Talk:Clip (ammunition)

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Contents 1 Re the fact that many people call magazines "clips", and how Wikipedia presents both the de facto usage and the preferred distinction 1.1 2006-07-26 1.2 2007-01-16 2 New name for the article 3 Historical Origin of Stripper and En Bloc Clips

[edit] Re the fact that many people call magazines "clips", and how Wikipedia presents both the de facto usage and the preferred distinction

The current article opener sums it up succinctly:

A clip is a device that is used to store multiple rounds of ammunition together as a unit, ready for insertion into the magazine of a repeating firearm. This speeds up the process of loading the firearm as several rounds can be loaded at once, rather than one round being loaded at a time. Several different types of clips exist, most of which are made of inexpensive metal stampings that are designed to be disposable, though they are often re-used.

The term clip is commonly used to describe a firearm magazine, generally a specific type of magazine known as a detachable box magazine, or even a firearm belt. These uses of the term are incorrect; a clip is used to load a magazine, while a magazine or a belt is used to load a firearm.

[edit] 2006-07-26

I think someone is grumpy over non-gun fanatics and their sloppy unproffesional regard for things he hold for sacred, what with 30% of the article being a preventive correction.

A clip can be defined as "a mechanical device for holding something and supplying it as needed", by the way. A fine description of a magazine I think. [unsigned]

It can be, but it isn't. Clip and magazine are two terms with very clear definitions that are not the same thing. A fork and a spoon are both implements designed to facilitate the consumption of food, but that doesn't mean they're the same thing. Deleuze 02:35, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 2007-01-16

Thanks for the recent revert, Squalla. The edit summary had the ring of good faith, but wow, those edits … that would require some defense here on the talk page. Lumbercutter 02:46, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New name for the article

With the huge rise of clip culture on the internet during 2006 the magazine word can no longer be considered the most notable use of the word clip, hence my creating the new title and redirecting clip to the disambiguation page. TV Genius 01:22, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Historical Origin of Stripper and En Bloc Clips

According to Ian Hogg's Military Small Arms of the 20th Century (7th Ed., p.180), the French 1890 Berthier Calvary Carbine utilized a clip containing 3 rounds which was loaded into the magazine along with the ammunition. It was then ejected from the bottom of rifle after all rounds were expended. This is an en-bloc clip, not a stripper clip, and should be noted as such in this article.

The stripper clip or charger was apparently introduced on the 1889 Belgian Mauser. This is noted on page 174 of the same publication referenced above, as well as this link, which I referenced on the clip page itself. Incidentally, the 1889 Belgian Mauser was designed in Germany by Mauser (ostensibly under the supervision of Paul Mauser himself, though I have not yet been able to verify this), the Belgian government purchased a production license from Mauser, and the first rifle manufactured by Fabrique Nationale was in fact the 1889 Belgian Mauser.

It should also be noted that the French 1890 Bethier Calvary Carbine was introduced in the same year as the 1890 Mannlicher Calvary Carbine (upon which the M1895 Steyr-Mannlicher [sic] was based), thus it is difficult to tell which rifle was the origin of the en-bloc clip. If anyone has any more information, it would be appreciated. Until this can be confirmed, the line "The first rifle to use an en bloc design was the M1895 Steyr-Mannlicher." should be omitted from the article. Raygun 06:18, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Looking into the en-bloc clip further, it appears that neither the French 1890 Bethier Calvary Carbine nor the 1890 Mannlicher Calvary Carbine were the first to use it. The earliest rifle I have yet found to use the en-bloc clip is the Mannlicher M1885. Raygun 07:54, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Which was preceded by the Italian 1884 Vetterli-Vitali charger clip (inserted en bloc, pulled out manually after last shot). Carcano, 11th February 2008