Talk:Concordia College and University

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[edit] Dog 'degree' bears no similarity to degrees awarded by Concordia

Judge Michael Kelbley said he felt compelled to set some matters straight, particularly comparisons that were made before the trial between Chief McGuire's bachelor's degree from Concordia College and University and one obtained by a local radio station for John I. Rocko AKA Rocko, Fostoria's police dog.

"This court finds no similarity between those two degrees," the judge said. "McGuire earned his degree," Judge Kelbley said, adding evidence presented during four days of testimony last week".

Yet ANOTHER evidence that this WikiPedia article about a Concordia College and University discusses the wrong Concordia.

The author or slander against Concordia College & University makes them liabled for damages against that School. [1]


Source: http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070516/NEWS02/705160412

  • To be clear, there is no indication that the dog and the chief got a degree from different schools. Indeed, the judge ruled that the chief earned his degree, which he may well have earned it by Concordia standards, via transfered credits and life experience. The rub is that Concordia gave the dog a degree too, showing that Concordia does not verify the legitimancy of life experience. Note that until recently, Concordia promised a 12 hour turnaround on degrees, obviously no background check can be done that quickly. You may well have legitimate life experiences which make you as well quailifed for jobs as someone with a similar degree from a traditional college. It would behoove Concordia to operate more legitimately and openly. For starters, they should change name to something that is not intentionally similar to established colleges. Then they should make sure they actually investigate whether the life experiences submitted by their "students" are real.
  • To be clear there is only evidence that the chief and the dog got a degree from different places: It was because of the attention McGuire's degree received that prompted judge Kelbley during the reading of his not guilty decision Tuesday to say the two degrees were not similar. Kelbley said, during the court proceedings and the trial, the two degrees were never tied in together.
    • Not similar does not equal from different places. Bcostley 04:59, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

http://www.advertiser-tribune.com/News/articles.asp?articleID=8217

I cannot see how a WikiPedia nickname user can reasonably claim to have EVIDENCE that the Court had not, after it investigated the authenticity of both sets of documents for months.

Next issue : when and where did this Concordia ever promise a 12 hour turnaround on degrees? Their website states that they have a 12-24 hour turnaround on portfolio assessment requests and a 20 day turnaround on the decision to actually award a degree. Quite a difference. Background checks do not take more than 24 hours, any human resource manager will agree. Subscription software like NetDetective and the likes allow any HRM, school, or other interested party to verify the larger part of a person's background in only a few hours.

The website itself in May 2006, second line: "Distance Learning Degrees with Government Recognize Accreddation in 12 Hours" Bcostley 04:59, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

As for your argument that Concordia's name would be similar to that of established colleges: the name Concordia College and University became this Concordia's legal trademark with the World Intellectual Property Organization's office in Liberia in 1999, two years before e.g. Concordia International University in Estonia opened up shop. Six years before the now defunct Concordia spoof in the Dominican Republic started to show its ugly face on the internet. If after 8 years of existence you will not consider a college operating under its own trademark established, then again you're only proving that your own sentiments have taken over from your intelligence. You'll still be saying the same thing after 10, 20 and 50 years.

    • I'm talking about the Concordia in places like Montreal, Minnesota, and Wisconsin. Bcostley 04:59, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

This name (Concordia) is in common use around the world. Some schools are accredited, some are unaccredited but operating legally and some do not really exist. http://www.osac.state.or.us/oda

Therefore the term established does not even apply in the case of common names used internationally like Concordia, Saint Paul,, (College--School) of our Lord, Open university, etcetera. The common use of names used for centuries implies that such name cannot reasonably be deemed more established when used by any of the parties involved. Disregarding simple facts such as these while getting emotional about the subject should disqualify you from editing articles in an open encyclopedia.

[edit] Violation of WikiPedia's policies, blocking editors from editing!?

Who are you fooling by adding a note saying This page is currently protected from editing until disputes have been resolved. Protection is not an endorsement of the current version.?? It actually means that you were unable to prove your point, reverting again and again to publishing your article about the Concordia 'diploma mill' which was an entirely different, and now defunct, scam in the Dominican republic. Yahoo returns 67+ results when researching Concordia College and University: seven (7) sites discussing the diploma mill, more than 60 discussing this (genuine) Concordia College and University.

