Talk:Common bean

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[edit] Hello

I live in the UK and I'm really interested in getting hold of "black turtle bean"s to try in a recipe but i can't find them anywhere, anyone know a retailer that sells them, like tesco's (except I don't think tesco do them).--88.105.104.241 01:40, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What is a bean?

Or are they a "pulse" instead of a fruit? timl

I think we are talking about two different classification schemes, like orange versus warm. "Vegetable" is a rather loose term referring to plant products which are prepared as food in rather standard ways and are generally not very sweet. "Fruit" is a botanically precise term referring to a seed-bearing plant structure derived from the pistils and which may or may not involve other parts of the flower, and may not even be edible. Beans are both a vegetable and a fruit (and a pulse). Just my 2 cents. WormRunner | Talk 00:15, 23 Apr 2004 (UTC)

My understanding was that the botanical definition of the difference in fruit and vegetable is just that. The vegetative part of the plant if consumed is a vegetable and if the fruting body of the plant is consumed it is a fruit. Again this is the (Ithought) botanical classification. In the US, legalities for tax law and things of this nature have changed this from a legal standpoint. --Agrofe 14:55, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What is a haricot?

The article currently implies that haricot is a synonym of common bean, while baked beans implies that the former is a variety of the latter. Does anyone know better than I do?

Thanks, Pekinensis 21:13, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)

  • Haricot is another variety of Phaseolus vulgaris --nixie 21:36, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Phaseolus vulgaris domesticated independently in Eurasia?

Is there published evidence of this? - WormRunner | Talk 05:12, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

I have removed it for the moment. Such a surprising and symbolically important fact deserves references and further explication. — Pekinensis 15:17, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
Phaseolus vulgaris are new world beans. There are old world beans: Faba vulgaris (Faba), Cicer arietinum (Chickpea), Glycine max (Soy), Vigna angularis (Adzuki), Vigna radiata (Mung), Vigna unguiculata (Yardlong) ... [Ref: Cornucopia, Stephen Facciola, ISBN:0962808709]

[edit] What we need

WormRunner, thank you for working with me on this. I'm out of time right now, but I want to make a note that besides organizing the information we already have, we need to provide a description of the plant itself, as well as information on culture (days to maturity, soil requirements, area yield, ...). I'm sure there's more. — Pekinensis 02:21, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

Oh, and we need to merge from flageolet (bean). — Pekinensis 03:29, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

Merged, with help from an anonymous contributer. — Pekinensis 15:14, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Anonymous contributions

Thank you, anonymous contributer. I have retained or slightly reworded most of your changes, but removed the list of varieties grown for shell beans because I am familiar with most of those varieties as dry beans, a view that was confirmed by some quick google searching. — Pekinensis 15:36, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

I agree with that assessment. Most of the shell bean varieties are also dry bean and it is more a different use than a varietal thing. WormRunner | Talk 20:07, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Dry Bean types: Black (negro); Brown; Green; Mottled (pinto,anasazi); Pink (Santa Maria Pinquito, only grown commercially in Santa Maria, California, required ingredient in Santa Maria barbecue, also where tri-tip barbecue was invented); Red (kidney); White (Great Northern, Navy, Cannellini); Yellow (Sinaloa Azufrado); Popping (nunas)

Shell Bean types: Common, Flageolets, Half Runners, Cranberry

Snap (string) Bean types: Common, Haricot verts, Purple, Wax

Other Phaseolus: P. acutifolus (tepary), P. coccineus (runner), P. lunatus (lima)...

[edit] Citation Search: Black Bean Antioxidants

I don't know how to make citations, so I didn't want to resolve the "citation needed" for black bean antioxidant effects, but I did come across something of a pointer. If it's useful, then great: From http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=2 you can see a reference to a Journal of Agriculture and Food Chemistry article (or two) that support the claim that black beans are high in antioxidents.63.249.64.32 22:51, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

You could replace the "citation needed" by <ref>[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=14611168&dopt=Abstract M.G. Choung et al., Anthocyanin profile of Korean cultivated kidney bean (Phaseolus vulgaris L.)., J Agric Food Chem. 2003 Nov 19;51(24):7040-3.</ref>. But I'm not convinced that this article applies to black turtle beans and that the numbers they find are exceptional compared to other legumes. Han-Kwang 14:10, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
Please pardon my mildly boorish newness. Thank you for generously helping me understand when I couldn't muster the effort to decipher the citation guidelines. I can now contribute better.
I'm not convinced either, that the J Agric Food Chem article(s) apply to black beans in particular (or even legumes in general) though the whfoods.com article suggests so by its use. If only the article text(s) were easily available. I won't investigate further.
I wasn't under the impression that the text "Black turtle beans have recently been reported to be an extremely good source of nutritional antioxidants" meant so in opposition to other legumes rather than to foods in general. Perhaps in the context of an article on legumes it may be taken so. How does one recommend this be clarified (without actually doing the work)?  ;) Maybe it's best to let it be? Will it in time be removed for lacking citation?
Thanks again. 63.249.64.32 20:59, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
No problem. :) My example is one of the ways. You could even simply put [http://example.com/bla/] as a citation. If you use the <ref>...</ref> construction, you should make sure that there is a tag <references/> somewhere at the bottom of the page: that's where all the references will be listed.
In general, vague unreferenced and subjective ("extremely good") claims such as the one about black turtle beans don't really belong on Wikipedia, but after re-reading the website you originally mentioned, I think you could cite both the site and the abstract of the paper and try to summarize the main point that beans with certain skin colors are comparable to antioxidant-rich foods such as grapes and cranberries. It would also be good to make the claim a bit more NPOV. Han-Kwang 21:44, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

