User talk:Clio the Muse

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Contents 1 Ever Wise 2 Disagreements 3 Second Amendment to U.S. Constitution 4 Philosophy on Humanities 5 Magda Goebbbels 6 Sparta. 7 Die gerettete Zunge 8 High among the wise 9 Soviet partisans 10 Pandemics and Love 11 Hello 12 Nietzsche and Love 13 George Eliot 14 Christabel Pankhurst medallion 15 IP 16 Promotion 17 Philosophy award 18 Happy St George's Day! 19 Small request 20 Random 21 I have even greater respect for you 22 Vandalism! 23 Euphrosyne sources 24 wotcha 2 25 British commanders negligence on the Western Front during the great war 26 You can't get married 27 The Elven Queen Sails into the West 28 all the best.... 29 Golden Award 30 Cheerio from Down Under 31 Musée des Beaux-Arts 32 Goodbye sweet Clio 33 Clio quondam, Clioque futura 34 Euterpe speaks 35 Have the Elves really gone? 36 Restoration Scotland 37 Thank you 38 New request! 39 Awesome 40 Goodbye, Ruby Tuesday 41 Ah well 42 We shiver

[edit] Ever Wise

		The Socratic Barnstar
		Who but you deserves one of these. I suppose it should really be the Hypatia Barnstar! OTMA (talk) 20:23, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

How lovely! Thank you, OTMA. I shall add both star and Hypatia to my user page. Clio the Muse (talk) 22:54, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Disagreements

It is a good thing that we disagree occasionally, it will keep us both sharp. ;-) (We have, incidentally, met before.) --Captain Ref Desk (talk) 16:05, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Ah, Captain, my Captain! I think we may very well have met even before that. It was your reference to Professor Gregor that rather gave things away! It matters not to me in what form you come: yours is an intelligent and perceptive voice, and that is always welcome. Incidentally, I am sorry that your Cold Dead Hand question was removed. I do not edit war, and try to avoid conflict as far as I am able. But I do intend to register an objection by posting an answer on the Reference Desk, all the more effective, I think, by being placed in the vacant space. And don’t worry about disagreeing with me. I love challenges. It helps to keep me sharp! Clio the Muse (talk) 21:59, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Re: previous encounters. Highly possible. I have been around here for awhile under a number of different names. I find changing hats periodically keeps the internet fresh and the cumulative drama low. And Gregor is a memorable fellow (that picture of him, in the article on him, is spot-on. He would glower at the auditorium through those heavy glasses, while he derided us for having glue for brains, or something along those lines. He had a number of bizarre insults he liked to constantly reuse). Anyway, no worries about Cold Dead Hands, though I do resent that the fact that the more I try to spell out my thinking, the higher the chance of getting accused of trying to cause a row. --Captain Ref Desk (talk) 23:17, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Not to worry. I, at least, appreciate the subtelty of your argument. I'm not at all surprised by your annoyance. We get many stupid and trolling questions on the Reference Desk, most of which I ignore. It realise how irksome it must be for anyone to suggest that your thoughts could in any way be placed in the same category. Clio the Muse (talk) 23:24, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Second Amendment to U.S. Constitution

Clio,

Thank you for responding to Capt. Ref Desk's question and for opposing the attempt to suppress it. Since you and I tend to differ politically, I was surprised to find myself in complete agreement not only with your position but with your reasons for holding it. The last lines of your answer though, puzzled and intrigued me. You wrote:

There are, however, powerful vested interests at work, which might very well serve to undermine the operation of democracy itself. I can offer no answers, merely lodge yet another question. Perhaps the time has come for new forms of moral authority, for a new style of leadership and direction, and-dare I say it-for a new Bill of Rights?

Which vested interests did you mean? What new forms of moral authority? What sort of new Bill of Rights? I don't intend to debate you if I disagree; I just want to understand your thinking.

Regards,

Marco polo (talk) 00:43, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Hi, Marco. Just some musings, I suppose. I am, however, aware of the extent to which American politics is dominated by powerful lobby groups of one kind or another. In the context of this particular question I was, of course, thinking of the National Rifle Association. You see, there are lobby interests in English politics also, but they do not enjoy the same degrees of influence, or have the same forms of access to the executive power. The danger in the States-and you are a much better judge of this than I-is that the lobbies act like a fast growing forest canopy, cutting off the light, and perhaps even choking democracy itself. Take the gun lobby. To be able to stand up to this would indeed require the most determined forms of leadership; leadership based on a willingness to tackle some cherished assumptions; to have the moral authority to appeal to the community at large and to withstand the negative backlash. As I understand it the original Bill of Rights was advanced in defence of the ordinary people of a new democracy; the powerless and the dispossessed, the people always at risk from Monarchy or Oligarchy. A new Bill of Rights-and I have no precise idea what form this would take-would offer guarantees that democracy is not simply a periodic electoral carnival; that the community at large has a right to be heard, not just those with organisation, expertise and money. I am a Conservative, Marco, but a very English kind of Conservative! Clio the Muse (talk) 01:05, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, Clio. Again, I could not agree more. While I would not call myself a Conservative, still I find much to admire in the British tradition of Conservatism. Edmund Burke had a wisdom that is still relevant today. Marco polo (talk) 02:22, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Philosophy on Humanities

Please see my questions. I value your view.F Hebert (talk) 12:30, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. I will do my best. Clio the Muse (talk) 22:24, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Magda Goebbbels

Comments on my sentence "Strangely enough, Magda Goebbels was described as an emancipated, headstrong and intelligent woman."

• It is my working hypothesis that "headstrong and intelligent" implies - inter alia - independence, scepticism, nonconformism and analytical aptitude. Reading about her life in the Third Reich and looking at the few quotes attributed to Ms Goebbels (including the letter to a son from her first marriage) I found little, indeed, nothing of that.
• I found a person who let herself be marketed as an ideal of Aryan motherhood, I read of a woman who (presumably) married a man she did not really care for, I saw a woman whose adoration of Hitler seems to have been without rational limits, I met a woman who, till the very end, thought that loyalty was a higher duty than being true to one´s own principles.
• Ms Goebbels needs my approval as little as anybody else, dead or alive. I certainly don´t think that it is my privilege to judge others. I expressed, maybe poorly, my incapacity to understand a human being of unquestioned complexity. I thought that senescience would alleviate this juvenile problem of ignorance. Instead, it gets worse...

--Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 21:43, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for that. Headstrong and intelligent implies lots of things, independent, sceptical and non-conformist among them; Magda was all of those things, and more. She also had presence and charisma; she saw life as a challenge, and she rose to that challenge in the most extraordinary way. She could adapt to any situation, a woman who was always going to make an impression on the world, for good or ill. She stands above all of the other leading Nazi women, most of whom were mediocrities or tiresome Hausfraus. She was certainly fascinated by Josef, and I can see no reason at all to suppose that she did not love him. I, too, have read parts of her correspondence-some of which I quoted in my Humanities Desk response-taking an entirely different impression from you. For Magda loyalty was a principle. If she was 'marketed', as you say, she certainly turned that process to her own particular ends. Yes, she did adore Hitler, but not uncritically so, especially towards the end. Look, in essence what I am saying to you is there is absolutely nothing to be gained by traducing those people, and those things, one does not happen to care for; it serves no purpose whatsoever. No, I would go further; it only weakens understanding. You might like to believe the great tragedy of Nazi Germany was conceived and executed by stupid people. It was not; not by any measure. Clio the Muse (talk) 22:23, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sparta.

Correct, I hope? Nice to see you're still around; I've not been on the refdesks much these past months, unfortunately. · AndonicO ^Hail! 22:49, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

And it's nice to see you back! Clio the Muse (talk) 23:29, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Die gerettete Zunge

Goodness, I completely agree with you on that one (this subsection's title being the only work I sort of enjoyed). By chance of location, we even had the pleasure of meeting the gentleman as little kids - he really was kind to us - but the pleasure faded the more I read. Her books, on the other hand, I like a lot, but he obviously had trouble accepting her talent. What a pedantic narcissist and self-embarassing kisser-and-teller. ---Sluzzelin talk 00:32, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Possibly the very worst! Clio the Muse (talk) 00:34, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] High among the wise

I can not say just how impressed I am by your answers to my philosophy questions, which demonstrate a fluency and a comprehension that go well beyond my most optimistic expectations. I assumed from your earlier responses that you were at the very least a student of modern philosophy, but I see from your user page that you are a historian. Whatever you are you are a phenomenon. You speak clearly, with a quite authority. You make most of the others on the reference desks look like fools. You are indeed high among the wise. With much respect. Ferdinand Howard Hebert. F Hebert (talk) 17:11, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

You are too kind, Ferdinand. Clio the Muse (talk) 22:22, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Clio is her father's daughter, but she has far to go before she sleeps. I have spoken. Olympian Zeus (talk) 15:30, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

As always You speak wisely, Great Storm Father! Clio the Muse (talk) 22:14, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

This really is a funny place, sister. Responding to possibly innocent, but incredibly impudent blasphemy, Dad flashed a friendly warning bolt on his own talk page here and promptly some Barbarian from the north warned him here. Imagine that! Poor dad, living in the Iron age of disrespect; his daughter getting all the praise, and Barbarians taking over! Fools indeed, bring on the deluge! ---Euterpe the Muse (talk) 00:51, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Ah, Euterpe, what fools these mortals be (especially Vikings!) Clio the Muse (talk) 01:18, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

I can't help feeling sorry for Erik the Red 2. What dismal fate can we foresee for him? Xn4 01:22, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

What about a repeat of this? You know how those Norsemen love to eat and drink! Clio the Muse (talk) 01:37, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

And wasn't there even a hint of cannibalism in the North, helping us in that direction? So it would be just the thing. The poor Erik! Xn4 01:43, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

He-he! Clio the Muse (talk) 02:00, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Soviet partisans

I don't see a userbox for knowledge of Russian on your user page, so if you need help, feel free to ask--mrg3105 (comms) ♠♥♦♣ 00:02, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

That is just so sweet of you, mrg3105; thanks. If you have read my user page then you must surely have noted that this user does not use user boxes! Clio the Muse (talk) 00:25, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes, user boxes are hmmm, a temporary addiction? I went overboard at first, but later decided to hide most since they begun to annoy me. --mrg3105 (comms) ♠♥♦♣ 02:26, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

I simply hate being referred to as a generic third person, as in 'this user thinks this' or 'this user does that'! Besides, I've already revealed as much about myself, my interests and my beliefs as I would wish. After all, I do have to preserve some degree of mystery! Clio the Muse (talk) 22:13, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Is preservation of mystery a neo-feminist development, a retro-feminist development (I have failed to keep up), or just being yourself? ;o) So few women leave much to mystery these days that I no longer bother to look for it (mystery that is). In any case, its refreshing.--mrg3105 (comms) ♠♥♦♣ 02:21, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Ah, mrg3105, Clio is only ever herself; unique in every way. And if there is no mystery there is no romance! Incidentally, I now have some information on the strength of the Soviet Partisan movement, as you will see from the Home Army talk page. Clio the Muse (talk) 22:08, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

My English name is Greg, which is certainly not as exotic as Anastasia ;o) Please understand that I have a fairly pedantic personality, and training as an economic historian. Any time someone says "largest", or uses any other form of comparative phraseology, I want to see the spreadsheet. When I looked at the sources the numbers in the article are currently referenced to, they virtually quoted each other on the matter of AK's size with none offering archival substantiation, or even basic comparative analysis. The reason I am unable to devote time to the question of Soviet partisans is because I am, at this time, doing a course, and I had just spent more time then I cared to spend on de-constructing similar claims by Latvian editors on the Courland Pocket article, which ended with the ultimate irony that the proof of the Latvian SS being "heroic" in this article comes from research, via Latvian emigrants in Sweden, by a Soviet Jewish veteran of the war, documenting awarding of Hero of Soviet Union to Jewish recipients, most of whom fought in the Soviet 130th Rifle Corps composed of mostly Latvian-speakers who fought the Latvian SS opposite them!

In any case, I enjoyed your input into the discussion not because it supported my denial of the claims made in the article, but because of the professionalism, and erudition with which t was delivered. Cheers--mrg3105 (comms) ♠♥♦♣ 00:21, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

You are most welcome, Greg (thanks for that!) All historians are pedants; it comes with the territory! Anyway, I just hope a little peace breaks out! Clio the Muse (talk) 00:54, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Amen to that, however I am increasingly becoming conscious of the nature of Wikipedia and its reliance on by the general public, not realising that the articles they use may not always have been subjected to rigorous peer review, or even a review based on the sorts of rules considered standard when applied in the academia like checking sources, producing analytical thought, not abusing statistics, etc.

By the way, speaking of Charles II (not that we were!), someone knowing my passion for history told me the "20 years later" movie would be on tv, and I watched it, not having seen it for a while. The same person then remarked that the French may have sent more then four people if they really wanted to save Charles I from death! I then had to explain that no such attempt was made, and that the movie in any case took substantial liberty with Dumas' work. I hope that Wikipedia will not become some online version of Hollywood ;o)--mrg3105 (comms) ♠♥♦♣ 01:37, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I suppose in some way it already has! I've long had serious worries about the nature and purpose of Wikipedia, not the obvious vandalism, which is easily detected and rectified, but some of the more subtle distortions and misconceptions, which serve to rewrite history on a drip-by-drip basis. It's not as obvious as the practice adopted by Minitrue in George Orwell's Nineteen-Eighty Four, but it's just as alarming in its own way. I have noticed that when errors are adopted by Wikipedia they have a tendency to appear right across the internet.

