Talk:Contemplative prayer

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I would like to add that the 'criticism' section links to an article that uses circular logic and a single POV to 'criticize' contempletive prayer. (E.g. the author uses Biblical quotes ad hoc to support his claims.) Unfortunately, as there is no universal understanding of 'union with God', any claim on its value is completely subjective, and opinion doesn't have a place in encyclopedic articles. Therefore, we aught to keep to the facts and describe contemplative prayer rather than put value judgements on it.

Needs a lot of work, general formatting to fit the standards. The external link at the bottom needs changed too - by no means is it universally agreed upon that contemplation is in any way "dangerous", so there's an apparent NPOV issue here. I suggest discussing in the body negative views on contemplation, not just linking to an alternate website. Maybe use that link as an example.Theli 93

I agree thoroughly about this piece failing minimal standards of scholarship. This article is remarkably biased and needs to be removed. It lacks objectivity and clearly seeks to promote one viewpoint. No alternative explanations are given and the writer presents highly judgemental conclusions without substantiating evidence. This is the poorest article that I have seen on Wikipedia.

I'll reformat a little bit to try to make it work. Any changes to my writing by anyone are, of course, appreciated. Theli 93

This article makes the claim that contemplative prayer and centering prayer are the same, and then gives the method of centering prayer as its description. In fact, in the Christian Tradition, the two are strongly distinct: centering prayer is a form of mental meditation, where contemplative prayer is a prayer of the soul. I can give a drastic re-write of this section if I don't hear any complaints.

Additionally, this article claims that contemplative prayer was in decline after the 14th century. To the contrary, it experienced wide acclaim in the 16th century do to the writings and works of St. John of the Cross and St. Therese of Avila, and remained a principal form of prayer in certan Christian groups before Thomas Merton's influence. Threej_lc

Actually you are wrong. Centering prayer and contemplation are precisely identical. Please see the articles on the monastery website at the bottom. If you can provide sources that point to a revival of contemplation during the dominance of scholasticism, please change that - as it is I am keeping things as they stand. Theli 93

I haven't found any reference on Wikipedia of modern/conteporary contemplatives, most notably Jens Soering, whose writings on the subject of Centering Prayer and Centering Pratice have been noted by Basil Pennington and Thomas Keating, among others. His manual, The Way Of The Prisoner, is a major contribution to the study of CP. I would start an article on Soering, but I fear the inevitable concentration on his incarceration and the Haysom murders. Cravenmonket 23:05, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Threej_lc: contemplative prayer is far older and more established than centering prayer. According to T. Keating, one of the founders of the centering prayer movement: "It is not contemplation in the strict sense, which in Catholic tradition has always been regarded as a pure gift of the Spirit, but rather it is a preparation for contemplation by reducing the obstacles caused by the hyperactivity of our minds and of our lives" (http://www.centeringprayer.com/intimacy/intimacy01a.htm). David Chiang 02:02, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Also, how can it be said that contemplation suffered decline from the scholastic period through the 20th century when St. Teresa of Avila and St. John of the Cross, two of the most significant exponents of contemplative prayer, lived in the 16th century? I don't understand this point. David Chiang 02:07, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

I see, the history section is drawn from the Centering Prayer literature and is essentially a history of the roots of Centering Prayer. Since "Centering prayer" is the more precise term and even at least one of its proponents is careful to point out the difference between centering prayer and contemplative prayer, I am going to move most of this article over to Centering prayer (which already exists but is very short) unless someone objects.... David Chiang 14:37, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Shlagbaum and Szweizer

With all due respect, please note that:

• the link is to a page asking for money
• the book is self-published
• the reference was provided by one of the authors

I do not think this is consonant with Wikipedia's policies. David Chiang 22:39, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Moved comment

I have removed this comment from the article, as it seemed to belong here better:

The later list is incorrect. St Teresa and St John both had seven level of contemplative prayer. The first three levels have to do with finding God, gaining knowledge, and recognizing what in this world creates a boundary that limits the closeness that we can have with God. They are a purification of the body and the will. After recognizing the boundary, we must overcome the boundaries so that we can be open the the next four levels. The top four levels are spiritual and contain charismata that are given individually as God knows best. A level seven contemplative will have all the gifts God bestows. Between each Level, a person will go through a dark night of the soul that can last a day, or many years. It is a difficult time where the conscience thirsts for God because He is unrecognizable in daily life. It is at these times that He is working deep in our hearts, cleansing our souls, and preparing us for the next gift He desires to share.

John Carter (talk) 17:32, 4 May 2008 (UTC)