Talk:Conservative Party (UK)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Conservative Party (UK) article.
Please sign and date your posts by typing four tildes (~~~~). Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Ask questions, get answers. This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject.	Be polite Assume good faith No personal attacks Be welcoming	Article policies No original research Neutral point of view Verifiability
Archives: 1, 2

Politics Portal This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Politics of the United Kingdom , a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of politics and government within the United Kingdom. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. Please also feel free to join in the discussions on the project's talk page.

	This article is part of WikiProject Political parties, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of political parties-related topics. Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to "featured" and "good article" standards, or visit the WikiProject page for more details. [View this template]
Portal
B	This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale.
Top	This article has been rated as top-importance on the importance scale.

Contents 1 Election box metadata 2 High-profile supporters of the Conservative Party. 3 Current policy review 4 Logo 5 David Cameron Entry 6 2005 election slogan 7 Conservative and Unionist Party 8 Libertarian? 9 Requested move

[edit] Election box metadata

This article contains some sub-pages that hold metadata about this subject. This metadata is used by the Election box templates to display the color of the party and its name in Election candidate and results tables.

These links provide easy access to this meta data:

• Template:Conservative Party (UK)/meta/color Content:    
• Template:Conservative Party (UK)/meta/shortname Content: Conservative

Conservative Party (UK) has had a peer review by Wikipedia editors which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article.

Archives

/Archive 1 – Nov 2001 to Sept 2006 /Archive 2 - October 2006 to May 2007 Peer Review – June 2005

[edit] High-profile supporters of the Conservative Party.

I’m frankly appalled by the lack of credibility in this section. Moreover there are no sources to back up the claims made is this section. For example Alan Sugar is a noted supporter of the Labour party! There is sourced evidence that he donated £200,000 to Labour in 2001. It is my belief that all apparent high-profile supports be deleted until sources ratifying the claims are found. I feel that this would ensure the credibility of wikipedia.

Given Ray Davies' general left wing views, I doubt whether he has ever been a committed Tory. His Tory vote in 1974 probably had to do with his oft expressed dislike for Harold Wilson. Davies voted for Michael Foot in 1983 over Thatcher, so I highly doubt he's a big supporter of the Party.

I added the section some months back because there was already such a section on the Labour Party page and I figured if the Labour page has one, so should the page on the Tories (not that I am a Tory, far from it, I just did it in the interests of fairness and consistency). However I pointed out over on the Labour talk page that the lists look silly on the main pages of the parties, it's trivial information and clearly dosen't belong and the suggestion made - which other users who discussed the matter agreed with - was that the information should be shifted to it's own page. However nobody did this, and the Labour list has since been deleted without discussion by another user who chose to completely ignore the talk page. Bearing that in mind, feel free to delete or move it to its own page, in fact just delete if you like, if someone wants to create the page at a later date the information is archived in the page history. While the infomation is trivial, I myself and others I know have gone looking for comprehensive lists of famous figures who have funded/supported the two major parties and none can be found, so there is a case for pages with this information on Wiki but it's hardly a priority. However I agree that it obviously needs to be sourced - I intended to add sources for the names I originally put up there but never got around to it and no-one else has bothered. Since then, numerous other names have been added unsourced, such as Freddie Mercury and Mick Jagger, these people may have voted Tory but I've never heard of it. I was astonished to see Harold Pinter added, but having checked this out it is actually true, he did vote Tory in '79, he has admitted this in interviews. Alan Sugar has indeed donated to Labour but he did support and donate to the Tory Party in the 80's and this can easily be sourced, he shifted his support to Labour when Blair took over. As for Ray Davies, I added his name and the source is a book called 'Rebel Rock' by John Street. He states that in 1974 the Musicians Union sent out requests to all it's famous rock and pop star members asking for them to help campaign for a Labour victory, and they recieved only two responses, one from Alan Price offering to help, and the other from Ray Davies explaining that he would not be assisting as he was voting Tory. I agree that Davies is almost certainly not a Conservative and was only voting Tory that year over some specific issue or unhappiness with Labour which is why I added the qualification that there is no evidence that he is a committed Tory, which I strongly doubt. In any case, as I say feel free to delete it, if the info stays, it should be moved to it's own page and properly sourced for each name on the list. MarkB79 12:39, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Delete them both (and any others). There are some celebrities who are party members and can be found at fundraising events and, more occassionally, fronting Party Political Broadcasts, as well as a few who go into politics (Seb Coe, Gyles Brandreth and Esther McVey are the main ones who spring to mind in recent years) but I suspect most of the celebrity backers are just people who've said in interviews that they support the party, which can often mean little more than voting for it. And some of the people listed seem to have voted for it only once or twice. Timrollpickering 18:40, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

All of these high profile party supporter sections should be deleted. They serve no real purpose, other than the fact it's a POV raising subject, and could also inadvertantly cause any neutrals reading to deter from a party because of a celebrity they dislike on the list. It's ridiculous!

[edit] Current policy review

I am surprised that there has been no mention on here of the current policy reviews within the party, especially the recent reports by Iain Duncan Smith and John Gummer. I will add more detail on this when I have time, unless there are any objections.

