User talk:Clayoquot
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[edit] Thank you
for the lovely image. i like "taxonomy and evolution". i would contribute more, but have myself just returned from playing in the snow and barely have the strength for this: 
. Best, Eliezg (talk) 07:23, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Otter encore
Thanks Clay. I think I have it covered with "Giant Otters clear significant amounts of vegetation in constructing their campsites. One report suggests maximum areas 28 m long and 15 m wide, well-marked by scent glands, urine, and feces to signal territory" in Distribution and habitat.
A Q on organization: where best to place Distribution? With Habitat, with Conservation, or on its own? I currently have it with the first but I don't like discussing the countries once, and then coming back to them again under Conservation. Marskell (talk) 11:54, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
- That's always a tough one. One idea is:
- Move this to the Taxonomy section: "The subspecies P. b. brasiliensis is distributed across the north of the range, including the Orinoco, Amazon, and Guianas river systems; to the south, P. b. paraguensis has been suggested in Paraguay, Uruguay, southern Brazil, and northern Argentina,[5] although it may be extinct in the last three of these four." The discussion on taxonomy should also explain how the subspecies are reported to differ.
- Move this to Conservation: "The Giant Otter has lost as much as 80% if its South American range.[43] While still present in a number of north-central countries, Giant Otter populations are under considerable stress."
- Realistically, you'll have to list countries at least twice in an article like this because many aspects of the topic are tied up with geography. Good luck! Best wishes, Kla’quot (talk | contribs) 19:19, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
-
- Yes, that rationalization makes sense and I've adopted it. I didn't want to lose the word "Distribution" in the ToC, but I have added it in a headline beside "Population." I think "Distribution" or "Range" should appear in the Sea Otter ToC, similarly.
-
- You're really setting a new standard for mammal articles with that. It's superb. I just took Giant Otter to FAC and had thought "well, this can't be FA if it's not as long as Sea Otter." But the research just isn't there. I have squeezed out as much as I think a Wikipedia page logically needs. Marskell (talk) 20:39, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
- Thanks Marskell, your comments are deeply appreciated. When I started with Sea otter by putting up a few pictures, I had no idea how compelling the work would turn out to be. I don't know if I'll ever be that committed to an article again. I must say when I noticed you were working on Giant Otter I couldn't imagine what you saw in these animals, but after reading the article I appreciate them now. It's a good story, and well-told. Take care, Kla’quot (talk | contribs) 05:39, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
- You're really setting a new standard for mammal articles with that. It's superb. I just took Giant Otter to FAC and had thought "well, this can't be FA if it's not as long as Sea Otter." But the research just isn't there. I have squeezed out as much as I think a Wikipedia page logically needs. Marskell (talk) 20:39, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Sleep
Hi! I've just made myself a sleep-list, a one-man project, in my sandbox which you may look at if you like. It should keep me busy for a while. --Hordaland (talk) 07:07, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Mammal collab
OK, I'll set this up here - feel free to nominate and foraward to any other editor interested in furry critters. We'll see how it flies and I'll drop a note in the signpost.
Nominating key articles is ok, even if you can't work on them. cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:06, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Copyrighted photos
I got permission from both of then to use their photos. Apparently that's not enough so I emailed asking them to allow their photos to be licensed under Creative Commons. Hopefully they'll respond quickly. Bobisbob (talk) 17:13, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
Just so you know I am gonna replace that photo with a different one. I got permission from the copyright holder to use a different photo. I am just waiting for him to give the okay to Creative Commons. Bobisbob (talk) 23:32, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
All the photos I upload and I got permission form the holder and forworded it to permissions-commons@wikimedia.org. Bobisbob (talk) 15:02, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Sea otter conservation
 |
On 9 February 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Sea otter conservation, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page. |
--BorgQueen (talk) 10:03, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] collaboration -to start the ball rolling
[edit] Image:LionChaseZebra-cropped.jpg listed for deletion
An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:LionChaseZebra-cropped.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Kla’quot (talk | contribs) 06:03, 15 February 2008 (UTC) Kla’quot (talk | contribs) 06:03, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
- Replied at the discussion about the image you listed for deletion and two other images tagged for deletion at Lion. As you can see in my discussion at each, I agree with your proposal to delete them. Thanks for the notice and am glad someone took action about these images. The one you notified me about was one that, in order to prevent an edit war, I cropped to remove the copyright notice when another editor insisted upon inserting the image. Think there are plenty of appropriate images freely available for the article. Thanks again, 83d40m (talk) 23:50, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] copyrighted photo
I new to uploading pic on wikipedia so if merely getting permission from the copyright holder is not enough then do what with them. But I really thinkwe need photos to be put in their place notably the female buttocks one. wikicommons doesn't have any good ones.
