Talk:Coat of arms of Lithuania
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| Comments | needs better organization. Renata 00:56, 28 August 2006 (UTC) |
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Coat of arms of Lithuania is within the scope of the Heraldry and vexillology WikiProject, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of heraldry and vexillology. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. |
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[edit] Vytis
Does Vytis really mean "the Charge"? I thought it meant "the Chase", like after a victorious battle. Appleseed 16:13, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
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- it means "Chase" as it said in the top line of articale.
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"Some linguists believe that Daukantas invented the word by translating Polish pogoń. However, other disagree because Lithuanian language has a common verb vyti meaning to chase."
This needs clarification IMHO, because in the current form these two clauses taken together make little sense.
Namely, the _disagreement_ of some linguists to the theory expressed by the first sentence cannot be based on the fact, that the Lithuanian language does have a native word meaning "to chase", and therefore that "vytis" as "the chase" cannot be a translation of the Polish "pogoń". This does not follow; contrary, the fact that the term has appeared fairly recently, and it is not a common, but rather a bookish (or litterary) word, clearly points to the translation, or at least to the word formation _based_ on the Polish "pogoń" (which means "the chase" and, apart from being a name for the Lithuanian coat of arms used yet in the times of the commonwealth, it is a common noun). The arguments of the opponents must be different, then, as I believe, and so this part of the article should be provided with more detailed information on this controversy, if there's indeed any serious one. 82.210.159.30 03:51, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
Daukantas really liked to invent new words like a little kid, but mostly all of them are widely used now, like LAIKRODIS (The Clock)
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- These versions above are clearly new-age myths derived from popular explanation tries. Let's try to analyse ethymology of this word more seriously: Vyti by it's old meaning is really similar to ginti, compare these sentences: Vyti priešus and Ginti priešus (both mean to hunt away enemies - not to pursue), also, see for comparison lithuanian names Vyt-tautas (Vytautas, Witold), Gin-tautas (Gintautas), Taut-ginas (Tautginas) all those with the only meaning: protector of the people, so there are clear linguistic fact that word used with this meaning long before Daukantas. Compare this also with words such as vaitas (leader of the community) and kalavijas (kala-vijas - kind of sword named like strike-pursue). Also compare this with names of medieval lithuanian rulers: Vytautas and Vytenis. The other relation - with the slavic word витязь (vityaz) is also clear linguistically - this word simply has no surroundings in slavic languages, so this shows that vityaz in those languages is loanword, derived from the outside, and the only source for this seems to be baltic languages. So, old existence of that word in Russian language is also clear proof of Vytis as the natural baltic word with the meaning of knight. So, as the conclusion we may only suppose that Daukantas at most used this word (vytis as the knight) with the modified meaning - vytis as the Kinght in lithuanian coat of arms and this meaning lasted in Lithuanian language up to now. --Gvorl 00:01, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
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- Your statement (and especially the last sentence of it) proves, that I am right: even if the word existed before (it is not attested as is, however, and the derivatives you cite may well be coined from the temporal; verb, and not the noun), it wasn't however, according to your own words, used to denote the Lithuanian Coat of Arms or its Knight. This however was long before called "Pogoń" in Polish, so if you state that Mr Daukantas used the word "vytis" in this new meaning, that obviously means that he "translated" it (made a loan translation, if he didn't create the noun, or full translation, if he did) from Polish in this manner. 82.210.159.30 17:56, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Vytis prior 1845?
How could Vytis be used to denote the coat of arms of Grand Duchy of Lithuania, when the term Vytis was created only in 1845? It's pure nonsence use this term. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.135.217.87 (talk) 18:11, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] smaller design
In 
, the second image in this article, there is a smaller geometric emblem (both on the rider's shield and in the helmet above), which can also be seen in the emblem of Lietuvos Skautija Image:Wosm-lithuania.gif. What does it signify? Chris 08:38, 8 July 2007 (UTC) see: Columns of Gediminids Iulius 11:10, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