There's actually no point (at all) in trying to link an accredited online school to a fake website, which has been closed down by the FTC already in 2006.

Live with it! Your version was and is just WRONG by all means. How many people out here already suggested to create a NEW WikiPedia entry about the fake 'Concordia' spoof, detaching the new entry from the genuine Concordia entry!? The easiest way to prove your inconsistency is by blocking other people's additions. Great work, your Majesty...!

  • The anonymous author of the above remark (posted from IP 87.66.113.250), who is apparently committed to getting credibility for CC&U, may want to work on basic competence in geography. Dominica is not the same place as the Dominican Republic. --orlady 04:24, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
  • The anything but anonymous author of the above remark is a CCU graduate herself. I know what I have been through to finally get my degree, my employer is fully aware of how I obtained it and he backs me for the full 100%. Dominica is not the Dominican Republic, but the convicted psychologist did get her bogus degree from the now defunct Concordia website in the Dominican Republic.

Not from the accredited Concordia C&U in Dominica.

Source : http://www.answers.com/topic/louise-wightman

      • Fox authoritive?? What a short memory you seem to have. Fox was the station that made up the graphics about so-called nuclear weapons that Iraq had, Colin Powell used them to justify the Bush administration's deployment. I'd rather trust the Boston Globe : Wightman bought a doctorate online from the Dominican Republic-based Concordia College. Not from the legit Concordia College and University in Dominica. http://www.boston.com/news/globe/city_region/breaking_news/2007/04/former_celeb_st.html?p1=MEWell_Pos4
        • LOL, if you are going to misquote an article, it isn't wise to provide the URL to easily prove the mis-quote. Bcostley 05:03, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
"I was very shaken up," Wightman wrote, adding that she withdrew from school several weeks later. It's a decision Wightman now regrets. But she doesn't apologize for purchasing her doctorate from Republic of Dominica-based Concordia College & University, an online institution that is not recognized by the state of Massachusetts and boasts on its website that it can deliver a degree in a matter of days. She says she thought it was legitimate. "I saw it," she wrote, "as the only way to salvage all those years in school."
--orlady 03:37, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Adult Education Journal

Note: refers to the 03:22, 6 May 2007 87.66.119.153 version of the article.

What exactly is the Adult Education Journal? It does not appear to be notable.

Reply by humble me :
It's a printed newspaper, distributed every first week of the month on Montana campuses. That's where I get it from. Sincerely I have no idea if it is 'notable' enough or not, but they have good articles often cited in classes. Lots of stuff about postgraduate programs, about Thomas Edison, Concordia C&U, WG University and other online options. Possibly too local to be 'notable', sure, but they're okay. They provide some viable options for women my age who try to combine jobs, education and (a wish for) children.
The editor is Diana Goldenthal, one of our jewish Professors. (Naah, pls don't open a new discussion on religious topics please...!).
- Karen. [posted by IPuser 87.66.119.153]

  • If the publication is currently distributed and read on U.S. campuses, I find it curious that web searches suggest that "Adult Education Journal" was published from 1942-1950 (see this link) when it was succeeded by Adult Education Quarterly. Equally curious is the fact that I get no Google hits on "Diana Goldenthal," "Diana Goldenthaal", "Diane Goldenthal", "Dianne Goldenthaal", or any other variant spelling I have tried.--orlady 12:25, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
  • The response was certainly vague. What Montana campuses? Where is Diana Goldenthal a professor?Bcostley 20:30, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed merger with Concordia College & University

  • Question Are these really the same entity? What is the evidence? --orlady 20:41, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Response No, they are not. I myself graduated from *this* Concordia (@intec.edu) back in 2000. They were and still are licensed in Nevada and in Indonesia, no mention at all about Dominica or Dominica Republic (disambiguation). They even provide a warning link to the fake Dominican website themselves, so I don't really see why the two should be mixed up in one entry. I already suggested to other higher profiled members here to create two separate Wikipedia entries. One about the real one that I and many others graduated from, and one about the spoof. But I just get overruled again and again... I agree that you SHOULD write about the Dominican spoof, but preferably not in an article that supposes to address the real Concordia. Thanks :-)
    • CC&U is licensed in Nevada? Why is it not listed on The Northwest Association Of Schools And Colleges website (http://www.nwccu.org/)? The Northwest Association Of Schools And Colleges is the regional accrediting association which covers Nevada. I'm intestered in your "degree." Did you get in within the 12 hour turnaround that the CC&U website until recently promised?