the pic of the lion and the zebras was in fact released under CC by the owner and wikipedia gave them a thank you email so that can stay.
as for the orca/sea lion pic if it is from a BBC film then can't it be marked with fair use? Bobisbob (talk) 14:02, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
- It would not be fair use in the Orca article. I have to run to work soon but will write more later. For the "Pat Orca" picture, who did you get permission from? The problem in this case is that whoever it was almost certainly wasn't the copyright holder. Kla’quot (talk | contribs) 17:21, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
- Bob, one thing I can suggest is that you request a mentor who is knowledgeable about image policy. If you see an image somewhere that you think could be used on Wikipedia, you could send the link to your mentor and that person could give you an opinion on whether it is suitable, and could help you tag the image correctly. That would save you the frustration of uploading the image and then having it be deleted. Would you be willing to give this a try? Kla’quot (talk | contribs) 08:50, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
Sure alright. Can you get me one. Bobisbob (talk) 21:28, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
- Great! You can start here Wikipedia:Adopt-a-User/Adoptee's Area. One of the people who seems experienced with images is User:JodyB. If you like you could drop him a note asking if he's willing to adopt you, and then you're set. Kla’quot (talk | contribs) 07:31, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
I sent him a message. He hasn't responsed yet. Is there anyone else? Bobisbob (talk) 22:40, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
- Yes. Try adding {{subst:dated adoptme}} to your user page, and someone should drop by. Good luck! Kla’quot (talk | contribs) 18:31, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Wickaninnish Inn
Hey Kla’quot! All the article said was:
- The Wickaninnish Inn is a 75 room luxury resort located on the rocky headlands at the westernmost point of Tofino's Chesterman Beach, on the rugged west coast of Vancouver Island, British Columbia.
That was the whole article, and probably why I deleted it (hey, it was eight months ago!) Feel free to create a new version of this article, providing (of course!) it's reliably referenced and asserts why this inn is notable among other (lesser?) inns. If you can't do that, please don't create the article as it will end up getting deleted. You could work on it in your userpsace first if you think this might take time, and just move it when it's done. Providing there's notability shown and it's referenced, no problem with you making that red link blue again. Cheers, Neıl ☎ 09:28, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Thank you
This was kind of you. Thank you. SlimVirgin (talk)(contribs) 19:32, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Song Thrush
I've fixed the text as far as I can. It's not unusual for LC species to be protected - the default position in most countries is that all non-pest species are protected, except for quarry species during the hunting season.
Your image suggestions make sense, but I have two queries
- How can I invert the image to face the other way? My basic image editor appear only to let me rotate, which, of course, turns the bird upside down.
- How can I tell that those Flickr images are free and compatible with the GFDL - I can't see any obvious indication, and I don't want to run into copyright problems at FAC?
Thanks, Jimfbleak (talk) 06:44, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
- Hi Jim. Although photo-editing apps can give you the mirror image, I was think of just putting "left" instead of "right" or vice-versa in the wikimarkup. I.e. change the location of the image, not the image itself. I would usually not change an image of an animal into its mirror version, because many species have some form of left/right handedness or assymetric markings.
- In Flickr, to the right of each photograph you can see a variety of details. One of the details is the copyright status. Usually it's "All rights reserved" but for some images you'll see "Some rights reserved." If you click on the "Some rights reserved" you can see more details. If the conditions allow modification and do not forbid commmercial use, it's Wikipedia-worthy (assuming the person who posted the photo actually took it). You can search for free-licensed pictures using http://www.flickr.com/search/advanced/ - just select the three checkboxes at the bottom. More information, if you need it, is here: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Flickr_images . Good luck! Kla’quot (talk | contribs) 07:10, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] award well deserved
_Alt.png/100px-Wildlife_Barnstar_(V5)_Alt.png) |
The Fauna Barnstar | |
| To Clayoquot, for all her fine work on furry and not-so-furry critters, culminating in the damn fine Sea Otter.....Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:37, 2 March 2008 (UTC) |
- Thanks Cas! Kla’quot (talk | contribs) 05:19, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
- http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Sea-otter-morro-bay_13.jpg 89.204.246.137 (talk) 11:02, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] congratulations and thank you ...