As for the political battles, well, what can I say about those? I've had to take pages as diverse as James I of England and Josef Stalin off my watch-list in disgust over the storms that were conjured up, including an incredibly tiresome contest over James' sexuality! In the end the open access policy only serves to undermine Wikipedia, in my mind at least, as a reliable source of reference. The first thing I tell new students is to treat everything they find here with a high degree of caution. I could contribute so much more-beyond the amusement I get from answering questions on the Humanities Desk-but will not do so because I simply could not bear to see my efforts corrupted and undermined. Best wishes. Clio the Muse (talk) 02:05, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes, well, your comments do not leave much to be added. I had come to Wikipedia to satisfy my own interest in the Eastern Front, and documenting the well over 200 major campaigns and offensives by the Red Army which are unrecorded here, represented largely only be the much better known "Battles of" articles, and find myself engaging in the sort of discussions that would have never taken place in my university days...even in year 1.

James I's sexuality!!! Only now that you bring this up do I realise there was even an issue to consider. I am not at all a specialist in the period, but given the precarious state of affairs in the realm, any suggestion of impropriety, aside from the accepted (expected?!) male adultery, would have given James' opponents ample weapons for blackmail. In any case, it is obvious that people who can suggest such things fail to appreciate the social standards and customs of the age when a kiss from a man to a man on the lips was considered normal and asexual (even in 1939), and when guards were posted during the monarch's dip in the lake so no one could "espy" his majesties unclothed person ;o)

You may be interested to know that someone had recently tried to add to the Stalin article a suggestion that he was an alcoholic, completely neglecting to mention that Stalin's own father was an alcoholic, which is usually used to analyse his personality development.[1] Also neglected is that although he invariably forced others to drink at his meetings, his own drink of choice was a Georgian home-made wine made for him by personal friends, and more rarely other Georgian wines, and only rarely vodka.

Yes, Greg, his sexuality. If you ever have a spare hour or so you might care to read through the relevant talk page. There were points when the whole thing got completely out of hand, especially after it attracted the LGBT cabal. It's actually quite hilarious! I tried to introduce some sanity, saying that it was not a matter that was subject to the test of any acceptable historical proof. I also pointed to the scholarly sensitivity with which the issue was handled in the page on Frederick II of Prussia, but the battle continued notwithstanding. I see the LGBT flag is off at the moment, though.

So Stalin is turning into Beso, is he? How he would have loved that! Clio the Muse (talk) 22:43, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for the "invitation", but I am not interested. I' afraid I am not politically correct in regards to LGBT, and not interested in political arguments that seek to "out" a long dead English monarch to "prove" the LGBT contention of their version of history where every other notable individual was a closet "LoG". I have seen some "historical works" that purport to argue a version of "historical sexuality". I see you have an interest in feminism, so I will say no more on the subject. However, I'm sure you are well aware that sexuality is an integral part of the culture, and is as dynamic as the culture itself. Superimposition of contemporary conceptions on historically removed times is what I call the "writing of history" as opposed to the study of it, never mind actually learning from history. It is somewhat akin to the discussion you just contributed to where the Polish editor refuses to acknowledge the obvious facts largely because such acknowledgement would grate on his anti-Soviet feelings, therefore the Polish AK resistance has to be the largest, the Latvian SS had to be "heroic", the LGBT has to be historical, and therefore acceptable...minorities tend to be the most vocal majorities.

The personality of Stalin is an extremely interesting subject. John Laver wrote books I have not read on him, Lenin and Hitler. The other is Profiling Political Leaders: Cross-Cultural Studies of Personality and Behavior by Ofer Feldman (Editor), Linda O. Valenty (Editor) which includes Mao Zedong, Tony Blair, Seyyed Mohammed Khatami, Helmut Kohl, and Stalin, Yeltsin, and Putin. I wonder if Tony would be interested to find himself in this company ;o)

I see these as a new form of literature, departing from the biographical to a more objective, multidisciplinary psychographical approach which seeks not only to document lives, but also ask the question - what made them do it. To answer your question, no, Stalin did not turn into Beso, which you may be interested to know, by a queer (no pun intended) coincidence very closely approximates the Russian word for Bes - the Devil. Any wonder he changed his patrinomic to Vissarionovich (in Georgian as in Hebrew B and V are sometimes interchangeable), and then adopted Stalin. Retaining B would have made the patrinomic Besserionovish. Stalin was probably born, as his natal chart describes him, a "fairly strong personality that is charming and friendly. There is awakened ambition and a perpetual desire for self-improvement. His most conscious objective is attaining wisdom. He had a love of balance and harmony that extends to his treatment of interpersonal relationships. The result of his universal affability is that he was quite popular." Consider his childhood and youth years, what we know of them. A popular child, intelligent, went into the seminary, joins the socialists, then an idealistically-framed party of social change for the betterment of lives of many, is very popular in the party, and gets-by by managing relationships and first becomes know for considerate and wise individual. However, the family environment DID affect him, and the link I provided earlier says it all. He used his innate personality to adjust to the, what is now called the "hero" role to "try to ensure that the family looks "normal" to the rest of the world. In addition, they often project a personal image of achievement, competence, and responsibility to the outside world. They tend to be academically or professionally very successful. The cost of such success is often denial of their own feelings and a belief that they are "imposters." At some stage Stalin departed his innate drive, and assumed the role of the one responsible for "normalcy" of first the party, and the entire USSR, weeding out anyone likely to discredit him, the party and the country to the USSR, and at the same time, Stalin's personality cult was built, praising his success in everything. The cult of personality has long been accepted and documented, but has the personality behind it received similar treatment? Of course needless to say the above is highly OR, and most will laugh at the astrological citation. Never the less, and subject to my scientific explanation of astrology, this is how I see Stalin, a victim of his own child abuse, and abuse of his own potential never realised due to the circumstances of the times he lived in.

Hitler on the other hand was quite pathological.--mrg3105 (comms) ♠♥♦♣ 01:24, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes, indeed. I first came to the life of Stalin through the Trotsky perspective, that of the 'grey blur'. The truth is, as I have said here on a number of occasions, he was at least as intelligent as Trotsky, far more personable as a man, and in every conceivable sense a far better political strategist and tactician. I have now, I think, read just about every biography there is on him in the English language, including, most recently, Simon Sebag Montefiore's Young Stalin. Hitler? Well, I think it one of the great ironies of Stalin's career that he was the only man he ever fully trusted! Clio the Muse (talk) 02:02, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Care to share your impression of Young Stalin? I have neither the time nor resources right now to read more widely.

On cruel and unusual theories of history, I just listened to the BBC report on the finding that Shakespeare was, to quote the historian, "on drugs" when he composed his works. I think its a sad day.