Also, if this "place" is really in Nevada, why does it have a French Territory email address?Bcostley 04:54, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

  • And why do the various websites say "Concordia College & University is a legally licensed telematically conducted degree granting international institution in the Caribbean Commonwealth, subject solely to the jurisdiction of the Eastern Caribbean Supreme Court."?--orlady 12:27, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Matter cannot be closed for as long as the contents and resources for a spoofed Concordia page continue to refer to the actual Concordia C&U. The argument that the spoofed page looks exactly like this one only proves the point: spoofed pages are always set up to look like the real thing. That's why they are spoofs!

[edit] Accredited?

Before claiming that this "school," which borrows its name from a legitimate school, is accredited you must provide sources. I will address these claims[2].
1)Concordia College and University is a not accredited according to every single legitimate source.[3] It is referred to as a diploma mill just to name a few:[4][5][6][7][8][9]
2) A dog has a degree from this place.[10]
3)If you noticed in the article it does mention the dubious Liberia claim, which cannot be verified.[11] The "sources" has no information. You need a WP:RS to claim it is "accredited" in Liberia. We do not have one. The supposed reference does not make any claims or have any text.
4) The Indonesian "reference"[12], not only links to a deadlink of the "univeristy", but the translated text:

Ketapang was the house of Concordia College & University, international correspondence the school was known by National Education. The student from all over the bend in the planet to Concordia because of causing their life experience to be changed in the level of the university that was known on the basis of the position assessor. The position was possibly considered by Concordia in the method kind. Respectively the piece separately possibly was gotten, or the position possibly it was thought completely because of the presence of pieces was needed, or the process of receiving the holistic figure possibly was used and the evaluation that was made on the basis of the whole impression student’s promoted the work. Normally that juru estimated Concordia worked together to show mufakat the measurement in their aspirations to present the level of the university that was known to the mature student by being enough the work experience and the life.

Thus, not a word about accreditation. It doesn't appear on this listed of accredited Indonesian schools and our Education in Indonesia doesn't show link given in this article as the proper/reference for the Education Ministry (see reference section). Arbustoo 05:49, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
Concordia College's accreditation can be found on their website, and in their Graduation Packages...You who defimate the character of a fine school ought to find something to do with your time. Really nobody cares what you negative opinions say. Rev. Levitt III —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.80.26.90 (talk • contribs)
The website's claims for accreditation are not a reliable source. Government agencies and newspapers are. There are no opinions in the article there are only facts. Lastly, I know of no "fine schools" that award degrees to dogs. Arbustoo 21:03, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
Do you believe every news story you read? You have biased news: Left Wing & Right news, and they each add their own political twist with persuasion to their political agenda when they report a story. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.80.26.90 (talk • contribs)
I believe these news articles. What reason do you have to not agree with them? Be specific. Arbustoo 01:36, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
68.80.26.90 - if you don't agree with Wikipedia's policy on reliable sources, then you should not be editing this article. Either comply with the rules here or don't participate at all. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 20:10, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
Reliable sources, John Broughton says. IMHO the Court's decision is a considerably more reliable source than whatever you think you should write:

It was because of the attention McGuire's degree received that prompted judge Kelbley during the reading of his not guilty decision Tuesday to say the two degrees were not similar. Kelbley said, during the court proceedings and the trial, the two degrees were never tied in together.

http://www.advertiser-tribune.com/News/articles.asp?articleID=8217

Clearly no dog degree awarded by Concordia. No matter how many times you continue to repeat that same nonsense made up by local newspapers. If John Broughton does not agree with Wikipedia's policy on RELIABLE sources then John Broughton should not be editing this article. Either comply with the rules or don't participate at all.

