Talk:Coin
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[edit] Inflation and debasement
I have removed a graph showing cumulative inflation and some unsourced/unsupported text about the effect of leaving the silver standard on inflation. Using a graph of cumulative data is very confusing for most people, since they think they are looking at a rate. Compare these two graphs:
If you look at the RATES, you can see there were higher inflation rates in several periods before the US left the silver standard. The difference between these two graphs is the same as the difference between THESE two graphs:
This is, in my opinion, a very deceptive way to present these data. Any cumulative distribution is going to look like a skyrocketing rate unless the reader is very clear on exactly what is being shown. Please do not restore this material without reviewing this problem. Thanks, Wachholder0 16:17, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
I think it would be better in the first sentence to say that coins are issued by "an authority" rather than "a government," as many private (non-government) mints have existed. I'd appreciate hearing at least one confirmation of this view. --SMetsker
- While it's true that private mints have issued coin-like pieces of metal, no private mint issue (AFAIK) has ever gained legal tender status, which is a key part of the definition of a "coin". Without a status as money, it's just another piece of metal.--chris.lawson 16:56, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
- Can you substantiate the claim that part of the definition of "coin" is that the object has legal tender status? Actually, I think that's a mistake; Look at any modern coin magazine, and you'll see ads for items called "coins" that are not (and never were) legal tender. --SMetsker 13 August 2006
- The article itself defines a coin as something to be used as money, a fact with which the dictionary agrees[1]. "Money" implies legal tender status by any reasonable definition[2]. Private-issue tokens do not meet this standard, and therefore are not coins. Furthermore, just because an advertisement claims an object to be a coin does not make it so; most of these advertisements also propose that the item advertised has some great collector value, which is almost universally untrue.--chris.lawson 22:57, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- Can you substantiate the claim that part of the definition of "coin" is that the object has legal tender status? Actually, I think that's a mistake; Look at any modern coin magazine, and you'll see ads for items called "coins" that are not (and never were) legal tender. --SMetsker 13 August 2006
Is it true that coins are generally back by a country's reserves? That is are most countries still on a gold or silver standard? --rmhermen
I removed:
- Usually, the value of such coins is guaranteed by being backed by that government's reserves.
I would be very surprized if this were true. As far as I know, nearly all coins in the world today are unbacked (or minimally-backed) fiat currencies like the US dollar. --LDC
- The US dollar isn't really "unbacked", but what is is backed by is left as an exercise for the reader. The US government neither backs nor creates the US dollar. Who does? -º¡º
What is being measured by the graph in this article? Could the person who added it provide a title or explanation? -- llywrch 02:05 Apr 20, 2003 (UTC)
- cumulative inflation, I believe.
- price levels (same thing as cumulative inflation more or less) - the graph now has an caption. -º¡º
Not to be nationalistic or xenophobic or bigoted or anything like that, but as this is the English-speaking Wikipedia, perhaps we can get an image of an English-speaking country's coin, such as a US cent or a GB penny, or even an AU dollar? I don't know any countries which use the Euro and speak English, apart from Ireland; but that's Ireland. --195.92.67.78 22:31, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
Done: Changed it to a Canadian quarter. --thirty-seven 06:54, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Not revaluing currency is not unique to U.S.
From the article: What is unique to the United States, among the developed countries, is that the U.S. has never revised its coinage system to accommodate this inflation, and as a result, coins in America today are scarcely regarded as "money" in any practical sense.
To the best of my knowledge, Canadian, Australian, New Zealand, and British coinage systems have never been revised to accomodate inflation. Britain decimalized its currency, but this had nothing to do with inflation and did nothing to change to value of its currency's base unit (pound). When Australia and New Zealand decimalized, they actually devalued their base unit by 50%. I suppose you could consider Australia and New Zealand removing pennies from circulation as revising their coinage systems to accomodate inflation. However, I assumed you were talking about bigger changes, like France decreeing that 100 old Francs == 1 New Franc. In any case, the UK and Canada still have pennies in circulation. The article needs to be rephrased to reflect this, to be accurate and less Amero-centric. --thirty-seven 06:42, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
Changes made --PatClay 21:15, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Silver coinage != Fiat money
I have removed this passage: It should be remembered, however, that for most of the era of U.S. silver coinage, such coins were actually fiat money, because the value of silver was relatively low. For example, in 1960, the silver in a dime was worth less than four cents.