Immediately following that, was the purely unusual, and maybe iconoclastic of England (if not for one American participating); the story of the burial at sea...of a single Nelson's hair purchased on eBay! I reflected on the report that as the miniature coffin was set adrift, it flipped over, and my first thought was that Nelson may have done the same in his grave at the knowledge of such commemoration ;o)

It seems that some people are seeking to earnestly reach...insanity, the final frontier.--mrg3105 (comms) ♠♥♦♣ 05:30, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Ha-ha-ha! Did you know that Napoleon's penis was once sold at auction? Well, you do now!

Young Stalin is the 'prequel' to the author's earlier work, Stalin: the Court of the Red Tsar and is written in the same accessible and discursive style, carrying the scholarship with seductive ease. It's a superb piece of work, based on an extensive range of new sources, including original memoirs, recovered from deep hibernation in the archives in Tbilisi, Moscow and elsewhere. He presents Soso as he was; a talented and multi-faceted individual; an intellectual (he read Plato in the original Greek), a poet, a lover...and a gangster! All of the ruthlessness that became so evident in his later career is there from the very outset. Soso grew up tough; Soso remained tough. I cannot help but feel that Montefiore has not become slightly enamoured of his 'monster', his Koba, in much the same way that Thomas Harris fell in love with his. I would certainly urge you to read it, once you have the time. Clio the Muse (talk) 22:35, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

I know quite a bit about Napoleon, but I think I would have been happier with my knowledge incomplete, an din my ignorance that the Emperor was...I think it cruel

Just for that I will become a billionaire, create a secret lab, steal the artefact and use the DNA to create the new Napoleon...That may be an interesting experience for the EU Parliament MPs ;o)

I was once told by a psychologist that the difference between cops an robbers is that one set wears a uniform ;o) A gangster would therefore be an entrepreneur capitalising on the opportunities in a dynamic marketplace, and the state of affairs in 1920s Russia were very dynamic.

In any case I will try to get hold of the book; thank you for the review! Having written it, you may want to add it to the Amazon page for the book. I don't appreciate the star rating system, but a good review goes a long way to make my mind up about purchasing a book or not.--mrg3105 (comms) ♠♥♦♣ 11:58, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

I actually have reviewed it, Greg, though I was paid for my efforts! Clio the Muse (talk) 01:46, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Is the review in something accessible online?--mrg3105 (comms) ♠♥♦♣ 22:27, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't think so. In any case it comes with my full identity, and I really do have to keep that secret. I feel sure you will understand, Greg. Clio the Muse (talk) 22:33, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Pandemics and Love

Hello Clio: I didn't see the comments you addressed to me on the Ref Desk until just a few minutes ago, it now being a little past 2:00 a.m. my time. You are quite wicked you know, and you did make me laugh, even though you said nothing that was intrinsically funny -quite the opposite, in fact. I am now definitely one of those people on the wrong side of Dismas's balance sheet, having turned 60 yesterday, and I am more than a little miffed at having my worth so lightly dismissed. You are right to point out that such questions are only ever posited by those who don't view themselves as ever being their victims, not even as an "unintended consequence".

As for Mr. Swift's proposal, that may have been the source of a comment my father used to make when people talked about "living on love"; the only way you can do that, he would say, is to eat the babies. It was quite a shocking thing to say over 40 years ago, when there was barely any public acknowledgenet of a connection between "love" and "babies". I don't have a proposal for the winnowing of the population; I think we need all of us, in general, though there are some individuals I would like removed from my vicinity. Even the terminally stupid have a place in society. (I think it was P. J. O'Rourke who said that, without the stupid, the Republicans would have no candidates, and the Democrats no supporters.) ៛ Bielle (talk) 07:09, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

And a very happy birthday to you, dear Bielle. Yes, I suppose you are right; even the stupid serve some purpose, if only to make me laugh! There is, however, one particularly obtuse individual who comes to the Humanities Desk from time to time to voice his fatuous opinions I would be happy to see indulge in a little self-consumption. For reasons of Wikiquette I obviously cannot name him, but I imagine you have some notion of the person to whom I refer. I would like to think that he reads my words knowing exactly their purport and direction, but I suspect that he is too dense even for that! Clio the Muse (talk) 22:44, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Hello

I feel that I ought to introduce myself, as I have taken to trespassing on the Humanities Help Desk and our paths have crossed there (although I think that I may also have come across you on Rockpocket's Talk page?). It's a haven of politeness, general happiness, and intellectual inquiry which, alas, is missing elsewhere and, as far as I can see, a lot of this happy state is owed to you, for which you have my thanks. I'm afraid I'm off now to eat my lunch - a leftover beaver sausage. --Major Bonkers (talk) 13:19, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Hi, Major, and a very warm welcome to the Clio experience! Thank you also for your very kind words; I try to do my best, being as patient and polite as I can. But you should see me when I bite! Yes, I do come to Rockpocket's page from time to time. He is an old friend and protector, who gave me some much needed assistance when I was being stalked by a particularly obsessive and stupid individual. Anyway, please drop in any time you wish. I hope you enjoyed your beaver (I can't write that without laughing!) Clio the Muse (talk) 22:54, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I think that he's one of the best Admins that I've come across. He seems to have had a pretty horrid time recently, so I hope he's enjoying his current tropical holiday. I've been a bit naughty on the Helpdesk, I'm afraid. --Major Bonkers (talk) 14:08, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

How delightful! Clio the Muse (talk) 22:07, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Nietzsche and Love

Dearest Clio, do you know? Mark of Cornwall (talk) 15:45, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

I might, Mark; I just might! Clio the Muse (talk) 22:55, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] George Eliot

My Lady Muse, I agree completely with your answer. It's always easier, in my opinion, to blame a person than a cultural shift! (And i really really detest Cross's biography) But I concede the point - a gentleman always knows when to concede to the fair sex! Yours, Lord Foppington (talk) 23:01, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

An aristocrat and a gentleman: a wonderful combination, sadly not always realised, in my experience anyway! Thank you, my gracious Lord. Clio the Muse (talk) 23:06, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Christabel Pankhurst medallion

Clio, could you help finding the sculptor/medailleur? See Wikipedia:Reference desk/Humanities#Sculptor sought. I think I've exhausted the on-line resources, and my local library has nothing useful either. Maybe you've got better resources at your disposition? Lupo 07:46, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Hi, Lupo. Yes, I saw your question and tried find some reference to the said relief in my library, but with no success at all. Sorry! Clio the Muse (talk) 22:20, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] IP