If I understand correctly, judge Michael Kelbley decided that two degrees were not similar. If degrees are not similar it seems they were issued by two different issuers. According to the article, the judge also said that McGuire earned his degree. If that’s true, it looks that judge recognizes McGuire’s degree as legitimate. So we have a court decision that there are two different entities (issuers) and degree from one of them is legitimate. We might think about CCU whatever we want but the article should be changed to include this information.--Jordan 777 08:43, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
They're not similar only in that Rocco worked like a dog for his degree. Good boy! Good boy! Take a bite out of crime... woof! There's nothing in that decision claiming that the documents were from different sources. --carlb 04:51, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] John I. Rocko

If I understand correctly, degree was actually issued to the person that identified himself as John I. Rocko – not to the dog. Concordia may be a diploma mill but it is possible to enroll to a fully accredited university using a false identity. According to the 1930 United States Federal Census a person called John Rocko was a resident of Los Angeles in 1930.--Jordan 777 00:42, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

According to my understanding the problem not that the dog enrolled, but that it had done enough work to graduate. I can not, however, think of any accredited universities that even would allow someone to enroll unless they produced a high school diploma or GED without meeting them in person and testing them. I guess the other explanation could be someone faked the dog's credentials and did the work for it. I guess we may find out if they dog ends up in court.------Watercleanerperson 01:45, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Read the Department of Education's website:" They do not accredit school, and they do not recognize foreign degree (Only Medical) from any country which is why the Degree gets Apostilled. All you Elementry writers with your CHARACTER ASSINATION & LACK OF UNDERSTANDING of INTERNATIONAL LAW or even DOMESTIC EDUCATION or FOREIGN EDUCATION out to write your FANTASY REVIEWS for COMIC BOOKS like MAD MAGAZINE. Rev. Levitt

Mad Magazine is certainly more credible than Concordia College and University. It has been in existence for about half a century and it has a long string of publications (including many books) to lend it respected academic stature. --66.102.80.239 12:29, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Globalization

IMO entire story about Concordia may help us better understand challenges of education system at the time of globalization. Accreditations that Concordia received from Indonesia and Liberia are probably authentic. I assume that the criteria for achieving such accreditation were the same as Concordia’s criteria for issuing degrees: money and “life experience”. However, the only legal reason that allows us not to recognize those degrees is that Concordia doesn’t have a campus or head office in those countries. (Concordia is incorporated in Dominica.) Question: what would happen if somebody register such kind of “university” and become accredited in the same country? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jordan 777 (talk • contribs) 01:01, 31 March 2007 (UTC).


I was thinking------The traditional scholars whom do not agree with Concordia College & University do not realize 70% of the learning is outside of the class room. These so called enlightened one believe one has to pay some instructor $150.00 an hour to teach College math, when you can go to the book store in the public and teach yourself-----------outside of the classroom;-) We are the true pioneers to what education is about! Not these stiff necked professors that think no one can learn without them receiving a pay check to lead you in the direction to becoming self taught anyways.

Personally I have a problem with CCU practice from ethical point of view, but I can’t find any argument against them from legal point. It’s not accredited in the USA – so what? They are not registered in the USA - foreign universities can't be accredited here. If it’s accredited in any other country it should be enough. They are accredited in Liberia and Liberian government authenticates their degrees with Apostille. We may denial authenticity of Liberian’s Apostilles but that battle was lost few years ago: Yes, they are authentic and we accept that authentication based on some international conventions. We may also complain that they are not registered in Liberia but in Dominica. However, how many legitimate businesses enjoy tax heavens around the world? If Liberia allows them to be registered out of country, that’s their own business.--Jordan 777 09:37, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
The purpose of notary or apostille is to verify that a document was signed by the person it purports to be the signatory. Nothing more. Apostilles are *not* in the business of accrediting universities or evaluating curricula. As for tax havens? Legit universities usually qualify as non-profit entities and are therefore treated favourably by tax laws in their own home countries. As such, I can't see this as a sensible reason for a 'school' in Dominica to have had to go to Indonesia (a country which does not even have English as an official language) to get 'accredited'. If this were real, why would it not be able to get accreditation in its home country? --carlb 04:47, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Apostilles are issued and signed by government officials. It’s not just personal signature that is certified by also the organization. If I understand correctly, Liberian officials are certifying not just CCU “degrees” but Statements of Accreditation, issued by their Ministry of Education. Liberian government accredited the “school” that is registered somewhere in tax heavens. That is the real problem. Diploma mills are up and running for decades, but always as unaccredited. For the first time, we have government accredited diploma mills and that is the new phenomenon.
(Re tax heavens and profits, there are some good for-profit schools in the USA. They received regional accreditations. Some good schools in third world are also created for profit. Re Indonesia and languages, it is not uncommon for private schools in poor countries to use English. That is the way to attract students looking to move out of country) --N Jordan 08:20, 16 November 2007 (UTC)