... for the acknowledgements and the star thingy, though my contributions to the sea otter were at best like those of a page turner to your pianism. I've been rather scarce around these parts lately, since overwhelmed with research projects; but at least one of these involves movements of real sea otters around the olympic peninsula, so that's exciting. Anyways, bravo, bravo! - Eliezg (talk) 15:32, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Good questions, good article
Unlike an awful lot that's written on the matter, this is intelligent material.
I had never heard of this Marsden person till the article about her popped up on WP:AN/I or similar and I thought I'd give a hand. Still, that was some time before the Wales connection was brought up here. In the last couple of days, I've been making the various comments in Talk:Rachel Marsden, comments that I suppose might be read as saying that there's nothing to worry about, move along. But that's not at all what I think. Some things here are worrying indeed, quite unlike trivia such as who's broken up with whom and who's selling what on Fleabay.
I particularly appreciated the link to this page of yours. The word "blog" usually makes my eyes glaze, but it's postings like yours that redeem the notion of blogs. I've read that article of yours carefully and later I'll read it again; it's worth any number of other people's little harrumphs on this or that talk page. I hope it turns out to have some influence on Wikipedia, which indeed seems intent on whitewashing stuff that's significant about Marsden, and not only trivia about her. -- Hoary (talk) 09:46, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
I also think you did a nice job of writing on the blog. It does shed some interesting perspective on this situation, and hopefully will lead to more transparency and better policies. I did add a bit however which might add some information which might not always be so obvious.
The American system is actually at its root quite different than the Canadian system. Canadians think they know the US from viewing it on TV and in the movies; their newspapers are full of American news. However, at its core, the US is a very very different place, for many reasons. The biggest, I would say, is that it is legal in the US to buy yourself your own laws. This is strictly forbidden in Canada, but it is a normal part of business in the US. And so, people see the US violate international trade agreements (like on BC timber) and cannot understand why. I will tell you why; someone bought that US decision. Same with the US relationship with Israel and Cuba and many other strange behaviors; they are bought and paid for. But from the outside, this might not be so obvious.--Filll (talk) 17:09, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the thoughtful blog and questions, Kla’quot. There's been a growing problem with handling of BLP cases, and there's clearly a need for reform. Hope this all works out, your research and insight have been an immense help already. .. dave souza, talk 23:18, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Hear, hear!
Exactly what I would have said. So lame. Sigh. --JayHenry (talk) 08:15, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Polar Bear
I never was too big on furry things, rather than feathery, scaley or fungal ones...glad someone's taking up the baton and shouldn't need too much. Maybe this'd work better if there was a main player and helpers. I owe you one for help on various collabs so if you're willing to take the bull by the horns on this one I am happy to tag along and help out and you can decide when it's ready to nominate etc. Would you be okay with that? Casliber (talk · contribs) 22:46, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
- Yes, yes! Right now I'm trying to make the article useful with respect to the proposed Endangered Species Act listing. It may be a while before I can pay attention to the parts on basic biology, and there is a whack of interesting stuff on indigenous myths and legends that needs to be added. Do you want to take a look at either of those? Kla’quot (talk | contribs) 22:53, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
(outdent) Looks more promising than Common Raven did anyway, am also working at the other pole on Emperor Penguin....Casliber (talk · contribs) 23:47, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] JSYK
interesting thread which may be helpful Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:09, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
- Thanksies Cas! If it's hard to find sources, don't worry as my local library has lots. I imagine Canadian libraries have more books on the polar bear than Australian ones, whereas you probably have more on the penguins. Cheers, Kla’quot (talk | contribs) 16:32, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
-
- Phew! I am mightily relieved your library has something. I hate leaving out material I cannot reference. Speaking of which, I have developed Emperor Penguin up to a point and felt it was at a good staging point and qualified for GA status so plopped it there. GAN doesn't have a strict requirement about refs but I'll need refs for the pop culture things before FAC. Feel free to have a read through and copyedit anything that doesn't flow well, and let me know if you think anything glaring is missing. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:22, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] comment removing
It's (supposed to be) a harmless analogy. Sceptre (talk) 19:42, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
- I will reply on your Talk page to keep the thread together. Cheers, Kla’quot (talk | contribs) 19:59, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] image cropping
How do I crop an image? Bobisbob (talk) 01:29, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
