Talk:Commercial Data Systems

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[edit] British vs. Saskatchewan CDS

User:Freakchild, your recent edits to the Commercial Data Systems article have caught my attention. You claim that there are two separate companies named CDS, one of them a Saskatchewan-based consulting company, and one of them a British publisher of 8-bit games. May I ask the source of this information? I ask because I distinctly remember seeing a Saskatchewan address for the CDS game advertisements in COMPUTE!'s Gazette. From 1996 to 2000, I worked for DLC-West, the ISP which hosted the Saskatchewan CDS's website. During that period I personally e-mailed the Saskatchewan CDS to inquire about their line of Commodore games, and their response quite clearly indicated that they were the publisher. Here's a record of the conversation:

Date: Mon Aug 05 23:09:36 1996
To: comdata@dlcwest.com
From: Tristan Miller <millert@cs.uregina.ca>
Subject: Road Toad

Greetings.

Several years ago, I purchased from you the computer game Road Toad
for the VIC-20.  Unfortunately, my VIC has recently ceased operating,
leaving me unable to play this favourite game of mine.

I was wondering if you still happen to have any copies of Froggee,
which I understand was your Commodore 64 version of Road Toad.

If not, I would respectfully request when you plan releasing the DOS
or Windows version of Road Toad.

I would also be interested in purchasing any C64, DOS, or Windows
versions of Witch Way and Motor Mouse.

Your captive fan,
Tristan Miller

P.S. -- I have tried numerous times to reach you at your 525-3386
phone number, but it seems that I either get no answer or a modem/fax
handshake.  When I try to call with a modem, it connects at 1200 baud
but does nothing thereafter.  Is this phone number no longer valid or
does it still serve some purpose?

From ???@??? Tue Aug 06 17:59:41 1996
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Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 17:38:37 -0600
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To: Tristan Miller <millert@cs.uregina.ca>
From: Murray Coons <comdata@dlcwest.com>
Subject: Re: Road Toad

At 11:09 PM 8/5/96 -0600, you wrote:
>Greetings.
>
>Several years ago, I purchased from you the computer game Road Toad for the
>VIC-20.  Unfortunately, my VIC has recently ceased operating, leaving me
>unable to play this favourite game of mine.
>
>I was wondering if you still happen to have any copies of Froggee, which I
>understand was your Commodore 64 version of Road Toad.
>
>If not, I would respectfully request when you plan releasing the DOS or
>Windows version of Road Toad.
>
>I would also be interested in purchasing any C64, DOS, or Windows versions
>of Witch Way and Motor Mouse.
>
>Your captive fan,
>Tristan Miller
>
>P.S. -- I have tried numerous times to reach you at your 525-3386 phone
>number, but it seems that I either get no answer or a modem/fax handshake.
>When I try to call with a modem, it connects at 1200 baud but does nothing
>thereafter.  Is this phone number no longer valid or does it still serve
>some purpose?
>
>+--------------------------------------------------------+
>| "I am the antichrist!  Please buy my merchandise!"     |
>|                                            --J. Rotten |
>| Visit the Johnny Rotten Web Page:                      |
>|    http:/www.cs.uregina.ca/~millert/pistols/index.html |
>+--------------------------------------------------------+
>| This has been a public service message from Psychonaut |
>|        of the League for Spiritual Discovery           |
>|            email: millert@cs.uregina.ca                |
>+--------------------------------------------------------+
>
>
Tristan 

It's nice to have had someone get so much use out of the games.
Unfortunately, we haven't produced any games for at least ten years.  Oops,
I lied, I had an educational Amiga product that was almost a game about 5
years ago.  Since then I have focused on commercial software.  

We moved our location (and office) out of Regina to Emerald Park about 5
years ago.  The 525-3386 number was ditched at that time as were all
remaining leftover copies of any games.  I couldn't give them away so they
went to the dump.

I have often considered getting back into the games business but the market
has changed so much from the early days.  You pretty much have to spend six
months to a year in development with a team of about twenty individuals.  I
just couldn't finance that kind of a venture.

I'll do some looking around and if I find any untrashed copies, I'll give
you a dingle.

Thanks for the memories,

Murray

Date: Thu Sep 11 19:00:40 1997
To: Murray Coons <comdata@dlcwest.com>
From: Tristan Miller <tristan@dlcwest.com>
Subject: Re: Road Toad

Greeings.

At 17:38 06/08/96 -0600, you wrote:

>It's nice to have had someone get so much use out of the games.

Well, what can I say -- they don't make them like they used to.  I
agree with your thoughts on the currect games market.  Personally, I
think too many of today's games are techinically overengineered, with
much, much less thought and effort going towards important things such
as plot or enjoyability.  A game doesn't need fancy graphics and sound
to be fun -- a conviction which I'm led to believe I'm one of the few
left to hold.