Hi Clio, sometimes I am reading the Reference Desks at work, where I can't log in to Wikipedia on some of the computers (but on the one I am using at the moment, I can). I try to sign manually but that stupid bot always comes by and exposes me! I know McGonagall too, he's always the best example of a terrible poet, but the Cheese Poet is somewhat of a local legend. And I know poutine well - my high school cafeteria used to serve it for lunch. Sometimes it can also be found at Tim Hortons. I can't stand that stuff! By the way, I made a Crusades "task force" on the Middle Ages WikiProject, if you're interested - I haven't had time to work on the Children's Crusade, as you asked long ago, but I made a note of it there for everyone. Adam Bishop (talk) 02:48, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, Adam. I have Dickson's book on my 'to get' list, which is becoming impossibly long! Yes, I'll come along to your task force. Give me a day or two. Clio the Muse (talk) 02:40, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Promotion

Okay, I'm one day early. Let the Wikilawyers sue me. Retarius | Talk 08:57, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

This is so sweet! ♥ Clio the Muse (talk) 21:58, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Philosophy award

		The Barnstar of High Culture
		thank you for your answers to my questions on philosophy. I cannot say how impressed I am. F Hebert (talk) 11:43, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

People like you make my efforts worthwhile. Clio the Muse (talk) 21:57, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Happy St George's Day!

That's all. BrainyBabe (talk) 06:24, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

That's enough! Thank you, BrainyBabe. This is very much appreciated. Clio the Muse (talk) 21:57, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Greetings! Xn4 23:17, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! Clio the Muse (talk) 23:34, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Retarius, I'll see your Dragon and raise you a George! Don't they make a lovely couple! Clio the Muse (talk) 22:22, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

I've been off Anzacing, blogging and wrestling sharks, so I missed your riposte (ripe post?). As ever, you are beyond surpassing. Champagne comedy, as the Late Show crew used to put it! Retarius | Talk 09:19, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

‎

Thanks, dear Retarius. Speaking of Anzac Day I was hijacked by a party of Aussies at Cambridge going on a trip to Gallipoli a few years ago. The whole thing was quite incredible. Everybody was so nice, especially the Turks. But the one thing I will never forget was the simple and moving words of Kemal Atatürk on the Memorial:

Those heroes who shed their blood and lost their lives, you are now lying in the soil of a friendly country. Therefore rest in peace. There is no difference between the Johnnies and the Mehmets to us where they lie side by side in this country of ours. You, the mothers who sent their sons from far away countries wipe away your tears, your sons are now lying in our bosoms and are in peace. After having lost their lives on this land they become our sons as well.

I broke into tears when I read this. Clio the Muse (talk) 22:02, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes, that's very famous here; a couple of Turkish Army officers took the podium at the Gallipoli Anzac Dawn Service on Friday to read that in Turkish and English. I don't know if any other Head of State has ever given such a tribute before or since to enemy forces. I am sure it has done much to facilitate friendship between Australia, New Zealand and Turkey. Australia lost 61,508 dead as a result of World War I action and, of course, many more wounded and/or maddened by it all. This sitesays it simply and clearly about our many wars. The population of Australia was only about 4 million at the time of WWI. There isn't a family which was established here at the time which didn't lose at least one member, including mine. That was a break in the trunk of a sapling that changed all that might have been for us, forever. I take this and more recent reapings more to heart than my last posting might indicate, in fact it breaks me down every year. Retarius | Talk 06:11, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Indeed. I know how important this is for all Australians. Clio the Muse (talk) 22:03, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Small request

Clio, I wonder if I might trouble you with an impertinent request. I've stumbled across an article, Herrmann Brain Dominance Instrument which for a number of reasons looks a wee bit spammy to me, and am having at it. I have reason to believe that this paper has something to say about HBDI (such as that it's based on a myth). And it occurred to me that you might have electronic access to the article arising out of your academic pursuits. It's a long shot that you'd feel inclined either to find the article & read it, or mail me a copy for wikipedia research purposes, but shy bairns get nowt, and so I make my request. thanks --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:50, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Hi, Tagishsimon. No request for help is impertinent! I'll certainly try. The trouble is I have a really ghastly cold at the moment, so I'm taking a long weekend. I'll get back to you as soon as I am able. Clio the Muse (talk) 22:56, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry to hear that; but if you will hang out in the fens in April :). I hope it clears up soon. Thanks --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:27, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Ha! Thanks, ever so. Clio the Muse (talk) 23:48, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Clio, the good Lord Foppington, evidently a reader of your esteemed talk page, has graciously condescended to supply me with the paper about which we spoke, and so there is no need for you to trouble yourself further on this matter. I hope & trust your tubes are somewhat recovered. --Tagishsimon (talk) 16:34, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Well done, Lord Foppington! I'm not so feverish now, Tagishsimon, thanks. Clio the Muse (talk) 23:04, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Anything to help, my lady! Yours, Lord Foppington (talk) 22:16, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank you, my Lord! Clio the Muse (talk) 22:20, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Random

Haha for the longest time i though you name was "clio the mouse" just felt like tellin you for some reason. БοņёŠɓɤĭĠ₳₯є 05:55, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Ha-ha-ha! The mouse that roared! Thanks, Bones. Clio the Muse (talk) 22:09, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] I have even greater respect for you

I'm in the midst of writing a 30 page thesis on William Cecil's role in the formation of a 'British' mindset in English foreign policy in the early modern period. I have new found respect for just how difficult English/British history can be, not least of all because of the high standards for historical inquiry and scholarship set by people like yourself.

Gradvmedusa (talk) 03:37, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

You are tremendously kind, Gradvmedusa; thank you so much. The very best of luck with your dissertation. It's an excellent choice of subject; among the very best. Clio the Muse (talk) 22:02, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism!

I was about to revert vandalism on your user page, but then noticed it was vandalized by no one else but you! ---Sluzzelin talk 01:09, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Do you mean Boris the Menace? Ha-ha! I think he has served his purpose now, so he can go. Welcome back, dear Sluzzelin! Clio the Muse (talk) 01:17, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

If your page has that power, I might demand its deletion six months from now! ---Sluzzelin talk 01:22, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, I quite like him but not that much! Clio the Muse (talk) 01:36, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Ah, but to really test the powers of Musean endorsement, you need to pick a picture from this list. There's even one wearing a Roman helmet! (though his article is up for deletion) ---Sluzzelin talk 02:07, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

So there is! The one just below him looks crazy, a bit like Jack Nicholson in The Shining! Clio the Muse (talk) 02:25, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Only now do I understand why you had to ask whom I meant. Of course I meant Boris Stanleyich, not Vladimir Ilyich, though I have an inkling which one would make for a more entertaining dinner companion. ---Sluzzelin talk 12:46, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Boris, of course; he's an absolute sweetie! I'm off to a party tonight to celebrate the dear man's London coup, so this is just a flying visit. I'll leave you with this fascinating piece of trivia, Sluzzelin: Boris was elected as mayor on the very day that St. Boris of Bulgaria died! Byeeee, from a very tipsy Anastasia!!!! Clio the Muse (talk) 22:49, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Euphrosyne sources

