Talk:Constanze Manziarly

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[edit] Antonescu's cook

Marshall Antonescu (leader of Romanian Fascist Legionary Government) recommended Miss Manziarly to Hitler. He had stomach problems, too, and she was his diet-cook. So in 1943 she moved from Bucuresti to Germany, what can be read in Traudl Junge's Book, which was the story for the film Der Untergang (The downfall). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.186.123.65 (talk) 23:18, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What happened to Constanze Manziarly?

I know that most accounts say that after the final breakout from the Fuhrerbunker that Manziarly was separated from the rest of the group, and never seen again. In the movie Downfall she's shown sitting amongst the rubble, with a look of utter despair on her face, at which time she produces one of the small brass cylinders containing the cyanide vials that her contemporaries were using at the time (the same kind that the movie shows Hewel holding, which he said was given to him by Hitler, etc.), and then it leaves it at that, the rest up to the imagination of the viewer.

Does anyone have any notion what-so-ever of what happened to her? Was she likely killed and her body buried as "unknown" in an unmarked or mass-grave? Was she taken by the Soviet's as one of the many "personal prisoners" that they abducted at the time? Are there any eyewitness or other accounts of where she wound up, what happened, etc.? Did anyone ever put any effort in to locating her, as they did with the others (such as Borman, etc.)? I know that she wasn't as impactful as Borman or Mueller but I would think that people would have been curious about her ultimate disposition and would have tried to find out. It seems to be one of the last unsolved mysteries of WWII.

Any info would be appreciated (and should probably be added to the article). Thanks in advance! Srajan01 04:56, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Hello Sargan01. Your film "Der Untergang" created fictional endings for the women in the film who were captured and repeatedly raped by Red Army soldiers (including Traudl, Christian and Krüger). Re-read Traudl's 2002 quote on this article's main page. She is saying, though not explicitly because that would be crass, that Constanze was likely raped by those two soldiers. They or later rapists are also her likely killers, although there is no shortage of deaths awaiting a lone person in a war zone in the uniform of a combatant. I'm sorry to say that this is not a "great unsolved mystery", rather it was shockingly common -- about 2m women were raped during the Soviet occupation of Germany until 1948, this lead to the death of about 10% of the victims (see the analysis by Antony Beevor in "Berlin: The Downfall 1945"). The article does not need augmenting, as it already quotes the only definitive source of Manziarly's last moments known to humanity. Sorry to be the bearer of such distressing news. Gdt 14:35, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

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It was more than 10 % deaths, for many committed suicide before the ordeal in expectance of the coming torture and many did so afterwards. Many got infected with letal diseases, too, which could not be cured as there was no medicine.

So if 10 % (t.i. 200.000 women, girls and ladies) were actually raped to death on the spot and thus killed by the russian liberators, that 's just a "small" part of the desaster no one should talk about in Germany even today. Feminists are blind on one eye it seems. ILSA

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—Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.186.123.65 (talk) 23:27, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

I should add that if you are wondering why there is not much effort in Manziarly's "ultimate disposition" it is because of the likely manner of her death. Germans have been reluctant to dwell upon the Red Army's rape of their women. In any case, whilst the GDR existed an investigation would be difficult -- it would be anti-Soviet activity and a confirmation of neo-Nazi beliefs, attracting the attention of the Stasi. Check the index of Fest's and Beevor's books. If you wish to look further, then the USSR and GDR archives would be a good start: both governments took a great interest in the last days of the Führerbunker as both regimes were afraid of a rebirth of Nazism via one of the bunker occupants. Although after Beevor's book sensitivities of the custodians to accusations of rape may be too high. Gdt 14:55, 28 October 2007 (UTC)