bruce

[edit] Taxonomic History

I am puzzled. I have been hearing for years that the common bean was an American import, like maize, potato, tomato and some others. Yet the taxon for it is phaseolus vulgaris. Phaseolus is a very old word, since new Latin borrowed it from the Greek. It means that there has been a plant, likely a fabacea, that has born this name since before there were emperors in Rome, yet, now, it is given to a genus that is said to originate in the New World. Can anyone tell me, or direct me to the correct article, to what plant(s) the word phaseolus/φασουλοσ may have been applied before 1500? I suspect the fava bean (vicia faba), but it may not be the only one. Thanks for helping, once known it may be worth a sentence or two on the main page (or at the general bean or phaseolus article). --Svartalf 19:00, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Soybean

Considering the importance of the soybean, it needs to have a paragraph here too. (I know there is a page about them.)67.172.182.35 08:04, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Check out bean for the many, many other plants called beans. -- WormRunner 02:03, 15 February 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Kidney Beans used by Romans! How could it come from America?

Kidney beans were planted and eaten by the Romans. I don't think they come from America as the article seems to indicate. Columella gives instructions on how to plant kidney beans in the first book of his work on Agriculture.24.6.23.138 01:03, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

I suspect that there is the same problem here as with the squashes/pumpkins. Kidney beans got their modern Latin name from scholars who identified them with the "phaseolus" of the ancients. Linnaeus followed these scholars in assigning the name, but whether they are actually the same species is open to dispute. It would not be the first time Linnaeus was wrong in assigning a name: he thoroughly botched the assignment of "Agaricus" to the common field mushroom (the true "agaricus" of history was a tree mushroom). Latin scholars (the ones translating Columella), and botanists may not be in agreement on this point - if it's like the pumpkins, then not all botanists agree, either.
The XVI and XVII century herbalists specifically designated a few varieties of Phaseolus as novelties of "Indian" origin, while treating of others as being so common as to be familiar to all (though whether they were the same "phaseolus" as those described by ancient historians was debated even then). Therefore, I tend to believe that they were known in Europe before the discovery of America (as I do with the pumpkins). In such a case, they were probably either Asian in origin (the ancient Greek writers, IIRC, described them as having come from the East) or else native to both Asia and the Americas.GSwift 03:19, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Drying beans

Does anyone know how fresh beans are dried? What is the method? How energy intensive is it? This is something that I have often wondered and if someone has the answers, I think the info is worthy of inclusion.--68.31.249.149 08:13, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

great quick resource (do NOT ignore the freezer step), but not encyclopedia worthy as a citation. You could get some great google search strings to find what you need, tho, from professional and academic sources.

http://www.ehow.com/how_8279_harvest-store-dry.html Kiwi 21:03, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] White kidney beans

White kidney beans should be mentioned in the article (but aren't). Badagnani 03:23, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Be bold, have fun, add what you feel is needed. -- Nashville Monkey 16:10, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
I just mentioned them as toxic. Ugh! They're also known as cannellini beans (which redirects here but as a distinct major food ingredient should be its own article). Wikidemo 16:25, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Excellent Online Resources on Beans

http://www.ciat.cgiar.org/ciatinfocus/beans.htm

http://www.animalrangeextension.montana.edu/articles/Forage/Species/Legumes/DryorCommonBean.htm

Kiwi 20:48, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Incorrectly designated "Common beans"

Faba Bean, Lentils, Chickpeas, Cowpeas - from what I have tracked down, these are not of the same genus and species. For all I know, there may be more. Like soybeans? Kiwi 20:55, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] How did Turtle Beans get that name?

Can somebody please explain why black "turtle beans" are called "turtle beans?" Do they taste like turtles or something?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.65.51.16 (talk) 19:45, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

They do taste meatier than other beans, but maybe they're called turtle beans because they look or feel like a turtle shell. Foobaz·o< 03:15, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ought to unmerge

Different types of beans should be broken out into their own separate articles. They're distinct in appearance, flavor, and culinary use. Different beans are native to different places, and are used differently in various cuisines. So, if you are working on a section and it looks like you have enough material to stand alone as an article, best to break it out. Don't forget to add citations, please! Pictures would be nice.Wikidemo 16:31, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Black beans aren't brown, afaik.

The image for black beans presents... brown beans?!? The black beans I know are consistently and thoroughly black.
But maybe there are brown varieties too? I've never seen them though.
Not on the "Brazilian feijoada", at least — which is not an uncommon dish here in Portugal. (Black beans aren't generally used in Portugal except for Brazilian dishes, and sometimes in chili.)
So, I ask/suggest if the image can be replaced with something more... characteristic. --portugal (talk) 20:00, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Those beans have been cooked, which might have leached some of the color out of them. But you're right, black beans aren't brown like that here in the USA either. Foobaz·o< 21:59, 11 March 2008 (UTC)