- Cropping is not difficult to do, but it's difficult to explain in text. It depends on what kind of computer you have and what software you have on it. I suggest asking someone you know in real-life instead, e.g. a friend who has photography as a hobby, as they could show you quite easily. By the way you might have missed my post above: If you are still interested, try adding {{subst:dated adoptme}} to your user page, and someone should drop by with an offer to adopt you. Best, Kla’quot (talk | contribs) 04:32, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] What polar bears do in the summer
| Grizzly bear | ||||||||||||||||
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 Ursus arctos horribilis
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| Scientific classification | ||||||||||||||||
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| Trinomial name | ||||||||||||||||
| Ursus arctos horribilis (Ord, 1815) |
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 Range map
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The sentence cracked me up, mainly due to this Aussie icon....[1]...there should be some funny ads on youtube too Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:59, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
You just made me think of an idea for April Fool's day. We could do a few of these (or lots?) What do you think? Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 05:24, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
XD or ROFL...Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 06:52, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
- [2] - 2 commericals
- [3] - bundy bear at end
More bundy bear commercials....
- [4] and another...
- Thank you, although I barely understand the English in some of them. Must re-watch later. :) Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 08:35, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Richard Dawkins
Hello Clayoquot. How are you? Please see the biography of Richard Dawkins. How do you rate the biography? Do you think it is ready for the FA status? Regards, Masterpiece2000 (talk) 13:10, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
- Hi Masterpiece. I'm just catching up on wiki stuff after being busy for the past few days, but will try to take a look in the next day or two. If not, I'll definitely drop by when it's at FAC. Good luck! Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 05:47, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
- Hi again. I took a closer look, and it's a very interesting article with lots of great information and solid referencing. The main areas that still could use attention, I think, are the Evolutionary Biology section and copyediting. In the Evolutionary Biology section, a lot of deep ideas come thick and fast and a general audience would probably not be able to grasp it. I think it is fair to assume that people have a rough idea of what evolution, natural selection, and genes are. Most people would not know about things like spandrels, group selection, Darwin Wars, and units of selection. These concepts could use further explanation. In terms of copyediting, here are some examples:
-
- Unnecessary use of quotation marks, e.g. "overstates the case against religion" doesn't need quotes
- David Nicholls (writer) - why not just "David Nicholls"
- "which has achieved greater sales figures worldwide than any of his other works to date" - could be compressed to "which is his best-selling work"
- Gould referred to by last-name-only, and then later by full name. The full name should be used first.
- My feeling is that in its current form, it would not breeze through FAC, however as this is a popular topic you could probably find one or two people to join your team and get it there with a bit of extra work. It's very close to meeting criteria. I sure wish I had the time and energy for this one! I'm not a regular at FAC, so please take these comments with a grain of salt. Good luck! Best, Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 06:03, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] See your picture
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Sea-otter-morro-bay_13.jpg 89.204.246.137 (talk) 11:03, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] FYI
In case you're not watching: the support group link has been removed from DSPS. --Hordaland (talk) 12:27, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
- I'm watching :) Thanks for the note though. I had to think about this one. Do you know if the niteowl list itself has been discussed in any reliable sources? If yes, it could be mentioned in the actual article. Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 22:02, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
- We're not too PR-minded, but we oughta be. I'll try pushing. --Hordaland (talk) 23:27, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
- Perhaps one of the physicians on the list would be willing to say something about it on the website of the hospital or university where they work. That would count. Research-oriented professionals may also find it appropriate to mention the list in a scholarly journal. Cheers, Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 02:05, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
- We're not too PR-minded, but we oughta be. I'll try pushing. --Hordaland (talk) 23:27, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Meet up
Inquiry. Was this meet up for the WikiProject Vancouver and its members or for the UBC division who had been doing the collaboration on the Latin America articles? Mkdwtalk 06:59, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
- Everyone, I hope! Do you want to take the lead in setting it up? If not, I could do it. Cheers, Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 07:01, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
-
