Talk:Confessional Lutheran

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"Quia-Quatenus"

It is common for self-styled Confessional Lutherans to accuse other Lutherans of holding a "quaetenus" view of confessional documents. The constitution of the LWF, however, states: The Lutheran World Federation confesses the Holy Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments to be the only source and norm of its doctrine, life and service. It sees in the three Ecumenical Creeds and in the Confessions of the Lutheran Church, especially in the unaltered Augsburg Confession and the Small Catechism of Martin Luther, a pure exposition of the Word of God." (http://www.lutheranworld.org/Who_We_Are/LWF-Constitution.pdf) The ordination rite of the LBW (Occasional Services, p. 194, has the ordinand say: The Church in which you are to be ordained confesses that the Holy Scriptures are the Word of God and are the norm of its faith and life. We accept, teach, and confess the Apostles', the Nicene, and the Athanasian Creeds. We also acknowledge the Lutheran Confessios as true witnesses and faithful expositions of the Holy Scriptures."

In other words, these churches also consider themselves to be "confessional", and not merely in a "quatenus" sense, though they may be accused of de facto holding such a stance by more conservative Lutherans. Janko 15:17, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

"Confessing Movement"

I removed this reference because of its irrelevance. One might comment that a group might use "confessing" or "confessional" as self-reference when they feel that a status confessionis has arisen, such as the "Confessing Movement" about homosexual clergy or the "Confessing Church" against so-called "German Christians" under National Socialism, but otherwise, this reference is confusing, since the "Confessing Movement" is pandenominational and centered on a particular issue. Janko 11:29, 30 July 2006 (UTC)Janko

[edit] POV

I have tried to remove a great deal of POV from the article (mostly against the "mainline" side, but also one phrase that seemed a bit unfair to the "confessional" position). I ask others (especially Lutherans, who doubtless know more of the finer points) to do whatever they can. Carolynparrishfan 15:46, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. Still, this article fails to account for the claim of many "mainline" Lutheran churches (a better expression might be "LWF member churches"), which is that they do accept and live according to the Book of Concord. Specifically, the ELCA and the state churches of Sweden and Finland say this in their constitutions, in contrast to the various German church bodies which apparently changed their confessional basis after WWII. To truly understand the position of the "confessional Lutherans" as identified by this article, it seems necessary for a reader to know that virtually all Lutherans consider themselves "confessional." In that sense, the debate is largely hermenutical. Michael Church.64.105.72.167 (talk) 16:21, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Confessional vs confessing

I wondered if there was any connection to the anti-Nazi Confessing Church, which after all was also within Lutheranism. (Other movements with "confessing" in their name are not such a problem, since they're not particularly Lutheran.) The comment above by Janko suggests that there is no connection, but if this is a common confusion, then it would be useful to have that stated clearly in the article. (I don't want to write anything myself, since I have only circumstantial evidence for any conclusions.) --Toby Bartels 19:34, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

No, there is no connection, although there are some Confessional Lutherans who look to writings of individuals in the non-Confessional "Confessing Church" for inspiration.--Epiphyllumlover 03:47, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't believe it is sufficient to refer to the Confessing Church as "non-Confessional" as its constituent members adhered to the Book of Concord. The Confessing Church, however, is better characterized as a movement within the Evangelical Church of Germany during the Kirchenkampf (Church Struggle) that accompanied the rise of the Nazis to power. 67.160.161.176 (talk) 06:56, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Harmony with related article

This topic seems to be related to Confessionalism (religion). We should work to bring the two articles into a better relationship with one another. Fishal 20:05, 26 June 2007 (UTC)