Talk:Clockwork Orange (plot)

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[edit] Hoax tag

---Discussion taken from user talk pages---

I see you placed a hoax tag on the Clockwork Orange article. When I created the article, I did put two sources (Hansard and Paul Foot are, or were, good mainstream sources). A quick google for Colin Wallace and/or Clockwork Orange will find plenty of references to it, not necessarily ones that pass WP:RS. For example, these [1] [2][3] [4] are just a few random google hits on the subject, but you'll find plenty more. Mainstream journalists like Martin Dillon (in his book 'The Dirty War') and David Mckittrick (in the Irish Times) have commented on the existence of the allegations in print (but I didn't have any handy citations from those two to hand when I wrote the article and still don't). What makes you think there's any possible hoax as to the existence of the allegations? Whether the allegations are true or not is a different matter. --Aim Here 18:08, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

I placed {{hoax}} because it presents the entire thing as absolutely factual. It says that the Project existed to smear politicians - it didn't. It needs to be rewritten to be an article about the theory not the fact, since we can't possibly know if the fact exists.--Rambutan (talk) 18:13, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Read the article again. The alleged smearing of politicians is always treated as an unproven allegation throughout. For example "was alleged to have involved a right-wing smear campaign against British politicians in the 1970s." and "Colin Wallace ... also claims that ... the project began giving briefings to foreign journalists against politicians" and "Politicians alleged to have been smeared ..." and "Other than Wallace's testimony, the primary evidence for the existence of this plot consisted of ..." and "Archie Hamilton ... claimed that there was no evidence that this project involved a smear campaign against politicians."

That's a fair amount of hedging in a small article. Which parts of the article makes the claim that the smear campaign is a fact, because I don't see any.

In any case, that's not a job for a {{hoax}} tag, but a POV one. If you're going to be so loose with tags, at least take the trouble to explain the problem on the talk page.. This goes for Harold Wilson Conspiracy Theories too of course.--Aim Here 18:24, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Changed the tag to POV --Aim Here 18:28, 20 July 2007 (UTC)