There's a factual error in an article.

Important note: Wikipedia's articles are edited by volunteer Internet users. What they state is not the official point of view of the Wikimedia Foundation.

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There's a factual error in an article.

Important note: Wikipedia's articles are edited by volunteer Internet users. What they state is not the official point of view of the Wikimedia Foundation.

People answering on mailing-lists and other email services also are volunteers. They do not have the resources to research information or correct articles; thus, it is useless to send them scientific papers, bibliographies or questions on the content. Please use the article's "talk page" as described below.

[edit] McGuire Case

{{editprotected}} The investigations section of the page should be changed to include the newset information:

In Ohio, Fostoria Police Chief John McGuire was found not guilty for using his CCU degree on his job application. In May 2007 the judge found out that he earned his degree. Also, the court found no similarity between McGuire's bachelor's degree from CCU and one obtained by Greg Peiffer under the name of John I. Rocko. (The person doesn’t exist, Rocko is Fostoria's police dog.)

The following link may be used for reference: http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070516/NEWS02/705160412

After that, the following paragraph should be removed: In February 2007, the paper reported that documents filed in a drug case showed that a police dog of the Fostoria police department had also received a bachelor of science degree in criminal justice from Concordia in 2006.[10] The dog's degree was planned to be used as evidence in the court trial, but the prosecutor noted "I don't think it's necessary to bring the actual dog"[11] A few weeks later it was revealed that the degree had not been awarded to the dog, but to a human. Greg Peiffer, general manager and president of Fostoria radio station WFOB, came forward as the actual purchaser of the degree, which he said was obtained with minimal effort.[12]

17:38, 25 June 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by N Jordan (talk • contribs)

This page is semiprotected; any username more than a few days old can edit it. There is no need for administrator assistance to edit this page. — Carl (CBM · talk) 00:06, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
I'll update the information on McGuire. As for removing the police dog information, you're going to need to justify that. There is nothing in the Toledo Blade story that you cite that indicates that any of the statements in the Wikipedia article regarding the dog are incorrect, and it's relevant regardless of what happened to McGuire. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 19:49, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
Thank you John. My suggestion for removing police dog information is based on fact that now we have the verdict and case is closed. The information about dog’s degree was false – “it was revealed that the degree had been purchased by Greg Peiffer” under the name of John I. Rocko. I would rather emphasize the fact that degree was issued without proper verification of identity. Re Louise Wightman, she was charged for practicing as a psychologist witout the required state license. That’s against the law even if you have Ph.D. from prestigious accredited university. --N Jordan 17:02, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
I can't see how the degree being "purchased by Greg Peiffer" makes it more credible. After all, Greg's background is in radio, not criminology, so there is no relevant "life experience" here.
While Concordia C&U is on this list, a number of other questionable institutions also appear there. --66.102.80.239 05:23, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The "Intec.EDU" domain name