Hi Clio, do you have a reference for the material on Euphrosyne you put on the reference desk? Your answer greatly expands on the brief statement in the article and I'd like to add it. Thanks for any help, WikiJedits (talk) 13:19, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi, WikiJedits. Yes, indeed I do. You will find the relevant information in Women in Purple: Rulers of Medieval Byzantium by Judith Herrin (Phoenix Press, London, 2001), pages 176-77 of chapter three, the section headed Euphrosyne's Warning of Civil War. Best wishes. Clio the Muse (talk) 22:47, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Great, thank you very much! Have dropped it in. WikiJedits (talk) 17:25, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Excellent! Clio the Muse (talk) 22:54, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] wotcha 2

Dear Lady, still here, been busy, ducking and a diving, wheeling n dealing, bit o this, bit o that (well family, garden, holiday, big pile of books to read, lost broadband connection and general everyday things to do {4 hours ironing, last night [and yes beille that included t-shirts] amazing the amount of clothes 3 kids can go thru, thinking of buying disposable overalls like wot the SOCO's wear at crime scenes}) hope all is well with you, and excuse my nose, but have you sed yes to rich stockbroker boyfriend yet? - sorry small village mentality spilling over into CYPERSPACE!!! that word sed by 50's style voice over of B/W space serials yah? am now rambling, will finish off glass of sinlge malt (a wee nippy sweetie as oor billy wud say) and head to bed, love always Perry-mankster (talk) 21:14, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Just wanted to disambiguate the heading and note that us science types wear disposable underwear and scrubs when we work in full barrier animal facilities. Paper pants are a brilliant invention (not to mention super sexy) - I always steal some for camping trips. You should get hold of some for your kids, Perry. Not only would it save the ironing (you do iron underwear, right?), but they would be the envy of their friends. Rockpocket 21:21, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Hey, Perry, how wonderful to hear from you! Your little one must be quite a big boy by now, and I'm glad to see that he and his siblings are keeping you busy! By your actions you sound like the kind of husband that many women dream of-dedicated, considerate and, above all, hard-working!

Ah, Perry, you have asked me a direct question; what can I do but give you a direct answer, a privilege I would grant to few others. He proposed again the last time we were in Africa. I hesitated, just for a moment, before saying yes. I simply could not bear to see any more disappointment on his face, and, yes, I do love him. We're getting married in the autumn, and then back to Africa for an extended honeymoon. Given the planning involved and all of my other commitments, professional, political and personal, this means that I will not have an awful lot of spare time on my hands in future. It means-and you are the first to know-that I will shortly be abandoning the Wikipedia ship. Sad, but true. I intend to post a note of farewell in the near future. The Age of Clio is, at last, drawing to a close; the sun is going down!

Speaking of disposable underwear, Rockpocket, my father has a huge collection of rock and folk albums from the 1960s and 1970s, including one by a band called Alice Cooper entitled School's Out. You may know it? It's really quite clever, with the cover in the shape of an old school desk. But what fascinated me was that the album itself is contained not in the usual paper sleeve but a pair of disposable pants! Take care, y'all! Clio the Muse (talk) 22:39, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Congratulations, Clio! Shall we watch for the announcement in the Times? ៛ Bielle (talk) 22:55, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, dear Bielle; it has already appeared in The Times (and in The Telegraph) by the courtesy-and on the insistence-of my people! My mother in particular was quite determined. I am, after all, her only daughter, and she was not going to let this pass without the biggest of splashes! Clio the Muse (talk) 23:06, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Great Scott! A slightly more cautious congratulation from me, Clio, but we know you well enough to know you've thought out all the angles. I'm really sad to hear you think you'll vanish from this oasis of culture and Englishness into the night... I have to admit, though, that it strikes me as less than certain, whatever you intend.

I wonder, could you give us a broader hint of the political commitments you've mentioned above? In my experience, most stockbrokers are too sensible to go into politics themselves, but is this one perhaps being lined up as a future political spouse? Xn4 23:20, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Ah, Xn4, Everything begins and Ends at Exactly the Right Time and Place! Your guess is quite right: the politics are mine. But you will understand, I feel sure, that the lady is not to be drawn any further! Clio the Muse (talk) 23:33, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Ah, well. No doubt you know that politics is far more likely to break your heart than any man.

I love that film, and that's my favourite quotation from it! Xn4 23:50, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I know. Perhaps it's just all a dream within a dream. Clio the Muse (talk) 23:54, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

All in Plato, then. Heavens, what do they teach them in these schools? Xn4 00:02, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Ha! Excuse me while I go through the wardrobe. Clio the Muse (talk) 00:34, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Then I'll see you in the Wood between the Worlds. Good night, sweet lady, I'm just about to hit the wooden road to Bedfordshire. Xn4 00:42, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Dream sweetly of Lions and Witches, my Lord! Clio the Muse (talk) 00:45, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Ah, le sommeil est doux quand tombe la pluie / quand le vent du nord murmure tout bas, but soon they'll all be singing Mam'zelle Clio / Mam'zelle Clio / Vous êtes mariée c'est ridicule... (I'll see to that!) ---Euterpe the Muse (talk) 08:14, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Euterpe, dearest of sisters! Clio the Muse (talk) 22:53, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] British commanders negligence on the Western Front during the great war

To what extent can it be argued that the tactics of commanders during the great war were responsible for the mass casualties suffered on the western front. Thanks --Hadseys 19:03, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi, Hadseys. I see you have also posted your question on the Humanities Desk, so that is where I will answer it, for the benefit of all! Clio the Muse (talk) 22:50, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] You can't get married

You belong to me. How will I manage without you?OTMA (talk) 12:07, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, darling! Clio the Muse (talk) 21:59, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Ah, you were like unto the swift flight of a sparrow through our room; and now you'll vanish out of our sight into the dark winter from which you emerged. It has been a pleasure, and somewhat humbling, to read your responses; I'm selfishly sorry that you'll be leaving, but wish you the very best. --Tagishsimon (talk) 01:55, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Tagishsimon, I'm going to enter you for the Sir Boyle Roche Stakes, 2008. You're a promising newcomer to the sport. Xn4 14:41, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm really touched, Tagishsimon, and will, indeed, be flying from the Mead Hall back into the dark very shortly! Clio the Muse (talk) 22:06, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

I am a little fearful of what (or who) will ooze out of the dark behind you. You must agree to drop in from time to time with a bit of late-night reading to cheer us up. Even the busiest politico, professor and/or wife has ten minutes somewhere in a week to keep in touch. You will also have to find a way to let us know when you book comes out. ៛ Bielle (talk) 22:52, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you, Bielle. If it is at all possible I will. Clio the Muse (talk) 22:56, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

This is more hopeful. No doubt I was too grumpy with Tagishsimon, but Bede's metaphor is of the soul passing through life, so outside the hall is death and there's no coming back. Clio has friends here in the warm and the dry and also gets something from the place, so it seems to me that we should be slow to say sad goodbyes! (She can get married, though.) Xn4 14:10, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

You are lovely! Clio the Muse (talk) 22:15, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Madonna of Silences, he can marry you but cannot take you away.—eric 00:35, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The Elven Queen Sails into the West

Well, this is it, everyone: it's time to say farewell. I thought I might stay on for another week or two, but things are mounting up, and having revealed my intentions it's probably a mistake to hang on any longer. After all, there is nothing worse than the long goodbye!

