Talk:Compiler-compiler
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I think it might be useful to merge this article (Compiler-compiler) with the article on Parsers (subsection "parser generator"). (comment by Netizen 2003-10-31)
[edit] Compiler-Compiler vs. Metacompiler
Are "metacompiler" and "compiler-compiler" synonyms? I'm not sure, but I believe that a metacompiler is a selfcompiler, i.e. it can compile itself, so it's not equal to a "compiler-compiler". --surueña 10:14, 2005 Jun 18 (UTC)
- All compilers can compile themselves, since their grammar is deterministic/complete. By definition of the term "meta-" (read Gödel, Escher, Bach for a thorough explaination) a meta-compiler is a compiler-compiler and vise-versa. yacc is a meta-compiler. A meta-meta-compiler would be a compiler that creates compilers that compile something - dynamic/on-the-fly creation of compiler modules from the BNF/ontological syntax of a language/ontology included within a file, which in turn is used to compile the actual file.
- in short: Message, within a message, within the bottle. Project2501a 11:05, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
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- Yes, it seems that "selfcompiler" is the name of a specific compiler, but you know what I mean. But not every compiler can compile itself:
- Some specialized compilers (e.g. a lot of C compilers) only implements a part of the language, so small that they cannot compile themselves.
- A great bunch of compilers are implemented in another language. For example, when there is no compiler for a given language (every language has a first compiler, and of course it cannot be implemented in the same language), and for that languages which have a bad performance (the compiler would be very slow, so it is written in another language)
- In short, a compiler that can compile itself is a property worth noting, and I knew that "type" of compilers as metacompilers. But reading some pages it seems that somebody have another completely different meaning for metacompiling [3]. Do you know any source with a good definition? In my opinion, we shouldn't put that metacompiler is a synonym of compiler-compiler until we found more info about it. --surueña 12:34, 2005 Jun 18 (UTC)
- Yes, it seems that "selfcompiler" is the name of a specific compiler, but you know what I mean. But not every compiler can compile itself:
- hokay, are we talking computer science here or software engineering? "some specialized compilers" are the exception to the rule as afaik. that's software engineering. specific implementation of a compiler/set of bnf instructions. if we are talking computer science, then this is a non-issue: all compilers can compile themselves.
- when there is no compiler for a given language that's what a compiler-compiler/metacompiler is. it's a compiler that will give you your first compiler. it's like a candy-dispencing machine, only you insert BNF for coins.
- the page you mention still talks about metacompiling. using Forth to build a meta-compiler, basically to use forth to generate applications in meta mode. Good source with good definition? Knuth! and Hofsader! and yes, a metacompiler is synonym of a compiler-compiler ever since 1969, when yacc came around.
- what's your major, anyway? Project2501a 12:58, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
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- I don't understand your point. Actually I don't know whether the percentage of compilers that can build themselves is high or low, but it is a fact that there are compilers that cannot compile themselves. I don't understad the disntiction between CS or SE, but the fact is no every compiler can compile itself. Anyway, if you are sure that "metacompiler" is a synonym of "compiler-compiler" we should put it in the article, with those references. Hope this helps --surueña 08:28, 2005 Jun 20 (UTC)
- it's not a matter of percentages, it's a matter of compiler theory. Compiler theory is part of Computer science. if there are some compilers out there in the field, that do not compile themselves due to management/engineering decisions, it's a matter of applied computer science, aka Software engineering. Matter of fact is, the set of BNF instructions that makes up any given computer language, can always compile itself. Try it with a pen an paper. Computer science theory is about the data, as the computer science article says, not about the computer. something like organising information theory into patterns. Project2501a 12:18, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
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- OK, I understand now your point, thanks for the explanation. But although in theory every compiler can compile itself in practice this isn't true, and no Computer Science book can change that... :-) I try to find the name given to that type of compilers... --surueña 13:21, 2005 Jun 20 (UTC)
- well, yeah, see, an article on compilers of compilers/metacompilers/how ever you want to call it, falls under computer science. not software engineering, so, in this case, the practice is irrelevant, a note in the article, at best. Project2501a
Actually, hmmm...
Request to move to metacompiler
\{\{move|metacompiler\}\}
- Zanaq 5 July 2005 21:19 (UTC)Removed the request to move because:
- The consensus seems to be that a metacompiler and a compiler-compiler might not be the same.
- The google reveals "compiler-compiler" is the more common term. "Compiler Compiler" 114000 hits, metacompiler 763 hits
- I personally have heard compiler-compiler occasionaly, but not metacompiler.
Consensus has nothing to do about this, it's a matter of definition, look up your compiler theory book. So, metacompiler shows up less times that compiler-compiler. I will admit that the request to move to metacompiler was a bad idea. compiler-compiler is more popular. but still, char *compiler_compiler; char *metacompiler; compiler_compiler = metacompiler; Project2501a 5 July 2005 22:16 (UTC)
The history section looks a bit confusing, is there any example of a real compiler-compiler?