- I'm setting up Wikipedia:WikiProject Vancouver/Meetup 2008 as we speak... Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 07:26, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the notice about the meetup; I'll try to make it. Hopefully the turnout will be better than the one person that showed up when I tried this in Sept. 2005. Eclecticology (talk) 16:38, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah, I hope so too! And I do hope you'll make it. Cheers, Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 03:34, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
- Thanks for the invite. I'll be there =) OldManRivers (talk) 16:24, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] AfD nomination of Orca attacks on humans
I have nominated Orca attacks on humans, an article you created, for deletion. I do not feel that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Orca attacks on humans. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. Do you want to opt out of receiving this notice? Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 04:56, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Ursus maritimus
Hey, Clayoquot, I just saw all of your hard work at polar bear; it looks fantastic! I especially like the addition of Knut's stamp, which I discovered at the Commons just the other day. Please do let me know if/when the article appears at Peer Review or FAC, as I'd love to help in any way I can. Although I know nothing about biology/taxonomy, the polar bear has always been my favorite animal and I'd appreciate an excuse to geek out about them. :) Keep up the cute and fuzzy great work, María (habla conmigo) 16:02, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
- Thanks María! Yes, I'll be sure to let you know when I think it's ready. The cubs sure are cute... I need to add some pictures of adult males to the article to balance all the mom+baby pictures that I couldn't resist. Cheers! Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 16:29, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Sea Otters
Hi,Clayoquot.
Today I took few images of sea otter using a rock to break a shell 
. It is a rare, hard to photograph behavior. IMO one of the images would add value to the article because the article describes this kind of behavior. May I please ask you what do you think? Thank you--Mbz1 (talk) 00:27, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
- I think the picture is useful, and you were lucky to take it. I don't know why it got reverted. The article is quite picture-heavy at the moment but I think it's a good addition. Cheers, Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 02:49, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Apologies
Hi there, I wish to apologise for being stubborn and not realizing the fact that you were right, and I was wrong. I am so sorry. Really. I hope you understand. If there was a Barnstar of apology, or something like that, because then I would give you it. Sorry! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Camcd93 (talk • contribs) 08:51, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
- Thanks for your note; it fixes things. Take care, Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 15:32, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] RE: Your Warning
I didn't mean to do that, I did not realise this was defamatory that I restored. Besides, you can't give me that high a level warning straight away, as I did not have any other warnings previously. Thankyou. Camcd93 (talk) 04:36, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] LAC Images
Hi, I left a long answer at my talk. I hope I didn't say anywhere that this would be easy ;)
If you do want to work on it, note your work on each image on my PictureBox page, we can keep track of our work and compare notes. Once I work up a little procedure, I'll update the pbox and post to CWNB looking for more help. Cheers! Franamax (talk) 20:07, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Just to say hai
Tinucherian has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend or a possibly new friend. Cheers, and happy editing!
Smile at others by adding {{subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.
Have a great day ! -- TinuCherian (Wanna Talk?) - 10:36, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] RfA thanks!
 |
RfA: Many thanks | |
| Many thanks for your participation in my recent request for adminship. I am impressed by the amount of thought that goes into people's contribution to the RfA process, and humbled that so many have chosen to trust me with this new responsibility. I step into this new role cautiously, but will do my very best to live up to your kind words and expectations, and to further the project of the encyclopedia. Again, thank you. --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 05:43, 18 May 2008 (UTC) |
[edit] Thanks
Aww... thanks for the barnstar. That really made my day when I logged on the site! I went through a long spell of Wikiworthlessness but I've been pretty productive again the last several weeks. I'm thinking about even tackling an animal again which I haven't done in awhile. When are you taking Polar Bear to FAC?? --JayHenry (talk) 01:52, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
- My pleasure, of course! I haven't edited much in the past couple of weeks because of vacation and then post-vacation. There are some other wikithings I'd like to catch up on, taking a bit of a break from Polar Bear, and then I think it will need a few hundred more edits. It's quite a complex topic and the latest news from the U.S. is so, er, nuanced that I get a metaphorical headache just thinking about how to write it :( Take care and see you around! Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 03:49, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Re: Peter Wall
Hiya. Thanks for helping out with this. FWIW, I added the "declines to give his age" quotation to show why the article doesn't include a date of birth, as most bio articles do. But no biggie at all. --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 03:39, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