>Unfortunately, we haven't produced any games for at least ten years.  Oops,
>I lied, I had an educational Amiga product that was almost a game about 5
>years ago.  Since then I have focused on commercial software.  

Ah, I see.  Were you the actual programmer for Road Toad, or would
that be someone else? If so, do you still have them on staff?  How big
is your operation now compared to thirteen years ago, if you don't
mind my asking?

>I'll do some looking around and if I find any untrashed copies, I'll give
>you a dingle.

That would be very much appreciated.  Actually, ironically enough, a
few hours after I wrote that message to you, I was at a FOAF's house
who happened to have a pirated copy of Froggee for the 64.  This may
be an extremely rude question, but in light of the circumstances,
would you mind too terribly much if I acquired a copy from this
person, at least until I receive a legitimate copy through you or
someone else?

Anyway, thanks for writing back.

Regards,
Tristan

From ???@??? Wed Aug 07 22:29:12 1996
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Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 18:38:43 -0600
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To: Tristan Miller <millert@cs.uregina.ca>
From: Murray Coons <comdata@dlcwest.com>
Subject: Re: Road Toad

At 06:14 PM 8/6/96 -0600, you wrote:

>Ah, I see.  Were you the actual programmer for Road Toad, or would that be
>someone else? If so, do you still have them on staff?  How big is your
>operation now compared to thirteen years ago, if you don't mind my asking?
>

Yup I'm the one who wrote Road Toad.  I had several other programmers
working for me at the time on other games (six or so) but I wrote most of
the Vic 20 stuff.  I found that I could actually make more money going solo
and didn't have the hassles.  So that's what I have done.  After the bottom
line has cleared, I actually make more money now than I did then even though
the gross revenues are substantially different.  I now split my time equally
between consulting and developing software to market.  

>That would be very much appreciated.  Actually, ironically enough, a few
>hours after I wrote that message to you, I was at a FOAF's house who
>happened to have a pirated copy of Froggee for the 64.  This may be an
>extremely rude question, but in light of the circumstances, would you mind
>too terribly much if I acquired a copy from this person, at least until I
>receive a legitimate copy through you or someone else?

Considering the circumstances, I figure there are about 100,000 other
individuals who have used and played it for nothing, so I doubt that one
more is going to significantly affect my bank balance.  Have fun.

Murray

Further evidence that the Saskatchewan CDS was the games publisher is that the head of DLC-West, Jim Nickel, was also involved with CDS and was personally acquainted with Kris Hatlelid, the composer of the music to Frantic Freddie. There are interviews with Kris available on the web which identify him as Canadian.

Now, it's possible that Murray Coons and Jim Nickel were lying, or it's possible that you're lying, or it's possible that I'm lying, or it's possible that both CDS companies produced 8-bit games. In the latter case then we'll have to sort out which games were produced by the Saskatchewan company and which were produced by the British company. —Psychonaut 03:14, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

A little Googling shows that CDS (Commercial Data Systems) and CDS Software are different companies, but they both published games. Hence the confusion. CDS definitely published Frantic Freddie, not CDS Software. Mirror Vax 03:36, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
If it's necessary to sort out who published what, I'm pretty sure Murray Coons is still around, so we could ask him. (The phone book has a listing for an M. Coons in Emerald Park.) Not sure if this would violate the "no original research" rule, but probably not, since we're just compiling a list. —Psychonaut 03:51, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
This is the Freakchild guy. Hi, I am relatively new to the WikiPedia, just thought I would say that - bear it in mind, I've tried not to mess edits up and think it's worked okay so far. I actually worked for (British) CDS Software from 1988 to 1990 and I am still in touch with the people who founded it. The list of games that they published on the page were theirs, although I cannot speak to Frantic Freddie. I have no knowledge of this game, but knowing CDS it sounds like a title of theirs and I wouldn't have singled it out. I am accepting of edits to remove that title and put it to the Saskatchewan CDS company title because it is probably correct. I apologize if this caused offence, but the CDS page that was, was largely incorrect in stating what appeared to be a page to the British company (the games listed were mostly theirs) as a Saskatchewan Company. At this stage it would be correct to keep the split listing of both companies as two pages (I did that, I think it's justified) and I can vouch for the British CDS page being factually correct (yet incomplete) as it stands now. Verification shouldn't be any effort although not all of their titles are listed on [mobygames]. -Freakchild 23:30, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Incidentally, Wordsearch, Dominoes and Castle Blackstar were published by the British CDS Software company. I converted Wordsearch and Dominoes to Amiga personally. Blackstar is verified here http://tzxvault.retrogames.com/c.htm. I note that these titles remain listed under the Saskatchewan company too. I can't say whether or not they too published titles with similar names so I won't remove them. I believe my edits thus far do not violate the 'no original research rule' Freakchild 23:40, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your contributions. There was definitely a mix-up which you identified. Mirror Vax 00:35, 11 January 2006 (UTC)