Talk:Colmar Pocket

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Additional information and associated task forces: This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-Class status: Referencing and citation: criterion met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met This article has had a peer review which is now archived. Associated task forces (nations and regions): French military history task force German military history task force United States military history task force Associated task forces (periods and conflicts): World War II task force

Colmar Pocket has had a peer review by Wikipedia editors which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article.

[edit] Geographical stub?

Question the use of a geographical stub for this article? The "pocket" was a result of the positioning of the front lines of military forces, not a geographical feature. Geographically, the pocket was situated in the Vosges Mountains and on the Alsatian Plain. W. B. Wilson 23:38, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree. It was a military designation not a geographical one. Aside, I wonder do we really need all these GPS coordinates? Tswold (talk) 07:17, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

I placed them in the article because many of these places are very small and would not be found on commonly available maps of France (other than small-scale Michelin maps that aren't easily obtainable outside of France). The coordinates also allow users to access satellite views of particular aspects of the battlefields. Cheers W. B. Wilson (talk) 17:56, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Battle

IMHO this was an operation, and a joint one between the French and Americans. The lead section starts with "The initial French attack against the south flank of the Colmar Pocket". It seems to me that its counter-logical to attack a 'pocket' before it was formed, so maybe the first section should be named "Formation of the Colmar Pocket"?--mrg3105mrg3105 21:02, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

 ? The first section is titled "Formation of the Pocket", is that too ambiguous? Cheers--W. B. Wilson (talk) 04:44, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

The logical progression is that a 'pocket' is formed first through a double-envelopment (an envelope is a paper 'pocket'), then contained, blockaded or besieged if a city is present (sometimes called encirclement), and finally reduced. There is yet again an inconsistency in the naming since the article is about an entire Army being enveloped. This is no longer a 'pocket', but what is known as a 'cauldron', a much larger 'container' such as Stalingrad. I'm not sure who wrote it, but the 'battle' part is usually when the enveloped troops try to break out of the envelopment because usually they are in the process of a retreat. An Army offers a bit more then a 'pocket of resistance'--mrg3105mrg3105 05:11, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Sounds very precise and convincing...but what about general usage? The Falaise pocket (nearly) enveloped two armies and no-one calls it the Falais Cauldron! Stephen Kirrage ^{talk - contribs} 10:33, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Thats why I didn't suggest changing the name. The general use is that - that is how all envelopments are executed. What they are called is another story. Pockets and cauldrons are the literary terms, while envelopments and encirclements are the military terms. They are followed by the suggested scale of envelopment, i.e. "The enemy battalion, regiment, brigade, division, etc. was enveloped in the woods, valley, city, on the plateau, etc." I know its the only name used in English, although it rather under-rates the success of the Allied troops.--mrg3105mrg3105 10:47, 1 February 2008 (UTC)