I will also continue to remove links to BNP and Nazi websites which various wags put into the article on a semi-regular basis. I cannot see the relevance. SupernautRemix 15:35, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Logo

I didn't know the Tories change their logo to a Tree!? That one passed me by. I would have thought it a rich vein for ridicule. Jooler 11:41, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] David Cameron Entry

I'm not comfortable with the sentence "More recently however Gordon Brown has re-asserted his lead over the Conservatives".

The sentence says it about Gordon Brown, not about the Labour Party. This implies that Gordon Brown as leader had a lead that he then lost, and has since regained. This is not the case.

Would it not be more accurate to say something like: "More recently, since Gordon Brown was selected as Prime Minister and Leader of the Labour Party on XXX date, the Labour Party has pulled ahead of the Conservative Party in the opinion polls."

Would it then be a POV to make a comment about new leader bounces? Any thoughts? Wikifellow 18:35, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 2005 election slogan

"The campaign - based around the slogan,"It's not racist to impose limits on immigration. Are you thinking what we're thinking?" - was designed by controversial Australian pollster Lynton Crosby"

This is not true. The official election slogans were "Are you thinking what we're thinking" and "Take a stand on the issues that matter". "It's not racist to impose limits on immigrantion" was the slogan of a poster, not the central message of the campaign as the article seems to suggest. I will ammend this. 213.121.151.174 23:38, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Conservative and Unionist Party

Is this really the Party's official name? I know that it is in Scotland, but as far as I am aware it was dropped in England many years ago.193.195.75.20 (talk) 15:59, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

It's formally registered as "Conservative and Unionist" - see the party's entry on the register of parties. Unionist is ocassionally still used on the odd document or advert (and some members will come out with "we are the Conservative and Unionist party" in opposition to anything they see as an anti-Union policy), and some local associations do make use of it in their title. Timrollpickering (talk) 16:12, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Libertarian?

The Tories just ain't Libertarian! I know it's very modern right now to call oneself Libertarian, but the Conservative Party isn't (ok there may be one or two Libertarians in the party)--84.164.240.26 18:31, February 23, 2008

The Conservatives are quite libertarian - small government, etc. David (talk) 19:03, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

The Conservatives as a party are not libertarian, they have one libertarian MP that I know of (Alan Duncan) but just because the party is economically liberal it doesn't make them libertarian as a whole. Their policies on immigration, for example, are not what you would typically label libertarian but conservative.--Johnbull (talk) 19:31, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

they do have 'libertarian conservative' instincts these days, such as the opposition to ID cards, I don't think immigration is a defining issue for libertarians, as it is for social liberals. Joe —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.97.10.232 (talk) 17:24, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

"Libertarian" currently only occurs once in the article, contrasting Michael Portillo with other supporters of Thatcher. Frankly anything about any party's philosophical position beyond what it states itself to be should be based on analysis by recognised political scientists, not on individual Wikipedians' understanding of both the party and philosophy - that approach is the classic definition of original research. Timrollpickering (talk) 17:56, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

This is an article about the British Conservative Party, and in Britain "libertarian" refers to civil libertarians rather than US-style economic libertarians, so the word is not appropriate. A libertarian in Britain would be someone who supported the legalisation of drugs, gay marriage, freer immigration, the devolution of power, etc. More often than not these people are on the left of the political spectrum (traditionally, they have been socialists), although there are some New Conservatives who show libertarian inclinations (Portillo, Alan Duncan). The only notable libertarian policy the Conservative Party has is opposition to ID cards. Contrasting with this is the strongly authoritarian policies that characterised the Conservatives under Margaret Thatcher and John Major, and which still underpin their policies (all that stuff about telling people what sort of families they should have, for instance). 92.12.213.254 (talk) 10:51, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Go on Google Books, search Conservative Party and Libertarian and you will find MANY books which identify key aspects of libertarianism as one of the major ideologies defining the party throughout its history. The Wikipedia article on Libertarianism is sufficiently detailed as to show which section the party does identify with if noone can be bothered putting it into this article. Harlsbottom (talk) 11:09, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

The distinction between British and American libertarians is inaccurate. American libertarians oppose government action and regulation in all but the most limited situations. An American libertarian would support decriminalisation or legalisation of drugs and would be more likely to support eliminating legal marriage than providing for gay marriage. That some people assume the mantle of libertarianism based on economic views without regard to social issues are misusing the term. -Rrius (talk) 20:40, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

If anyone can properly reference 'Libertarian', using reliable sources, then fine (WP:VERIFY). But it seems pretty obvious to me that that is just pants. Yes, some members are Libertarians, but the party itself? No way. --Mais oui! (talk) 14:00, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

And you reference for that would be...? Harlsbottom (talk) 14:06, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

You misunderstand: it is the people who wish to add 'Libertarian' to the article who must properly reference it, per WP:WIKIFY. No WP:RS = no 'Libertarian' in the Infobox. Simple as that. --Mais oui! (talk) 14:36, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

And since no-one else has bothered, I may as well add a section on it. However, your view "that is just pants" hardly seems to be informed. Harlsbottom (talk) 14:42, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

I absolutely disagree with calling the Conservative party 'libertarian' in the infobox, I would only think it was justified a mention somewhere else in the article, IFF there was a reliable mainstream reference stating that it is one of their doctrines (i.e. not just a passing mention or that one policy is libertarian). Even if it can be proven that the party in general has some libertarian policies, it wouldn't deserve a place in the infobox as it isn't the main (or one of two main) wings of Tory ideology. 217.44.234.78 (talk) 15:07, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move