Talk:Coats of arms of Asia

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	Heraldry and Vexillology Portal Coats of arms of Asia is within the scope of the Heraldry and vexillology WikiProject, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of heraldry and vexillology. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.
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Contents 1 Fair use rationale for Image:Nagorno-Karabakh Coat of Arms.png 2 Fair use rationale for Image:Msia-crest.jpg 3 Fair use image use 4 Fair use rationale for Image:Arms of cambodia.jpg

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Nagorno-Karabakh Coat of Arms.png

Image:Nagorno-Karabakh Coat of Arms.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 04:36, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Msia-crest.jpg

Image:Msia-crest.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 23:20, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use image use

I have removed fair use images from this article due to violating Wikipedia:Non-free content criteria item #8, which explicitly states "The use of non-free media in lists ... is normally regarded as merely decorative, and is thus unacceptable" This use is clearly a list. The removal of these images is no different than removing album covers from discographies. Some examples prior to removal from those articles; [1][2][3]. It is appropriate to use these images on articles specifically regarding the country or specifically regarding the country's coat of arms. It is not appropriate to use them here. --Durin 13:11, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

This is not a mere list-the namespace of the article itself provides the use as not merely decorative. Coats of arms of Asia were not universally common until the late 20th centrury and so have developed much differently than in other parts of the world where they have a longer history. Being able to compare and contrast each side-by-side makes readily apparent the difference from those, say at Coats of arms of Europe. I know you set yourself up as the undisputable authority on such things, but I contest your flawed logic in this case and seek to broaden the discussion. Chris 13:23, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

• Being able to contrast their designs might be interesting in a separate article titled something like Comparison of Late 20th Century Asian Coats of Arms (though such an article might be deemed original research). Here, there's no discussion about differences from other parts of the world or anything the like. Here, the use is purely decorative.
• I haven't tried to set myself up as some authority on fair use. I act within policies and Foundation resolutions. If I'm found at fault, I make amends and correct my future behavior. Further meta discussion on my actions here is really irrelevant to the discussion at hand. The question is whether the use here is allowable under our non-free content policies. From my chair, it clearly isn't as there is no discussion of the arms in any respect; just display. This is *clearly* in violation of our policies. Please see WP:NFCC item #8. This IS a list, nothing more. --Durin 13:28, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Your smug "From my chair" illustrates your abusive stance, as does your glib and incorrect smear of this article as "This IS a list, nothing more". Mere "lists" don't detail what is on images, as the motto column here does. You are one of the most disruptive users in that you carry out the letter of the law (in your opinion), but totally violate the spirit of that law as you do not seek to understand what is trying to be accomplished at the articles you ravage, then you hide behind "I'm only doing what Wikipedia policy dictates." Try being constructive for once and instead suggest how the article may be improved, such that it may include those images within Wiki guidelines. Surely you're not an automaton, there must be something within you that wants to be both helpful and positive; I appeal to that part. Step out of that legalistic role for a bit and assist rather than destroy. This article is always open to improvement if you will but step back and delineate what that should be. I would like to think there is more than just a deletionist in you, I want to see the guy that came here to build a community. Chris 13:48, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

• If you have an issue with my "smug", "disruptive", "(un)constructive", "legalistic" and "abusive" stance, take it up elsewhere. As I noted, meta discussion on my actions is irrelevant to the point at hand. Please discuss the issue, rather than attacking me. --Durin 13:53, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

• I side with Durin. This, while has some more information than, lets say, most flag galleries, but this is still decoration in the eyes of the Foundation. If they really want to see the arms that bad, they can just click the name of the article to the far right of the page. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 19:13, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Having already had one discussion which got out of hand on this matter, I am somewhat reluctant to comment here, but following the notice at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Heraldry and vexillology, I will say a few things. Firstly, applying fair use policy is nothing like deletionism, and nothing negative about applying it (correctly) as Durin is trying to do. However, this case is very different from removing images from discographies. While Durin contends that the word "normally" in "The use of non-free media in lists, galleries, and navigational and user-interface elements is normally regarded as merely decorative, and is thus unacceptable." is not necessary, that sentence is part of the whole of criterion 8, and in that context it is more than clear that the purpose of the sentence is to point out that use of non-free images in lists does not generally meet the criterion in question, significance. It does not at all validate the argument "it's a list, so no non-free images". In this case, the images and clearly not decorative, but have immense significance to this article. This raises the question of whether the article relies on the images so much that it is not the sort of article we should have on Wikipedia (see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gallery of city flags), but that is an entirely separate question. Durin raises the question of discussion of arms, implying that discussion has the potential make use of the images acceptable. This argument is interesting in several ways:

• Chris implies that the "motto" column is discussion of the arms. It is a step in that direction, but it is hardly enough to justify keeping the images with the argument that they are discussed.
• If, indeed, this article does belong on Wikipedia, it should include discussion of the arms. That is one obvious way to improve the article. Removing images in the meantime because the discussion is not there may be technically correct, and may even be the best thing to do in the short term, but implying that they don't belong in the article because they are like discographies is missing the point.
• Most importantly, the use of non-free images in general does not have and has not had a requirement for discusion/commentary in any Wikipedia policy or guideline. While it is true that images such as artworks and screenshots can only be used in the context of critical commentary, the NFCC quite rightly instead have criteria like significance, for which discussion/commentary is neither necessary nor sufficient. Some discussions do not justify the use of an image. Some usages of images do not require discussion. If that weren't the case, country infoboxes would be more of a problem than this article (maybe they are a problem anyway, but my statement is still true in other cases). Let's use the criteria, rather than oversimplified interpretations of them.

Having said all that, several images may be subject to the problem Zach mentioned at the project talk page, in which case, the images probably do not satisfy NFCC#1, at least in spirit, and shouldn't be used anywhere, let alone in this article. JPD (talk) 11:04, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Arms of cambodia.jpg

Image:Arms of cambodia.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 04:34, 12 February 2008 (UTC)