When I came here originally it was really only for some late-night amusement, though over time it has become quite serious, consuming more of my intellectual energy than is perhaps wise. It's been fun, though; well, mostly fun! There are so many people I've made contact with over the past year and a half, people I have come to respect and admire; people who have assisted me in one way or another: collaborators, interlocutors and guides; people I have come to regard as friends, insofar as one can have friends in this unreal medium. I can't mention you all by name but amongst the very best are Sluzzelin, Rockpocket, Xn4, David D, Ghirlandjo, TenofallTrades, Bielle, Perrymankster, Retarius, Eric and Dweller. Please do not feel hurt if I neglected to mention you by name; the list is by no means complete, it's just that I felt these users were deserving of special note.

There is one other person I would like to mention, the gentle, perceptive, sensitive and intelligent Sam Clark, an early associate and friend, who, alas, will probably never see this, for he has long since been driven away by that fatal combination-mediocrity and stupidity. The same forces attempted to gang up against me, but I am tough, oh, yes, I am tough! The more I am under threat the more determined I become. They had no simply no idea what they were up against, absolutely no idea! For I hunt, you see, and I know how one stalks prey!

I'm off to a midnight gathering now, where I will raise a glass or two of champers in toast of you all. I may come back from time to time to see how things are, but I can't be certain. Much love, from Anastasia F-B (that's as much as you get to know!) and from the divine and immortal spirit of history Clio the Muse (talk) 23:16, 9 May 2008 (UTC) [2] Remember this always: things do begin and end at exactly the right time and in exactly the right place.

Namárië! Le hannon a tholel. Xn4 23:45, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Wir stehen selbst enttäuscht und sehn betroffen / Den Vorhang zu und alle Fragen offen.

...Verehrtes Publikum, los, such dir selbst den Schluß! / Es muß ein guter da sein, muß, muß, muß! ---Sluzzelin talk 05:48, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm lost for words. Jet Eldridge (talk) 10:23, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Clio, it has been a pleasure and an honor. You will be sorely missed. Yet I feel sure that we will hear of you again, if not here, then in the broader world. Marco polo (talk) 02:06, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] all the best....

Ahhh Dear lady i knew this day would come, but never felt it would be so sad. I wish you and RSB all the happiness you both deserve. As a cyberfriend, your were my first, my last, my everything. I hope your big day goes as smooth as mine and Mrs Mankster's did (it was a lovely Septemember day, full of sunshine, smiles and laughter, truely one of the best days of my life) as it approaches and things seem to be getting more stressful, never forget why you are doing it, because of love...

O, my luve is like a red, red rose,

That's newly sprung in June.

O, my luve is like the melodie,

That's sweetly play'd in tune

As fair art thou, my bonie lass,

So deep in luve am i,

And i will luve thee still, my dear,

Till a' the seas gang dry.

Till a' the sea's gang dry, my dear,

And the rocks melt wi' the sun!

And i will luve thee still, my dear,

While the sands o'life shall run.

And fare thee weel, my only luve,

And fare thee weel a while!

And i will come again, my luve'

Tho' it were ten thousand mile!

look in once and a while, when Boris isn't keeping you busy, and never doubt you will be sorely missed, right i'm off to have a word with Rockpocket about this paper pants thing he has going on, all my love, your servant as always ( stay gold) X Perry-mankster (talk) 21:42, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Golden Award

I think you deserve this for your many wonderful contributions to the Reference Desk, always a pleasure to read. I am so sorry that you are gone. Topseyturvey (talk) 05:48, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cheerio from Down Under

Clio, I'm not into awards and such like but I couldn't let you go without saying thanks for your fantastic erudition. Go well in all your endeavours. It's been great fun having you around. And remember, we'll still be here if you have nothing to do on a rainy day ... assuming such as thing as spare time exists in your world. -- JackofOz (talk) 16:49, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Musée des Beaux-Arts

“

In Breughel's Icarus, for instance: how everything turns away Quite leisurely from the disaster; the ploughman may Have heard the splash, the forsaken cry, But for him it was not an important failure; the sun shone As it had to on the white legs disappearing into the green Water...

”

Xn4 11:19, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Goodbye sweet Clio

I used to read the Humanities desk as an anon IP. I joined because of you. I thought I might have caught you out with some tricky philosophy questions. I was wrong. I can't believe that you are gone. It's just not the same any more. I wish you happiness, Anastasia. You are irreplaceable. With love and admiration. Steerforth (talk) 18:42, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

No, Clio, no! Who is this awful Fotherington-Thomas who has inveigled his way into your affections?! Who will I share our beaver sausages with now? And - bloody typical - as soon as I find a half-way worthwhile part of Wikipedia, the main contributor up-sticks.

Anyway, best wishes. If you want any advice on sex, please leave a note on my Talk page. --Major Bonkers (talk) 11:39, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

I wish you all the best and thank you for your erudite and witty contributions to the Humanities Reference Desk. Edison (talk) 16:34, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Someone recently trotted out one of your old answers to a question on the Reference Desk. If you have your own archive of your past answers to Ref Desk questions or if someone created an index to them it would be a continuing benefit to that Ref Desk. Edison (talk) 22:49, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Someone (he bows) recently trotted out two of your timeless answers on the Humanities Desk. Both of them were the only runners and did the business. Xn4 22:27, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

As an experiment, I tried Googling "Clio the Muse" and "Reference Desk" and found very little. A more clever search mode would be needed to ferret out your answers by topic. Edison (talk) 22:54, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

I've found the special search string for the Ref Desk archives: you started in Oct 2006, and this one works for posts after that month. To see what you said about Guy Fawkes, use: [site:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives "Clio the Muse" "Guy Fawkes"]. A little more searching is needed to get to the specific postings. Edison (talk) 23:12, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Clio quondam, Clioque futura

Hey, everyone, more positivity! Our earnest thanks to Clio are very seemly, but Major Bonkers hits the right note. No monument to make our Muse bashful about coming back. She's looking in across the Western Sea, and if we're good will drop in from time to time, when other things allow, even if only on the pattern of a visiting comet. Only a few weeks ago, she wrote here:

“

Seriously, guys, even if I did cross over I would still maintain a Clio presence here on the Wikipedia Reference Desk, which provides me with constant stimulation, amusement and the occasional soupcon of drama!. I would be living, so to speak, in parallel universes.

