Talk:Clear script

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In Xinjiang the Mongols are not called Kalmyk! It is considered derogatory.

Contents

[edit] change title

I think this article should be titled "Todo script" (or even "Clear script"), in line with other similar articles. Any objections? --Latebird 23:58, 20 February 2007 (UTC)


Todo bichig, Todu bičig, Todo bičig, Todu üsüg, Tod üseg, only to mention some variants available for transcribing that title. Thus, only for "Todu", there are three variants. Therefore, the most suitable title would be "Clear script". G Purevdorj 13:28, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

The exact transliteration is a seperate question (that would depend on the final form of Wikipedia:Romanization of Mongolian). A fully english title is of course best, if that is considered appropriate. I'm going to rename the article then.
Btw: Is the clear script really specifically kalmyk? Most sources seem to list it as a mongolian script. --Latebird 14:09, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] characters image

I've updated the picture to a png, which ought to be better. If anybody knows the IPA and either changes that or gives me the IPA so that I can change it that would be very nice. Also this is all the letters that showed up last time, is it all the letters?--Erkin2008 23:39, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

The vertical layout is much better, thanks! For the latin characters in the table, I think that scholarly transliteration would be most appropriate (it's a linguistic topic). A table for classical Mongolian can be found at Mongolian.pdf, although I'm not sure if there is an obvious correspondence for all characters of the Clear Script.
Now I just wish we had a similar character table for classical Mongolian.... --Latebird 15:14, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sample Texts

I can't seem to decipher this very well. If somebody can, and posts the latin that would be very helpful to whoever would come here. I also can then put it in the standard font. --Erkin2008 21:08, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Um, don't we have any examples that are more appropriate for the predominantly buddhist context than bible verses? --Latebird 07:40, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
I think most of the Bhuddist documents were in Tibetian, some of them were translated into Kalmyk is well I think, but the Tibetian ones were used the most. --Erkin2008 20:12, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New Chart

I'm putting it on the talk page while I update it, when it's complete I'll exchange it. Anyone else is welcome to work on it while it's here. For I start I've copied the Classical Mongolian chart.


Characters Transliteration Notes
initial medial final Latin Cyrillic
Image:Todo a head.png Image:Todo a middle 2.jpg Image:Todo a tail 1.jpgImage:Mongol a tail 2.jpg a А Distinction usually by vowel harmony (see also q/γ and k/g below)
Image:Mongol e head.jpg e Э
Image:Mongol i head.jpg Image:Mongol i middle1.jpg[1]

Image:Mongol i middle2.jpg[2]

 Image:Mongol i tail2.jpg i, yi И,Й, Ы, Ь At end of word today often absorbed into preceding syllable
Image:Mongol o head.jpg Image:Mongol o middle.jpg Image:Mongol o tail.jpg o, u О, У Distinction depending on context.
Image:Mongol oe head.jpg Image:Mongol o middle.jpgImage:Mongol oe middle.jpg Image:Mongol o tail.jpgImage:Mongol oe tail.jpg ö, ü Ө, Ү Distinction depending on context.
Image:Mongol n head.jpg Image:Mongol n middle.jpg[3]

Image:Mongol a middle 2.jpg[4]

 Image:Mongol a tail 1.jpg n Н Distinction from medial and final a/e by position in syllable sequence.
Image:Mongol mng middle.jpg Image:Mongol ngt tail.jpg ng Н, НГ Only at end of word (medial for composites).

Transcribes Tibetan ང; Sanskrit ङ.
Image:Mongol b head.jpg Image:Mongol mbm middle.jpg‎ Image:Mongol b tail.jpg b Б, В
Image:Mongol p head.jpg Image:Mongol p middle.jpg‎ p П Only at the beginning of Mongolian words.

Transcribes Tibetan པ;
Image:Mongol q head.jpg Image:Mongol q middle.jpg Image:Mongol ga tail.jpg q Х Only with back vowels
Image:Mongol ga head.jpg Image:Mongol ga middle.jpgImage:Mongol q middle.jpg Image:Mongol ga tail.jpg Image:Mongol ga tail3.jpg γ Г Only with back vowels.

Between vowels today pronounced as long vowel.[5]
Image:Mongol k head.jpg Image:Mongol k middle.jpg Image:Mongol g tail.jpg k Х Only with front vowels.

g between vowels today pronounced as long vowel.[6]
g Г
Image:Mongol m head.jpg Image:Mongol m middle.jpg Image:Mongol m tail.jpg m М
Image:Mongol l head.jpg Image:Mongol l middle.jpg Image:Mongol l tail.jpg l Л
Image:Mongol s head.jpg Image:Mongol s middle.jpg Image:Mongol s tail.jpg s С
Image:Mongol sh head.jpg Image:Mongol sh middle.jpg Image:Mongol sh tail.jpg š Ш Pronunciation of this character hasn't changed.
Image:Mongol t head2.jpg Image:Mongol t middle.jpgImage:Mongol t middle2.jpgImage:Mongol t middle3.jpg Image:Mongol t tail.jpg t, d Т, Д Distinction depending on context.
Image:Mongol ac.jpg Image:Mongol ac.jpg č Ч, Ц Originally no distinction between /tʃ'/ and /ts'/, today by context.
Image:Mongol j1 head.jpg Image:Mongol j1 middle.jpg ǰ Ж, З Distinction by context.

Originally often interchanged with y below.
Image:Mongol y1 head.jpg Image:Mongol y1 middle.jpg Image:Mongol i tail2.jpg y Е, Ё, И, Ю, Я Part of diphthongs, although technically a consonant.
Image:Mongol r1 head.jpg Image:Mongol r1 middle.jpg Image:Mongol r tail2.jpg r Р Not normally at the beginning of words.[7]
Image:Mongol w head.jpg Image:Mongol w middle.jpg v В Transcribes Sanskrit व.
Image:Mongol f head.jpg Image:Mongol f middle.jpg‎ f Ф Medieval Mongolian didn't use this sound.
Image:Mongol kk head.jpg Image:Mongol kk middle.jpg ḳ К Transcribes Russian К.
Image:Mongol ts.jpg Image:Mongol ts.jpg (c) (ц) Transcribes Tibetan /ts'/ ཚ; Sanskrit छ.
Image:Mongol dz.jpg Image:Mongol dz.jpg (z) (з) Transcribes Tibetan /dz/ ཛ; Sanskrit ज.
Image:Mongol h head.jpg Image:Mongol h middle.jpg (h) Transcribes Tibetan /h/ ཧ, ྷ; Sanskrit ह.