FWIW, the scammers behind this "college" are very motivated to keep an ".edu" domain because it gives them additional credibility. They used to have the concordia.eden.edu but I personally got that shut down. One of their tactics is to exploit weaknesses in how certain sites control their web domains. They are currently using this tactic to get http://www.concordia.intec.edu/ to point to them, even though they have no relationship whatsoever with the actual intec.edu. As a demonstration of this weakness, I have configured http://concordiascam.intec.edu/ to point to this very page (as of today). I am taking what steps I can to get Concordia kicked off the intec.edu domain, but do not know if I will be successful. - ConcordiaScam 19:55, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Looks like afraid.org just shut down any of the subdomains which were abusing services there. Their hostmaster doesn't put up with this nonsense once made aware of fraudulent abuse. I haven't tried contacting freewebs.com, you may want to consider getting in touch with them and with edu.tf's owners unonic.com (it's an ordinary free redirector service)?
The .intec.edu subdomain is was just a webframes trick, the actual page is [13]. They'd also been busy vandalising this page on aboutus.org, until some heartlessly mean 'ol admin locked it from editing. At one point they were redirecting www.wiki.pedia.nu (a subdomain of some joke domain, which they were redirecting through a FreeDNS service) and pointing it to a fake version of this page, here. That much is gone, although the destination pages still exist. Freewebs.com, a very esteemed, scholarly and professional university indeed. Thankfully, I got my advanced degrees from sorbonne.geocities.com *lol* --carlb 23:13, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
Their enrolment is hosted on an open web form service, the free (basic) version of http://formsite.com as [14]. It claims "Concordia College and University Enrollment Form: Please indicate your enrollment preferences and click the SUBMIT button at the end of this form. You will then be transported to our secure online payment gateway hosted by 2CO.com, or you may skip this step by clicking any of the above credit card logos. Upon receipt of your payment, your Concordia College graduation package will be shipped the same day and delivered to your indicated address within the next 12 to 15 days."
The 2checkout page lists:
1 ASSOCIATE's Graduation Program $ 534.02 CAD
2 BACHELOR's Graduation Program $ 643.00 CAD
4 DOCTOR/Ph.D. Graduation Program $ 1187.91 CAD
3 MASTER's Graduation Program $ 751.98 CAD
So pay $US1000 or its equivalent, become a doctor of philosophy the same day? This almost belongs on bjaodn.org or on one of the Uncyclopedias, it's so much of a joke. --66.102.80.239 12:49, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Looks like they've been booted from FreeDNS again. List of defunct FreeDNS domains to date: concordia.edu.ms, www.concordia.edu.ms, concordia.intec.edu, www.concordia.intec.edu, www.wiki.pedia.nu (the latter being a fake version of this article, identical to the version that is being repeatedly posted here as vandalism). I'm not sure why they would use a free server that is this strict on fraud and abuse - if their admin is notified of the problem, the subdomain is toast within a day. --carlb 15:06, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Intec addresses are no longer available as shared subdomains, due to abuse by CC&U. Nonetheless, this scam does appear to be still active on concordia.edu.tf, a unonic.com free redirection service. I've notified abuse at unonic com, now to see if they deal with this issue... --carlb 14:45, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

So far, no response from unonic.com - I've created concordiascam.edu.tf and redirected it here, looks like edu.tf as a redirector doesn't require anything more than an e-mail address and even then no requirement to respond to the automated e-mail it sends on successful registration. --carlb 16:40, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New bogus "sources" being added to article

The latest edits to this article by AlanSteele are using new (new to me, at least) bogus sources to legitimate them. Today I find http://www.north-american-liberty-party-edu.us/affordableedu.html ("North American Liberty Party", which seems to have entered the accreditation mill business in partnership with National Academy of Higher Education) and http://web.archive.org/web/20060113151052/www.e-technologycenter.com/email.htm ("The e-Real Estate School") listed as sources. I find it ludicrous that someone thinks these would be viewed as indicators of legitimacy, but I will revert the changes rather than let the article contain these absurdities. --Orlady 02:43, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm a little wary about the use of archive.org in this context; it is most often a legitimate and useful tool, but there is a probability that it's being used to hide (in this case) the not-so-minor detail that e-technologycenter.com/email.htm currently says "The Technology Center Institute is no longer associated with Concordia College and University. If you have not been redirected in the next 30 seconds please click here." This is bordering on silly, the Rhinoceros Party's platform of supporting higher education by building taller schools is more credible than any of the links now being used to legitimise the CC&U scam. --carlb 03:00, 15 September 2007 (UTC)