreeable? I didn't realize how many herbal sites were commercial, those took a while to find. Eliz81 20:07, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
It's fine, although the last three references are secondary. But I'm not too worried. The Foodee site is very spammish. I'd delete it, since you did a good enough job with the other two. Cut and paste it to the main article. I'd be careful with the section title. Maybe Potential medical uses. Give it a try. Orangemarlin 20:36, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Restored and titled as you suggested. Thanks for all your help. Can't wait to eat some yummy cilantro tonight!! :) Eliz81 21:18, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Wait a minute??? Coriander and cilantro are the same plant? Didn't know that. I hate cilantro. My office used to be next to a clinatro farm here in California, and I can't stand the stuff. But I love coriander in some foods. Hmmmm. Interesting. Orangemarlin 22:37, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Oh yeah. I had the "pleasure" of trying this stuff on my prime rib at a wedding a few months ago. Can we say dishwasher soap? I wish I knew what it tasted like to other people. Wikidan829 03:02, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
But it's what makes salsa so delicious! :) Eliz81 12:53, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
It's what ruins a good salsa. Blech. If Coriander and cilantro are the same thing, then you can write what you want here, because I know that cilantro will kill anything around. Throw cilantro on food, and I'd lose 10lbs a week. Yuck, yuck, yuck, I'm now nauseous. Orangemarlin 23:27, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Substitutes

I removed this text from the article, but if it can be cited, etc, it might be good to put some of it back. --Mdwyer (talk) 21:04, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

There is another type of plant which gives the same aroma like coriander and it is available in North Eastern India, cultivated in Shillong- the capital of Meghalaya State. It is a pair of leaves and is available only during winter months when coriander is not available. It's an excellent substitute.