”

Clio has given us far too much of her time, and in return she's taken a mighty pounding from the creatures of the Wild Wood. It can't go on. And here's another thought. So far, by comparison with what it was, I'm finding the Humanities Desk a dismal wilderness without Clio - no one jumps on me with high-spirited glee any more, and no one has a mind like a steel trap. But Clio has never had a Clio here, if you see what I mean. So we need to be brighter, better denizens of the Ref Desk, more appealing creatures of the Rock Pool. Xn4 02:14, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Euterpe speaks

O friend and learned Master Ex En Four

Although your Muse has left this humble shore

And sailed forth to marry, and to wield

Her Machiavellian powers in the field

Of mundane party politics, you must

Remember that she sprinkled magic dust

Upon humanity and on its desk:

May erudition, wit, and some burlesque

Live on in those whose knowledge she inspired

Who held her presence dear, ere she retired.

She may return. Alas, one thing is sure:

Her true intentions oft remain obscure.

She never listened to her sisters eight,

And when berated, she became irate.

When counseled, she ignored, as I recall.

Thus, when Minerva visited us all

On Helicon and pointed out how life

Above was tranquil, Clio needed strife.

And swooped down into noisy, mortal dale.

We tried to hold her back — to no avail.

Should she return, O wise and learned friend,

A hymn of praise is what I recommend,

A tune of Pomp and Circumstance, a song

Of adoration (make it not too long).

As with Minerva’s visit to our Mount,

A variation of Ovid's account:

O brilliant splendid Muse, whatever cause

So great a Goddess to this website draws;

Our shades are happy with so bright a guest,

You, Queen, are welcome, and we users blessed.

---Euterpe the Muse (talk) 02:31, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Have the Elves really gone?

Have they really left Middle-Earth forever? Then the sun has truly gone down, and all we are left with is the Age of Men! Thank you for the memories, Queen Galadriel. Mark of Cornwall (talk) 08:30, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Clio, oh, Clio, you've broken my heart. Admiral Benbow (talk) 18:34, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Restoration Scotland

Hello, Clio. Have you had a chance to see my latest question on the Humanities Desk? Hamish MacLean (talk) 18:47, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Dearest Clio, I lodged this without reading the preceding posts, so I wasn't aware of your departure. I have now been told by Tagishsimon and Gwinva. I'm not quite sure what to say. I do, of course, wish you every happiness for the future, but for entirely selfish reasons I will miss your presence on the Humanities Desk, always an inspiration and a delight. I thank you sincerely for the help you have given me, quite remarkable considering you are neither Scottish nor a specialist in Scottish history. You seem to me to be that rare thing these days-a true Renaissance woman! I see another user has quoted our own dear Robert Burns. Let me leave you with a passage from one of my favourite songs of his, though I really do hope this is not truly forever:

Fare thee weel, thou first and fairest

Fare thee weel, thou best and dearest

Thine be ilka joy and treasure,

Peace, Enjoyment, Love and Pleasure Hamish MacLean (talk) 08:20, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Thank you

I was the one who originally welcomed you to Wikipedia when you came, and I find it fitting to give you (hopefully) your last message in this talk page. I was amazed at how quickly you picked up on the Reference Desk, and I gave you the first of a long series of well-deserved awards, the Exceptional Newcomer Award. For pretty much one and a half years now, I've seen you display a great deal of knowledge and wit, as well as a great willingness to help people. I'll never forget how you helped me with my DYK of Julius Excluded From Heaven. My only regret is not helping you to be more active in the article space, where you could have helped so much more. We will definitely have a harder time answering questions on the Humanities desk. Best of wishes to you, and I hope that you continue to live a real and fulfilling life, and to of course continue your love of history. May Clio, the Muse, continue to guide you. bibliomaniac15 04:05, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] New request!

Hello, my old friend. Hope you're well. I'm looking for a page number from a book for the chart in this section. The book is called "The best of the best: A new look at the great cricketers and their changing times", by Charles Davis. I found two ISBNs: 0733308996 and 978-0733308994. Any chance you can help? I'd much appreciate it. --Dweller (talk) 13:26, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Awesome

		The Barnstar of Awesomeness
		Come Back Soon! Strawless (talk) 17:54, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Goodbye, Ruby Tuesday

She would never say where she came from

Yesterday don't matter if it's gone

While the sun is bright

Or in the darkest night

Nobody knows

She goes and goes

Goodbye, Ruby Tuesday

Who could hang a name on you?

When you change with every new day

Still I'm gonna miss you...

Don't question why she needs to be so free

She'll tell you it's the only way to be

She just can't be chained

To a life where nothing's gained

And nothing's lost

At such a cost

Goodbye, Ruby Tuesday

Who could hang a name on you?

When you change with every new day

Still I'm gonna miss you...

There's no time to lose, I heard her say

Catch your dreams before they slip away

Dying all the time

Lose your dreams

And you will lose your mind.

Ain't life unkind?

Goodbye, Ruby Tuesday

Who could hang a name on you?

When you change with every new day

Still I'm gonna miss you... —Preceding unsigned comment added by I Karamazov (talk • contribs) 22:31, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Ah well

Somebody asked a question about why people celebrate the French Revolution when it was pretty terrible, and I, rather than answering, rubbed my hands together in simple childlike glee, and decided I would wait to hear what you had to say. You never turned up. Several other questions were then asked over the next few days, each juicier than the last; with each grew my puzzlement at the increasingly severe local shortage of Clio.

You are no doubt wise to do this. But, when you discover that telling the gardener about Eleanor of Aquitaine palls, and when you notice the chap who sells you the morning paper resolutely fails to ask you what you know about William James and spiritualism, you might begin to question the utility of such wisdom. When wisdom falls by the wayside, as surely it must, you will be welcomed again with huzzahs and all possible demonstrations of joy. --Relata refero (disp.) 19:42, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Ah, and think of all the puzzled NYT readers you're missing.... --Relata refero (disp.) 22:42, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] We shiver

As we dimly foresaw, Clio, the Humanities Reference Desk has changed utterly without you! Some of our companions have blown away on the cold north wind, the zing has gone, and even the serious historical and philosophical questions are softly and silently vanishing away. Such a sea change couldn't have been foretold, and in the words of the poet Masefield "...to go is royal and liker a queen than to stay", but... but...
Missing you,
Xn4 01:24, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

"Bare ruined choirs, where late the sweet birds sang . . ." I too miss you! (althoughIabhoryourpolitics,butthatdontmeanathing)--Eriastrum (talk) 20:49, 31 May 2008 (UTC)