Talk:Clave (rhythm)
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Why don't you just save a correct rumba cleve image under a slightly different name and link from there? Mikkalai 19:43, 21 Feb 2004 (UTC)
- After much faffing about, I think it's fixed now. --Camembert
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[edit] Son Clave Midi File
The rhythm in the midi file associated with the "Son clave" does not match up with the rhythm represented in the image associated with the "Son clave." Someone who knows more about the topic should fix one or the other. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Danreitz (talk • contribs) 05:30, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Images
I think the current images used to describe the various clave rhythms are a bit confusing for two reasons:
1) As the clave is a rhythmic pattern it's not really interesting which tone is being played and for how long it's being held. Because of this I think standard musical notation is an unnecessarily complex way of describing it for the unknowing.
2) Sticking to standard musical notation the current note and rest durations seem a bit out of place to me. The external article An Introduction to Clave Theory has a version that I feel is the most correct way of describing the clave with standard notation.
The same article also has a good example of an alternate way of graphically representing the clave which I believe is much easier to understand for those who have not studied standard musical notation.
Could someone make an image like that, or maybe construct one using HTML tables?
It's also possible to explain the clave in basic text as done in the current version of salsa (music), using "pre"-tags like this:
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 * * * * *
...but images are always nice :)
- Wintran 17:19, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
[edit] Edits moved to talk page
Edit by User:66.248.34.52 at 08:19, 19 October 2005.
- (Possible exceptions would be all those of Yoruba-Congo descent outside of Cuba. Most slaves brought to English controlled colonies such as Jamaica or the future USA were from what is now Nigeria. The music of these Calabali is noticeably different from the music of Cuba, suggesting that Nigerian origin is not the key difference between Cuban music and other types of black music.) Because the those of slave descent from NIgeria are newer they ar
Reasons for moving: Feels a bit out of place, and end sentence is not finished.
- Wintran 12:36, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Sample
I knocked this up in a few minutes. I don't claim it's good, but if you agree it's better than nothing I'll move it on the body of the article.
James barton 13:40, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Recent update
I Removed part about Brazilian music being largely clave-less, and added examples of clave patterns in traditional Brazilian music. Even though clave is played on claves, it doesn't mean that if it is played on another intrument it is not a clave.
In the section about cross cultural pollination between Louisianan musicians and Cuban musicians, the author makes an implication that clave is a direct result of this communication between the US and Cuba. In reality, African Americans retained many musical structures from their african descendents, including clave. It was not necessarily a result of contact with Cuba.
Also edited "This is a fundamental difference between the Cuban conception of clave and other rhythmic timelines found in African and African-Diaspora music, which often simply mark recurring cycles of time." in regards to "Depending on the style and musicians involved, the clave may play a role from a simple rhythmic decoration to an elaborate structural framework upon which the rest of the music must relate." While the latter is true, the former is not. Hint: Bembé, Candomblé, music of the Fon, etc... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.48.91.222 (talk) 07:22, 30 January 2007 (UTC).
[edit] Rubbish!!
The rhythm came from the eastern Meditteranean, not any "West Africans." The only reason music from there has clave is because the Moors brought it with them when they invaded a section of NorthWest SSAfrica. As for Louisiana/Cuba, there was a large amount of contact and that is where the commonality of clave came from. There were no "African-Americans," and the slaves merely imitated what they heard from others, adding a few flourishes here and there. Don't forget that the slaves were not pure SSAfrican either! More feel-good lies are not needed.JBDay 21:00, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Fact tag to West African statement
I've added the fact tag after the word "West" in this sentence:
Clave (pronounced clah-vay) is a rhythmic pattern or timeline which has its roots in West African music and was developed in Cuba.
This is because the clave rhythm is also found in Central Africa. I think it would be more accurate state that clave has its roots in Sub-Saharan African music.
I was also tempted to add a fact tag after "developed in Cuba." If you listen to traditional African music, you'll probably agree that the clave rhythm is quite well-developed. Perhaps "populararized by Cuban music" would be more accurate. DBlomgren 18:15, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Don't want to start a fight here, but
The image of sheet music displayed on the page is rumba clave, not son clave. The clave for rumba Guaguanco is always played in a 3-2 pattern, and the clave for son is played in 2-3. The accents are different between popular and folkloric music (for instance, in a folkloric pattern you might here, it can go: 12-1-12 Listen to Tito Puente's Pa' Los Rumberos, even though it is pop music he is using a folkloric clave, and you will see what I am talking about). It is true that the clave is different for rumba columbia, but this is also different for yambu clave. So, in truth, the rumba clave is primarily meant for Guaguanco. You might here a folkloric recording (Los Munequitos de Matanzas is a good place to start) and someone might be playing a Guaguanco clave to a yambu, but essentially, they are all different. Cancionista78 01:07, 8 August 2007 (UTC)Cancionista78