I think this is an oversimplification that goes as far as to mislead the reader. From 1792 to 1873 (remember the crime of 1873) there was free coinage of silver that kept the USD and Silver tightly linked. From 1873 to 1893 (and the panic of 1893) silver was freely coinable within certain constraints. In 1893 Silver lost coinability. Now, does this mean that US silver coinage from this point forward was not fiat money? Maybe, maybe not. It depends on if you are using the "completely unbacked" definition of "fiat" or not. Either way, a dime was still 2.5 grams of 90% silver. Finally, the average price of Silver in 1960 was $0.92/oz, which I believe means there was still 7.4 cents of silver in a dime (not less than four cents as the passage suggested). - O^O
[edit] Hey
I just wanted to ask if damaging coins is illegal. Otherone of Sion 08:51, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
- Nevermind. [3] Otherone of Sion 08:51, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Which way does the Monarch face?
I once saw on a TV show that it's traditional for each successive monarch to face the opposite direction from the previous on their portrait on coins. Well for British coins anyway. For example Queen Elizabeth faces to the right on all British coins, and when(if?) Charles gets to be king, he will face to the left. I don't know if its true... But if it is, it'd be nice to have something mentioned about it here. This TV show also claimed that one particular king (forget which) didn't like that particular side of his face so swapped over (thus creating a rare form of coin worth a lot to collectors) -- Mick (collector of worthless trivia (not coins))
- That fact (successive monarchs facing different directions) is already mentioned in the British coinage article. --thirty-seven 09:16, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] The banknote with the lowest (absolute) value and the coin with the highest (absolute) value
I think it would be interesting to mention in the article which banknote has currently the lowest and which has the highest value out of the currencies of the Earth (considering their absolute, mid-market values, compared to each other). Besides, I'd be happy to know which coin has the highest value out of the currencies (excluding commemorative coins).
If you want to react or ask questions (instead of inserting the information into the article), maybe it would be useful to do so on the talk page of "Banknote" where I asked this same question. Adam78 20:48, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] confusing article
this article is more than a little confusing. it would be best to clarify that all contemporary currency is 'fiat', and that there is no connection between the metallic value of a coin and the signorage assigned to it, nor has there been this connection, anywhere in the world, since nixon ended bretton-woods around 1973. this prohibition is also reinforced by official IMF policy.
also, it would be better to be accurate in terms of (fiat) dollar values assigned to contemporary investor coins - an ounce of platinum from the us mint is called '$100', an ounce of gold '$50'. both values are about 1/12 of current prices. it might also be useful to mention that the US federal govt still officially values gold at about this amount, even going so far as to unerstate american gold reserves in official documentation by less than 1/10 of market value.
a thorough article might want to mention the 'noble' isle of mann unit as an amusing example of a non-fiat contemporary currency, and may also want to link to the wikis which discuss how the current metal 'melt' values of american pennies and nickels is actually higher than the assigned value. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.109.191.17 (talk) 22:15, 12 February 2007 (UTC).
[edit] Exergue Mergefrom
Exergue really doesn't stand on its own as an article, and already has a definition in Wiktionary. Exergue could also possibly redirect to numismatics, or perhaps medal, but I'd say coin is superior to both. ENeville 15:44, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Viewing the sides
The orientation of the obverse with respect to the reverse differs between countries. Some coins have coin orientation, where the coin must be flipped vertically to see the other side; other coins, such as British coins, have medallic orientation, where the coin must be flipped horizontally to see the other side.
Wouldn't it be better to specify that this is to view the side correctly rather than just to see it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.205.224.155 (talk) 14:38, 13 June 2007
[edit] Aside from being Confusing, the History of Coinage is also Incorrect
As to the reference that a single Indian historian believes that India produced the first coinage in the 6th century, it has been demonstrated by numismaticists that the Lydian coin was developed circa 650 BCE, and other city-states in Greece such as Aegina and Athens had developed coins as well by the mid-6th century. There are probably more than 100 books that cite, so I do not know why this article cites the earliest coin as being 100 years later. By any standards, it is misleading and erroneous. While there should be mention of this finding, being that only one historian cites it, makes the contention dubious in and of itself. Secondly, it is historically incorrect to place it as the earliest coin, since there are several coins already in existence, that have been numismatically dated to the time of its appearance. This needs to be corrected to reflect what is currently known about the history of coinage. Stevenmitchell (talk) 02:47, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Punch marked coin from Madhyadesha.jpg
Image:Punch marked coin from Madhyadesha.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
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BetacommandBot (talk) 05:05, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
